daniel957

For whoever downvoted me, calm down! dang@ and I had a conversation over the weekend on a different post about the HN community. I didn’t leave a comment today about it.

I asked him to show me data that confirms that the HN community is not what I think it is. I partially believe this is why he added the link in his comment since he added a similar link in his reply to me over the weekend.

And his comment today was basically what I said in the other post. The HN community is going to behave themselves on the millionth hate post about Electron or Amp urls. But they’re going to show their asses on these sort of posts.

dang@ basically agreed with me but then said “But still, no the community is fine.” You can’t use silly Electron posts to prove that point.

dang@: I still think you’re wrong about the HN community. It’s exactly what I said it was in my other comment.

I wasn’t provoked though. I literally asked to be downvoted in the GP and then when I was (as expected because of course HN is full of more racist and sexist people than you’re willing to admit) I copied/pasted the same comment and changed numbers while waiting for my builds to finish. It’s not as serious as you keep alluding to (i.e. “I understand Internet posts can be activating.”)

So like I said, I don’t mind calling out racist and sexist people on HN. You should try it some time. I already told you what you could do to nudge this community in the right direction. But again, I already said PG wouldn’t allow this.

Is there any data to back up your claim about this “small minority”? If I run a sentiment analysis on the most “charged” posts, will the analysis indicate that there’s a “small minority” of racist and sexist people on HN?

Sure, no one’s going to be racist or sexist on the millionth hate post about Electron or AMP. I understand that. Is that all you’re saying?

Have you seen how toxic the Blind app community is? There’s an overlap between that community and this one. Maybe it’s just the exact same “small minority” everywhere... (Sarcasm)

FWIW, to be clear, it’s not that I lack faith in only HN readers. My ideas/truths about the world extend past this community. HN comments are just a symptom of something much larger: a diseased system being upheld by people who just want to see the good in everyone and vomit rainbows.

Thanks, dang@. Although I wish that you and others affiliated with HN would just explicitly call out the racism and sexism that exists on this site, instead of telling me I’m just making things worse. I don’t mind doing the work for you. But I already know your team won’t. PG wouldn’t allow it anyway...

However, I don’t agree with you that it’s a small minority doing these things. I’ve been reading (and commenting) on HN daily since 2010 (under different accounts), so it’s very difficult for me to accept what you’re saying as fact.

Also, did you see my other comment about how I feel about the guidelines lol? (It might have been on a different article.) No offense, but I’ve seen your replies on other articles where you ask people to follow the guidelines and my immediate response is always something like “But why? What this person said makes sense.” For example, the whole “don’t tell people they didn’t read the article” rule...

I don’t mind being flamed by the “small minority” of racist and sexist commenters here. I’m used to it. I’m also used to people expecting me to “behave” myself.

Anyway, based on facts, Timnit Gebru is right. Jeff Dean lied (possibly unintentionally) through omission. Megan Kochalia should be fired.

Correct. It’s quite clear these are different guys even with the low-res images. So maybe OP was comparing the wrong photos.

Yeah, even with the low res images it’s clear these guys aren’t the same. They’re not even the same complexion with the guy in the license photo being several shades darker. (The darkness isn’t due to the low quality of the image.)

Are you sure you’re not comparing the wrong photos? I’m confident if you saw these two men stand side-by-side, you would not say that they look uncannily alike, unless you’re visually impaired.

I agree with someone else’s comments about the importance of observation. My brother and I worked at the same startup. I was full-time. He was an intern. After several weeks, another intern was some how confused and thought my brother and I were the exact same person. I mean sure, siblings do look alike. But some how she didn’t notice that one of us has light brown skin and the other has dark brown skin, one of us is a whole 3 inches shorter, one of us is a whole 40 pounds heavier, one of us wore glasses and the other didn’t, one of us has a full head of hair while the other one is balding in several spots with a receding hairline, etc you already see where I’m going with this. Yet for 3 whole weeks, she came to work M-F and thought we were the same person? It was an open office environment and we all sat in one large room.

<INSERT REASONABLE STATEMENT ABOUT TIMNIT GEBRU AND THE IMPORTANCE OF ETHICAL AI BUT GET DOWNVOTED TO OBLIVION>

This happened to me. On my phone and on my MacBook, I kept being asked to sign in. I was confused because I didn’t do anything that would require me to sign in again. I assumed that it was some security thing since I had been signed in on both devices for many months. After a while, I decided to sign in on my MacBook and then that changed some setting with iMessage messages syncing between devices.

I’m just asking you to explain what you originally said. I’m not asking you to explain my interpretation of what you said, obviously.

What were you referring to or what did you mean when you mentioned if statements and racists?

Friendly ping. I’m just asking to explain what you originally said. I’m not asking you to explain my interpretation of what you said, obviously.

It’s disgusting that you literally have two Google employees providing you the truth and you just keep saying “No, you must be mistaken.” I have eyes, I can read. I have a brain that functions very well. A lie is a lie is a lie. And even if lawyers some how manage to button this up, it’s still a lie in the court of public opinion...

EDIT: Sorry, I understand that you don’t have as much information as us and you’re just going off based on tweets and stuff. But come on. It’s insulting to be lied to like that. I hope you can understand that feeling at least.

I think (know for a fact) they were lies also. There was no huge list of demands.

Yes, he literally lied by omission. Internally, there’s an entire data analysis available for viewing. We have literally asked senior leadership why his email does not align with facts and we have not gotten a response. Internally, you can also read the exact feedback that Timnit’s paper received. Like I said, I’m assuming you don’t work at Google because even if you didn’t like Timnit and just think she’s a whiny researcher, there’s no way possible that you could say that Jeff Dean didn’t lie.

Besides the 2 week thing, he also misrepresented the “list of demands” to make it seem like it was worse than it actually was. So much so that I’m even surprised he was allowed to publish the email publicly.

I can’t imagine a single lawyer looked at his email, honestly.

Hypothetical but likely scenario below.

Jeff Dean: “Oh, you say she made a list of demands. Ok, let me put that in the email. Oh, you said there’s this 2 week deadline that she didn’t follow. Ok, let me put that in the email. What else do you want me to add?”

I believe the question you should be asking is _who_ told him these things. Please guess.

So what about the if statements and racism? Please elaborate.

I see! Thanks for the explanation.

I see. I assumed that order flow implied something about timing (i.e. we send these orders to this broker who executes the order in an untimely fashion causing an inferior execution price).

Person A places a trade which ends up executing at a certain time that causes the person to lose money.

Person B places a trade, then there’s some breaking news about the COVID vaccines and the market fluctuates, and then the trade is executed. Person B makes more money than expected because it took longer for the trade to execute and there was time for the market to change.

Doesn’t this also mean that, depending on the market, Robinhood’s actions could have benefited investors?

Why did you find the mention of Timnit Gebru ludicrous? The issues are closely related. In fact, I was _expecting_ the article to mention it.

Google tells Researcher 1 to re-word things in X way for Y reason.

Google tells Timnit Gebru to re-word things in X way for Y reason.

The X and Y are the same.

Based on the rest of your response, I believe you are having trouble reading the article in an objective manner. You say that it sounds like whining to you. That’s because you already think it is. You came into the article with this viewpoint about academics in corporations already established. This is why I also found your comment hilarious. You already think Timnit is a whiny researcher. You say this article is about whiny researchers. Yet it’s _ludicrous_ to mention Timnit in this article?

Also, Jeff Dean lied in his email. Maybe that’s why you’re confused about the Timnit situation. I’m assuming you don’t work at Google.

Correct.

But they don’t emphasize it or mention it officially during orientation. It was only mentioned during one of the smaller tech trainings facilitated by a longtime Googler. To paraphrase their words, “I’m not sure why we don’t say this anymore.”

So the statement that it’s really not a slogan anymore is quite true from my experience.

Why does your last bullet point make me feel like we read two different articles?

You edited your original comment... and you mean e.g not i.e.

Competition doesn’t imply rationality.

The dinosaurs thought the same thing about computers.... or not...

I played a lot of Rollercoaster Tycoon and always cleaned up the vomit. I put out the fires in the Sims and made sure the burglar didn’t burgle.

A person’s a person, no matter how small.

Your first comment made sense but this one just sounds like you’re making stuff up. Did you read the hypothesis? It’s been around since the 80s.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/the-worst-mist...

This brings to mind the hypothesis that humans during the hunter-gatherer phase were better off health-wise without the adoption of agriculture.