victorhooi

That's a mis-framing of the situation.

The issue isn't so much as the client is failing - but that it wasn't designed to handle their edge-case - and trying to sync 700,000+ items, or 700GB worth of files to your desktop is definitely at the edges.

Other desktop sync clients (e.g. Box.net or Dropbox) exhibit similar performance characteristics - e.g. Dropbox advertise a limit of around 300,000 files (https://www.dropbox.com/help/space/file-storage-limit). So this isn't something specific to us.

For us, I know there isn't a hard limit per se, but there are memory limitations, due to this being a 32-bit binary. So things like the user's environment, and the length of certain fields could also play a factor.

However, it is something that I know several smart people are chipping away at steadily - in fact, there's a new "Backup and Sync client" we announced a month or so ago, which is launching any day now. It's basically Drive Sync Client 2.0.

That's a bit disingenuous. It's also quite easy to take cheap potshots behind the anonymity of pseudonyms.

The customer has unfortunately left zero details with which to contact them - my details are on HN, anybody is free to PM me, and I'm happy to see what I can do internally.

We don't have a monopoly on clever CS people =). I'm pretty sure Dropbox and Box.net have lots of smart people working for them as well. (In fact, I have friends at Dropbox)

I'm not an expert in that specific bug, so I won't speculate publicly - but the memory issue is something that has seen steady commits over time from various people who are plugging away diligently at it. It's a bit of a moving target, and there is a tradeoff. The customer's case is a bit of an edge case, and at the extreme end of things.

In terms of the customer support side of things, I don't know all the specifics of what happened, so I won't comment further. However, my details are on HN, so feel free to PM if you want me to see what I can do internally.

The problem is unfortunately not as simple as a naive first pass might assume.

There's a lot of nuance involved here - and the fact you have to do bi-directional sync, with a reasonable expectation of "real-time" makes it tough as well.

Also - the fact that other desktop clients (e.g. Dropbox, Box.net) exhibit similar performance characteristics (e.g. Dropbox advertises a 300,000 file limit - I believe this customer was going on 700,000 files) would also probably indicate it's not quite that simple.

We do care, and it's certainly something we have been actively working on.

However, the fact that other desktop sync clients from other providers exhibit similar performance characteristics possibly indicate that it's not as easy to solve as a naive first pass would assume.

I don't profess to being an expert on this issue - but it's a bit more complex than simply "We don't work at X files". There's a bunch of factors, including the user's own environment, and lengths of certain fields that can affect what the exact limit is. Memory is a moving target.

Other clients exhibit similar behaviour - e.g. Dropbox states a limit of 300,000 (https://www.dropbox.com/help/space/file-storage-limit), and from my own informal testing, I know Box.net also exhibits odd behaviour as well.

(Disclaimer: I work for Google, but the above comments are purely my own).

If you read above - Dropbox does exactly that...

> https://www.dropbox.com/help/space/file-storage-limit

They claim a limit of around 300,000 files - this user apparently has 700,000 files.

The Google sync client doesn't have a hard limit per se, but yes, the performance does similarly decline after a certain point - it depends on a number of factors, but it's possibly at 700,000 that you would see issues. It should be able to comfortably handle 300,000 though.

In fact, most Desktop sync clients experience similar things.

I do know this is something we're aware of and are actively improving. In fact, we have a new Backup and Sync client that we announced recently and should be going GA shortly.

There's no details I have to contact this specific customer to see if I can intercede, but if anybody knows, please comment here.

(Disclaimer: I work for Google, but any comments above are my own).

I am on that team =).

I won't say much publicly, but if this is the issue I think it is (customer has a huge number of files, and is trying to sync it with a 32-bit client, and hitting memory issues), we are aware of the issue, and are definitely working on it.

It's a tricky thing to solve in any sync client - for example, Dropbox has a cap around 300,000 files (I believe this customer had 700,000 files?):

> https://www.dropbox.com/help/space/file-storage-limit

Note: The performance of the Dropbox application may start to decline when you store above 300,000 files.

Other clients may have similar limits. I'll see if I can find our docs on it.

Disclaimer: I work for Google.

I'm not sure what value that would add here...

The customer's issue seems to be that they have a very large number of files, and are trying to sync it with a 32-bit desktop client, and are hitting memory issues.

Dropbox themselves state this on their websites:

https://www.dropbox.com/help/space/file-storage-limit

> Note: The performance of the Dropbox application may start to decline when you store above 300,000 files.

I've done some comparisons across various companies sync clients, and it is a tricky problem.

(Disclaimer: I work for Google).

I hope so too =).

(I work on supporting Google Drive, and I also use it outside of work a lot as well).

Also - I saw in another earlier post you mentioned some issue about DriveFS and SecureBoot - feel free to reach out to me if you're still having issues with that?

It seems to be a bit of an internet meme, but as another poster noted, the original logic seems to have been lost, and it's now simply cool to quote the meme.

You say plenty of Google services have been killed - and you cite 3. But only 1 of those has actually been killed.

Google Reader was shutdown - this is somewhat personal, as I was a bit lover of Google Reader as well. However, there was 12 months of notice for the deprecation, there were provisions for migration/exporting all your data - and there were reasons mentioned at the time for why it was deprecated. Basically, the writing was on the wall for RSS for a long time before that.

Hangouts wasn't discontinued...in fact, I use it as my main chat application currently (both in my personal life, and at work).

GTalk is basically Hangouts, with with improvements - same contacts, same chat history, same platform. Everybody was basically just migrated across wholesale, and got some nice new features to boot (e.g. group video calls).

I really wanted to check out your website.

However, I think you just exceeded your hoster's bandwidth quota...(error message when I try to access it).

I just noticed you mentioned building more neurons - I thought I'd rea somewhere that the number of neurons was fixed at some point in teenagehood, and didn't increase beyond that?

Or am I misunderstanding that point?

(It would be pretty good if we could grow/regrow them).

Why do you think Google will kill Google Drive randomly...?

There's no precedent for something like that, and I can't see what motivation there would be to do such a thing either.

(Disclaimer: I work for Google).

Do we will allow paywall links on HN?

I know there was some discussion around this back in January, but I'm not sure if anything was decided?

To me, the two points are completely orthogonal.

Whether he's religious or not, or decides to pray or not - is separate to how good a pilot he is. (And honestly, sometimes these things are outside of his hands).

There are plenty of religious people who are good pilots.

There are plenty of non-religious people who are good pilots.

Unless you have some meaningful data, you can't really make a conclusion either way.

In terms of asking somebody to pray - I've never been particularly offended by that, no matter what the faith of the person. (I have my own faith). Unless of course they were asking me to pray for something that in itself is offensive - such as say, death to all Jews or something.

If they're asking me to pray for say, the safe return of their husband, or that their puppy dog might recover - I'd feel like a real jerk if I just said no, instead of just going, um sure? If they want me to pray with them in their language, sure.

You assert that:

> Travis himself has exhibited poor public behavior that was recorded by an Uber driver

Do you have any evidence of this, or is this hearsay?

If you're referring to the video I suspect you might be - have you actually watched it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejZL5Flwmjc

All I see if a bitter, vindictive man try to ambush the CEO of Uber on a night out - who then actually sits down and tries to explain his reasoning to him for several minutes, before giving up, and being "stuff this" and getting out.

You obviously have a bone to pick, and a lot of unresolved bitterness (which could be perfectly normal/expected, if you've had a lot of bad experiences/issues in the past as a woman). Hopefully though, you can see past that - I think we want the same goals.

My point isn't that sexism isn't there, or that I'm oblivious to how it manifests in the workplace - I'm not sure how you got that from my comment?

My point is that holding up totems as the single cause of sexism doesn't work. I feel that people just need to call it out when it happens, and we need to remember that ultimately, we are responsible for our actions.

Whatever happened to taking responsibility for your action?

If a man is sexist, or an ase - it's not simply because of the fact they drink alcohol or that they play console games - they can't use that as an excuse.

It's something they chose to do, or say etc.

It's right when people call it out - obviously there's a way to do that, that helps everybody. (see Donglegate for how not* to do it - it's really sad looking at the way that played out - because honestly, it could have actually gone the other way).

Also - your last paragraph is, I feel, quite...bitter?

I (and many of my colleagues) constantly try to encourage woman into tech. Heck, even my daughter - I'd love her to follow my footsteps into tech =). (My wife may have other ideas).

However, describing tech for woman as a dumpster fire, and saying that every woman has personally faced experiences of sexual harassment...that's pretty wow. Maybe I am really oblivious as you say, but my last workplace and current workplace had heaps of highly-respected women in technical roles, who seemed to be having a blast.

Yes, I have worked in workplaces where it wasn't the case and women were under-represented, but I see the tide on that turning.

For Google storage - you can get GSuite (https://gsuite.google.com/pricing.html) - $10 a user a month, for unlimited storage via Google Drive.

You can then mount the drive using DriveFS:

https://blog.google/products/g-suite/introducing-new-enterpr...

It's basically a FUSE filesystem built on top of Google Drive.

Alternatively, you can use the Drive Sync Client, if you want to just sync stuff back and forth (without a virtual FS).

You can buy a GSuite plan (https://gsuite.google.com/pricing.html) - which is $10 a user a month, for unlimited storage.

Do you have any sources for this? Or is this just speculation?

On the Google side - have you looked in DriveFS?

You install the client - and it gives you a virtual file-system built on top of your Google Drive.

Announcement here - https://blog.google/products/g-suite/introducing-new-enterpr...

SIgn up for the early access here - https://gsuite.google.com/campaigns/index__drive-fs-eap.html

Personally, I much prefer it to the old sync client, and have been using this for a while.

Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions

(Disclaimer: Work for Google).

My first point was that this isn't gender specific. My example was - I don't touch alcohol, I don't like ping pong, or consoles, or any of the things that people hold up as "bro" culture. But nor am I going to hold it against a workplace if they want to offer those things.

It's not a negative - it's just a thing.

For example - nursing rooms for mothers, or Muslim prayer rooms. I may not use them personally, but I don't see why it's a negative if they're there.

My second point - I have worked in a whole range of companies, from formal to very casual - and for me this is much of a muchness.

To your points.

You claim that we should be suspicious of companies that push "we're so fun". I don't see why it's a warning sign, any more than a workplace that pushes the "we're so formal" is a warning sign. You need to make your own judgement, based on actually interviewing there and interacting with people - and more importantly, one that fits your own ethos and preference.

Some people like formal cultures, some people like more jovial cultures - we shouldn't box them as gender specific, but just something that is unique to each person.

Alcohol likewise - that seems a personal issue, as opposed to something gender specific, or a company directive.

Like I said - I've worked in banking, and trust me, there's a drinking culture (among other vices...). But really, it's a matter of self-control. I never once felt forced to engage in that behaviour if I didn't want to. Perhaps I picked a good firm, or just had good mates.

My point is - whether there's alcohol available or not is a red herring.

And I don't think alcohol is somehow specifically a male thing - once again, I believe it's a personal self-control thing.

I don't drink alcohol - but if somebody is drunk, whether they're a guy or a girl - or whether the gender ratio at my workplace is 60:40 or 80:20 is irrelevant. They are drunk. I'm certainly not going to say - "Oh you're a women but you're drunk...well, that's OK then". Although to be honest, if you're drunk and not causing me any harm, meh.

Gender or alcohol isn't a shield to cover your behaviour - and that flows both ways.

I don't really get the reference to ping pong tables and free beer...?

Is it a metaphor, or is the commenter literally referring to those things?

I've worked in a range of places * Investment bank - German, very formal, very little perks * Options Trading Company - Dutch, laid-back, casual dress, free alcohol, free food, lots of games, lots of perks * Database Company - Tech startup, fairly well funded, casual dress, alcohol and some games (e.g pool). - medium perks * Search Engine Company (Current) - Tech, well funded, casual dress, free food, games and consoles everywhere - lots of perks

I don't drink alcohol - and I don't really play ping pong or pool. And I don't play console games.

But if I interview at a place and saw those things around, I'm not really sure I'd hold it against the place.

I mean, sure, other people can enjoy them, and I won't. As long as they provide some things I want, that's cool with me.

It sounds like a lot of what the commenter wants/desires are personal preferences, as opposed to gender things.

What's to say a girl can't enjoy beer? Or ping pong? (I studied engineering in uni - and there were girls there who could drink most guys under the table.)

I mean, I don't want/enjoy some of those things - but I'm not a woman. Sure, you get the occasional stupid comment from some guy when you order a cranberry juice at a work function instead of drinking beer like the "bros" - but that's happened what, once in 7 years? And I suspect (and took it) as more an off-key joke than anything malicious.

I just went to your website "paint.net" - it redirects to "Warren Paint & Color Co." - which appears to be a paint company in the US.

Did you perhaps mean getpaint.net? That's the download site for Paint.NET, a Windows-only paint program.

I did see an ad there at the top for "FileSendSuite" which does have a download button:

http://i.imgur.com/ed3CKGb.png

To me, it was reasonably clear the link was for FileSendSuite - but perhaps some other people could get mistaken?

If you hit the "x" in the top-right of any ad, you can report an ad (e.g. for being misleading/spammy), or simply say you never want to see that ad again (it gets filtered).

Do you have any sources or evidence for your statement "predominant distributor of malicious ads"?

If true, that would be pretty radical - but I'm unsure if you're just being hyperbolic or just re-hashing something you read somewhere.

(Disclaimer: Work for Google, but not in ads).

Commenting on mobile - but no, GCP support is not outsourced. I deal with and am good friends with some of those on the frontline for GCP support - that team works a few cubicles down from me, and from what I've seen incredibly passionate about providing stellar support.

Are you sure you didn't perhaps just talk to a Googler who happened to be Indian? It's possible I'm misreading tone on the go - but 1. Google is very multicultural, 2. As a non-white, I admit I can be a little touchy when people assume things about technical chops based on your race, or what accent your English is.

Regarding the fact you felt the person you dealt with wasn't well informed, that's not good to hear. Do you want to 1:1 details to me?

Also, I assume you've purchased GCP support right? That's a paid offering, and having dealt with them as an outsider, they're pretty decent (I mean, you are paying them...). I only ask because sometimes people post in public forums and assume they're dealing with official support. Our actual enterprise support teams are separate.

I think you've mischaracterised things a bit in your post - not sure if this is just because you're repeating what you read elsewhere? Anyhow, regarding the bullet points:

1. Google Wave was released an experimental consumer product, designed to combine the best of IM and email. According to the announcement, it was finally sunset due to lack of interest from the public. Personally, I was super excited about Wave - I even pestered an ex-Googler at the time to get me in on the preview. (I was in uni at the time). However, I had a lot of trouble getting other people to use it.

Did you personally use Wave yourself? Were you able to convert anybody else to using it?

Firstly - this is hardly apples to oranges. You're comparing a experimental consumer-oriented preview product, to an enterprise offering with SLAs. It would be like if we released a Star Wars game showcasing awesome new WebGL features - then decided to sunset it 12 months later.

Secondly - the project was open-sourced and then moved to under the Apache banner - an effort that in itself took significant engineering effort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Wave

I'm not really sure what more you want?

In the case of Reader - this is somewhat personal, as I was a big lover of Google Reader as well. From memory, it was deprecated with around 12 months of notice, there were provisions for migrating/exporting all your data etc. It wasn't open-sourced like Wave, but there were reasons behind that (I can't comment). However, it was hardly the worst handled deprecation - and to be honest, the writing was on the wall for RSS for a long time before that.

2. You didn't provide any specifics, so I'm not sure what event you're referring to.

AFAIK, the only major price change was when Google AppEngine left beta/preview, and became an actual commercial product, and Google added SLAs, and other things etc:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/Hluog1_a3n4...

The changes were announced at I/O that year (May), I believe, and the actual changes took effect in September.

Is that what you're referring to? Because even taken aside my Google hat, that seems like a fairly reasonable thing to do.

3. All of Google's enterprise offerings have support. I know, because I actually work in such a support team. For GSuite, support comes free as part of the product - you can contact us via email/chat or over the phone.

For GCP, there are commercial support packages available (https://cloud.google.com/support/) (similar to the AWS model).

> They've done it again and again. I'd say its the default way Google operates.

This is a pretty bold claim - can you cite any examples of this?

If this is something that personally affected you - please feel free to reach out to me. I can't promise I can fix everything, but I can definitely try to find out more for you, or see what I can do internally.

Disclaimer: I work for Google, but views expressed above are my own.

Regarding your first issue - I'm sorry to hear you had documentation issues.

There should be a huge "Send Feedback" widget at the bottom of every single documentation page:

http://i.imgur.com/MhWbY0W.png

http://i.imgur.com/Gu8GzLB.png (If you click it, it will pop up this modal form, which also allows you to just screenshot the offending part).

Did you try using this link on any of the pages that you found unhelpful, or bizarrely organised?

I'd encourage you to use this - as all of this feedback comes through to us via an internal system, and it does get reviewed (although I'm sure you can imagine the volume).

Otherwise feel free to reach out to me if you have specific concerns and feel more comfortable doing it that way, or you're unsure about the response you received. (Although quite frankly, I think the form is best, as that gets tracked, and anybody can jump on it).

Often, these types of blog posts only present one side of the story - so I would caution a bit of patience, to see the full story. This applies no matter what company is at the other end - whether it's us, Amazon, Facebook etc. In this case, I know there's a few technical details missing - I won't comment further on this specific issue, as far more qualified people than me are already on this issue =).

Many times, I've seen it's due to a misunderstandings, or crossed-wires regarding technical issues.

And yes, our support team does provide refunds in many cases - I know, because these sometimes get escalated to me to approve (e.g. if they're borderline). I think one was actually offered already in this case, but there may have been a misunderstanding or mix-up around that.

And yes, we have a "paid" support service - it's actually comes free with any GSuite subscription (even at the most basic level, which I think is like $5 a month). You can chat, email, or phone. I work as an engineer in the team that supports this.

For GCP (our cloud offerings), the support offering is a paid offering:

https://cloud.google.com/support/