nphatak

Hi there! Our products are not meant to whiten the overall skin tone - we are absolutely against bleaching for the sake of whitening the face or body. Our products are made to combat hyperpigmentation - which are targeted dark spots or scars that arise from hormonal changes and acne. In order to do that we have to include certain safe acids that exfoliate the skin (to remove spots) and prevent the overproduction of melanin (which causes the spots to begin with).

This response from an earlier comment might help:

https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=32668422&goto=item%3Fi...

You're absolutely right! Nice article - thanks for sharing

Hi there! Are you looking for clinical testing results for our products? Or something else? Just want to make sure I understand what you’re looking for. Thanks!

Thanks so much!

You are right that skin tone is a continuous spectrum. Dermatologists and skincare experts use something called Fitzpatrick Skin Types, which is a scale from 1-6, 1 being very light skin and 6 being very dark skin: https://www.healthline.com/health/beauty-skin-care/fitzpatri...

We have formulated our products with ingredients ideal for Fitzpatrick Skin Types 3-6 (medium to very dark skin).

Our goal is to provide the safest ingredients that are still effective in fading dark spots and protecting skin from damage. Studies show there are safer options than hydroquinone (azelaic acid, for example), so we have chosen to include those ingredients in our products.

I 100% agree. This is a very nuanced and difficult topic to discuss as a for-profit company. But I'll say this:

First and foremost, we want to spread awareness about skin bleaching/whitening practices. This includes its ties to white supremacy and systemic racism. It's astounding how few people know about it given how pervasive it is. Second, we want to provide safe alternative solutions for people of color who wish to fade dark spots and scars without toxic bleaching ingredients. Third, we are a business, so of course we want to sell product.

We definitely plan to support anti-racism more broadly; however, we are still determining where and how to best support with the resources we have. I'd love to hear any ideas you may have on this topic!

> What countries are the highest consumers of skin bleaching products

This isn't a ranked list, but skin bleaching is unfortunately popular in India, Japan, Korea, Mexico, Nigeria, Senegal, and many other countries in addition to the Philippines.

> Sunscreen is VERY bad for fish...

You're totally right about certain sunscreen ingredients being bad for the environment! In 2018, Hawaii became the first state to ban the sale of sunscreens containing oxybenzone and octinoxate, because they harm coral reefs and ocean wildlife. We do not include these ingredients in our sunscreen.

> Maybe instead you can work on a refill option with Sephora

Our serum is actually being produced in a refillable bottle. For operational reasons (it is very difficult to manage refills from an inventory planning standpoint), we won't offer refills from Day 1, but the plan is to offer refills when we have more sales data.

> they love their ULTA points

Sephora customers also love their Sephora Points :)

> Good job though, the world needs this.

Thank you!!

That is the plan! We too love the detail and transparency of Paula's Choice!

Totally agree there is a much more clear case for mercury being toxic/dangerous..

You're totally right! Sunscreen is indeed regulated by the FDA, but things like acid serums, exfoliators, creams, cleansers, and lotions are not.

Our concerns about lack of regulation are two-fold: (1) That products that contain very mild ingredients (like fruit extracts) are being sold to people with claims that are unsubstantiated. For example: Claiming to reduce dark spots, when there is little scientific evidence to support it. (2) That products with very harsh ingredients (25% AHA / BHA peels, for example) are being sold without much warning and education that they could cause irritation on certain skin types.

Sounds like it will work great for you!

Hi there! Traditionally, skin bleaching products contain mercury, hydroquinone, and steroids. Mercury is a toxic heavy metal. Hydroquinone in particular has been banned from OTC products - see article here for some of the reasons why: https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-w....

You're completely right that some of our ingredients are specifically included to fade/lighten (whatever terminology you want to use) dark spots, because that is an outcome our customers are looking for. However, we have chosen ingredients like azelaic acid and tranexamic acid that are much safer compared to existing solutions.

Regarding tyrosinase inhibitors like tranexamic acid: There is a scientific reason why these ingredients must be included. People of color tend to get more dark spots and scars because darker skin has a tendency to produce more melanin when irritated. So when you get hormonal acne, for instance, the skin becomes irritated and inflamed. The inflammation causes your melanin production to go into overdrive, resulting in the spot or scar that comes after. Including tyrosinase inhibitors like Tranexamic acid (at safe levels) is not meant to whiten overall skin tone. It is meant to prevent the overproduction of melanin which causes spots.

Hope that helps!

Thank you for asking great questions :)

I hear you and appreciate the candid feedback!

Hi all! I hear you - we certainly don't want to be a brand that wants to alter anything naturally unique about your skin (like freckles). Our products are more so meant to target acne scars, melasma (which occurs post pregnancy), dark circles and dark patches - all of which are forms of hyperpigmentation you are not typically born with.

Thank you!

And we are referring to the Fitzpatrick Skin Types, which are definitely not well-known. Great tip to clarify this better in our messaging.

Some more about Fitzpatrick Skin Types: https://www.healthline.com/health/beauty-skin-care/fitzpatri...

You're absolutely right - there are plenty of companies out there targeting POC and claiming to have the best ingredients and dermatologists. Once big differentiator is how we've curated the product line. We are both analytics people by background and actually scraped information from Facebook communities and Reddit threads discussing top skincare issues and product needs for POC. We found that hyperpigmentation was the number one talked about issue for people of color after acne. Next was sunscreen, then ingrown hairs, dark eye circles, deodorant, and hyperpigmentation for the body. By focusing on the actual problems and not just the marketing buzzwords (dermatologists, ingredients that trend well on Google), we've been able to take an unbiased, more scientific approach to product development.

Your wife sounds amazing! Last summer, Madhu and I tried to mix our own dark spot serum, and it turned into a rubbery clump. We learned two things: 1) The power of stabilizers and emollients, and 2) That we should probably bring on some qualified chemists and dermatologists. Thankfully we did :)

We do have plans to expand to Europe. Our Sephora retail relationship is specific to the US and Canada, so we are going to start there. However, Canada regulation is very similar to EU regulation, so expanding to Europe will be the easiest, most natural next step for us.

Your story is so common! I hope your wife is able to get her hands on a non-purple zinc sunscreen soon :)

Love these questions! Regarding zinc oxide, the limits in the US, Canada, and Europe are 25% Zinc oxide in any product (to avoid toxicity) and we are at 17%, which allows us to stay well under that limit, but still get the SPF 30 claim. You're also absolutely right that we are replacing oxybenzone, homosalate and octocrylene - all banned in the EU - which have been linked to cancer, hormone disruption, and skin allergies. Longer term, it is possible we will find another alternative to zinc oxide, but at this time it is hands down the safest SPF ingredient to be using. All regulatory bodies will agree.

Your question about iron oxide is super interesting! Like any tinted product (even artificially tinted like a foundation), there is always some risk to the product getting on and staining clothing or accessories. Because our product is primarily meant to be used on the face, we are less concerned about this. We may create another version of this product for body, and will need to be much more conscious of the possibility of staining. We also formulated the product to have a fast "dry-down" time, meaning it absorbs relatively quickly into the skin. After a minute or two, it should not be rubbing off easily on clothing or other accessories.

You're absolutely right and we have considered skincare products for men! A lot of our language is women-focused because they are still the majority of the skincare buying audience. But fun fact - skincare for men is one of the fastest growing segments in Sephora. And we tried to make our products as gender neutral as possible, so we aren't alienating our male audience.

That is a great question! There is definitely some variation to what will work on very dark skin versus more medium skin. Getting a prescription solution from a dermatologist is usually the best way to get something very custom to your specific skin needs. But we know not everyone can afford to see a dermatologist - and shouldn't have to go that route to see results. What we've done is created a retail solution that will show improvement on all darker skin tones. The speed and magnitude of those results could vary person to person.