Thanks for the additional recommendations.
272 karma · joined April 25, 2014
Thanks for the additional recommendations.
For other filters/ISPs, content can matter a bit more, but as a general rule for consumer mailbox providers, metrics are the primary thing that affects filter outcomes.
But you're right, Airflow is still the de facto standard, there's just increasing awareness of pain points with it.
"during Black Friday processed a whopping 254 million emails every hour and 3.3 billion during the day"
[1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2106516/suppl_f... [2] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2106516
But your point about "increased dynamic range" due to the editing errors is a distraction from your claim that Gordon applied a mastering limiter (which he clearly did). It creates ambiguity, because you're using it in a way that's not aligned with common usage in this context. That's part of why you're getting pushback.
In any case, if we want to try to answer the question of why the OST has low dynamic range (in the mastering limiter sense), I am somewhat receptive to ndepoel's argument - it seems reasonable that in-game tracks could be mastered more aggressively, and with lower dynamic range, than what would be appropriate for a proper OST release. Caveat: I haven't done mastering work in the context of game audio so I can't say if that's common practice, but it seems a little more likely than not.
These edits are a few hundred ms to a few seconds at a time, so it doesn't make sense that Gordon would refer to them as "brickwall".
(Another problem here is that evaluating a mastered waveform's dynamic range by eye is extremely subjective, and I would argue next to useless most of the time. The way these waveforms are shown in the post, we'd be hard-pressed to tell 9db (hyper-compressed) from 14db (pretty good) by eye. Professionals have software and metering to measure this; that's a much better approach.)
Bottom line: do these clumsy edits contribute to brickwalling? Really doesn't look like it, but I don't have the raw files to measure to know for sure. Are the edits good? Not in a million years.
Yes, mastering engineers work from track-level dynamic range (usually achieved with slow-response compression) to transient-level dynamic range (fast compression/limiting), and the range in between. When the context for this discussion is about "brickwall limiting", we're talking about very fast, transient-level compression, and your comment mistakes slower dynamic range for the transient-level dynamic range everyone else is discussing.
So, no. In this context, what you're talking about isn't increased dynamic range.
Incidentally, I'm pretty confident the same filtering engine runs both gmail and google workspaces spam filters. Perhaps with some minor differences.
If you're paying for an email service from a respected provider like Fastmail, they almost always have professionals managing IP range reputation, so gmail delivery ends up being significantly more predictable. Make sure you set up DKIM/SPF if you're sending from your own domain.
The reasons Gmail's filters tend to generate complaints that surface on HN is:
1) IP range reputation can frequently be a stronger spam signal than individual IP reputation
2) Most people aren't aware how much of an impact IP range reputation can have on delivery
3) There's no way to publicly check IP range reputation with gmail
Some commenters here also significantly underestimate the challenges and complexity of running spam filters at scale.Disclaimer: I don't work for google or fastmail.
But again: "If you find yourself in an IP range involved in a severe, ongoing, high-volume spam scenario that's affecting your delivery, then it means your provider is not managing IP range reputation, or not doing it very well, and you should vote with your dollars and move somewhere else."
If you find yourself in an IP range involved in a severe, ongoing, high-volume spam scenario that's affecting your delivery, then it means your provider is not managing IP range reputation, or not doing it very well, and you should vote with your dollars and move somewhere else.
As a rule of thumb, email-specific service providers tend to do a better job of managing IP range reputation than more general purpose providers like VPSes.
Reputation isn't public because then spammers game it and you get worse filtering outcomes. ISPs learned this the hard way.
I may also point out that "reputation scoring for netblocks" is the exact problem the original blog post was complaining about. He was trying to send from residential ISP and VPS netblocks that had poor reputation, and saw delivery problems as a result.
1. Spam filter behavior has changed because spam has increased in volume and sophistication, not because ISPs want to save money, or to eliminate competition. Some techniques that worked well 5 years ago aren't as effective anymore. One of the consequences of this has been a reduction in the value of IP reputation, from a spam signal perspective, particularly for low-volume IPs.
2. IP range reputation does matter. The increase in the value of IP range reputation, as a spam signal, has paralleled the decline in value of low-volume IP reputation. In practice, this means you need to either send enough volume to outweigh the reputation of your IP range (exact quantity varies based on a lot of variables, but as a very rough approximation, 1000 messages a day), or find an IP range with good reputation.
IP range reputation is not easy to assess, sometimes even for email professionals. So you can either gamble with a residential ISP IP, or a VPS IP, or you can find a provider that spends time, effort, and expertise on managing IP range reputation. The practical solution for most senders is the latter. Many of these offer a free tier, and many options are available among providers of all sizes.
3. The filtering behavior reported here is either misunderstood or misrepresented. First, no, no major ISP (Gmail, Yahoo, Microsoft/Outlook, icloud) is going to permanently block an IP range; filters are designed to be dynamic. In severe, ongoing, high-volume spam scenarios, you could see a 2-week block, maybe occasionally 30 days. But never "one strike".
Mail deletion without a bounce also cam happen, particularly at Microsoft, but again it's almost never seen for legitimate mail - that response is reserved for long-term, severe spam scenarios, where anyone reasonable would agree that a block is warranted. And, again, this is dynamic.
So it looks like OP is either exaggerating, or has been trying to send from IP ranges with unusually bad spam problems.
SPF and DKIM are pretty explicit in their RFCs that passing authentication isn't a sign the mail is legitimate. The presence of passing auth in a message does change how filters should handle it, but for most larger-scale production filtering systems (not spamassassin) that mostly ends up as "change the weight of certain reputation identifiers in the spam filtering inputs", more or less.
Perhaps this is bias from dealing with that kind of spam on a regular basis, but my current position is that a captcha needs to be present any web form which can even indirectly or occasionally result in an email being sent.
https://kb.timescale.cloud/en/articles/2752585-timescale-clo...