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reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

Well, you may be on to something with this idea. I believe that with the exception of humans, all eusocial species have specialized reproductive castes, while the workers are sterile. Certainly some humans are willing to give up their own reproductive success so others in the group may be fertile. We have professional "adult entertainers" so maybe it's a small step to professional parents?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_eusociality

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

If that's the case, then your specialized economic role in society is purely as a professional breeder. Other people would need to see that you are contributing your fair share by raising your own family, and be willing to supply you with food, shelter, etc in recognition of this.

In fact people generally don't recognize this value. If I thought to myself, "That's a fair division of labor - I'll do the work, and instead of raising my own kids I'll support this guy's family" - my own genes would be removed from the pool pretty quickly (unless group selection pressure were so intense that this was the only way we could out-compete the neighboring villages).

On the other hand - if you were willing to raise my kids alongside your own (as a teacher or babysitter), there's a much better chance I'd see that as a fair exchange of value.

reflexiveon NHS England proposed action to cut sales of sugary drinks in hospitals

I agree the language you were responding to was unnecessarily emotionally charged ("tragedy", "addiction", suffering children). It's possible to advocate a radical position (near-complete elimination of refined sugar) without making the reader feel bad.

reflexiveon NHS England proposed action to cut sales of sugary drinks in hospitals

With such a strong, unequivocal, (strident?) statement, I'm honestly curious how you expect people to respond.

I would guess, the first time a person comes across this type of statement, they would simply dismiss it.

After hearing similar sentiments from 10 or 20 people, they may start to feel bothered and wonder if they're doing something wrong; if they ought to do research to justify their existing behavior.

Then they may come something like the New Nordic Diet, and find it has an aesthetic appeal; plus they are also primed to appreciate that it addresses the excess sugar problem. This offers a way forward.

Alternatively, they simply come to terms with the fact that other people disapprove of their lifestyle choices. It's just as important to be able to withstand social pressure as it is to eat healthy.

reflexiveon NHS England proposed action to cut sales of sugary drinks in hospitals

It's much harder to fuck up a salad or a grain/rice/nut thing

I suggest that the ideas of salad and grain have become normalized in our culture, and have taken a sheen of healthfulness beyond their nutritional efficacy. Some greens with a little oil and vinegar: sure. But I see people buy pre-packaged salads from Trader Joe's full of fried noodles, corn, croutons and sweet creamy dressing quite commmonly, apparently under the illusion this is more healthy than meat. And any kind of refined starch (wheat, rice) plays a huge role in diabetes and other modern diseases.

reflexiveon NHS England proposed action to cut sales of sugary drinks in hospitals

That makes sense, as offering a "vegetarian" menu is certainly cheaper and easier than actual high-quality balanced nutrition.

It always amuses me to see "vegetarian" used as a Pavlovian trigger to subconsciously suggest healthfulness. In fact, vegetarian food is often just as laden with starch, sugar, and trans fats as any Wendy's bacon burger.

There's a very similar phenomenon with "organic" - it automatically suggests "healthier", when in fact the pesticides used on organic crops may be even more harmful. More corporate green-washing.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt to your Florida cafeteria until I have a chance to try it, though.

reflexiveon NHS England proposed action to cut sales of sugary drinks in hospitals

Last time I was at a hospital and wanted to buy a snack from the cafeteria, nearly all the options were loaded with sugar (coke, ice cream, etc). I'd say that non-sugary options are being subject to "hospital menu policy restrictions" at this point.

reflexiveon NHS England proposed action to cut sales of sugary drinks in hospitals

Studies indicating fat contributes to heart disease have been discredited because the effect actually comes from excess sugar intake.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullart...

reflexiveon NHS England proposed action to cut sales of sugary drinks in hospitals

the case for food restrictions would be a lot stronger if my consumption of soda at a hospital caused sugar to be injected

There's no proposal here to restrict consumption. It's the hospital's choice what they want to sell at their own concessions. They can't sell every possible beverage, so it doesn't make sense to sell sugary ones at the expense of healthier alternatives.

Just like you need to bring your own cigarettes to the hospital if you want to smoke - don't expect the staff to provide them.

reflexiveon NHS England proposed action to cut sales of sugary drinks in hospitals

It would be great if they provided quality non-vegetarian food as well.

reflexiveon NHS England proposed action to cut sales of sugary drinks in hospitals

Meat eating diets(especially red meat) show increased risk of heart disease in so many studies it's a definite fact.

You have a rather naive definition of "fact" my friend.

reflexiveon NHS England proposed action to cut sales of sugary drinks in hospitals

introduced entire cafeterias that only serve fresh vegetarian dishes

Except that humans didn't evolve to eat a vegetarian diet and it isn't healthy for us.

reflexiveon NHS England proposed action to cut sales of sugary drinks in hospitals

Which is why smoking in hospitals is OK?

reflexiveon Low social status 'can damage immune system'

"It is not impossible to imagine society so conscious of its power that it could allow itself the noblest luxury available to it, – that of letting its malefactors go unpunished. ‘What do I care about my parasites’, it could say, ‘let them live and flourish: I am strong enough for all that!’ . . . Justice, which began by saying ‘Everything can be paid off, everything must be paid off ’, ends by turning a blind eye and letting off those unable to pay, – it ends, like every good thing on earth, by sublimating itself. The self-sublimation of justice: we know what a nice name it gives itself – mercy; it remains, of course, the prerogative of the most powerful man, better still, his way of being beyond the law." -- Genealogy of Morals, 2nd Essay, Chapter 10

"In the spot where the strong are weak, where the noble are over tender, there the parasite builds its horrid nest; dwelling in the sick corners of the great man . . . and it is just the highest species that harbors the greatest number of parasites." -- Thus Spake Zarathustra, Part 3, Section 56: "On Old and New Tablets", Number 19

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

I get far more enjoyment out of working to fix actual problems for actual people

I'm with you - the catch is, how do you know what are the actual important problems, except by how people allocate money?

We could each list a thousand problems that ought to be solved, but we can only work on one thing at a time. Thus we use a scarce resource (money) to communicate our actual priorities.

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

reflect on how trivially chance could intervene and turn you into a net negative.

All of us are a net negative some of the time. The question is, how many can be net negatives all of the time? 10x? 100x? One person supporting the entire rest of the human population?

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

I'm not arguing against Universal Basic Income - provided that, in practice, the proportion of people who elect to work for money remains relatively high.

I am arguing against the idea that we don't need money to create incentives.

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

Everyone could be happier doing something else. The main point is: if you want other people to maintain the apartment building where you live, drive you around on the bus, grow your food and deliver it to the supermarket - you need to be prepared to do something useful in return.

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

The reason those jobs haven't been automated is because automating a job is an expensive and difficult process, not out of charity for the people doing those jobs.

I've often thought about how meaningful my own work is, in the sense that: what if people just didn't buy my company's stupid product? Would anybody be worse off? Not really.

The only meaning I've found is the satisfaction of doing my job well, on its own terms - whether that's sweeping the floors at a burger joint, or making software builds.

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

Imagine if you could work on startup ideas and software projects simply because you were passionate about solving a problem or creating something, and not because of the money.

I've been in this position, and I've concluded: if you really have no financial constraints, you'd be daft to spend your time working on a startup, or solving the dull, pedestrian problems that are of such utilitarian concern to society.

If you're creative, why wouldn't you just be an artist and make things that are personally and intensely meaningful to you (but only to you)?

If you're an engineer, why wouldn't you just spend your time inventing new esoteric programming languages to implement Conway's game of life, rather than the drudgery of, say, making and debugging a robust automated toll booth, that could save society millions of dollars? That only makes sense if you're anticipating an eventual return to the monetized (wage) economy.

Or - start a family and invest your full time into raising and educating your own children - probably the most rational choice, with the least value to the rest of society.

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

Almost by definition, there are aspects of work that you don't like. The trick is to find meaning in your work so that you have the strength to complete it.

The post seems to be suggesting that we should just eliminate all of the "least desirable" jobs, which is a fine idea as long as you realize that the next tier of jobs will then immediately become the "least desirable".

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

It never made sense to me that "contribution to society" would be measured by money earned

Think of it this way. I am willing to give you money, if you make a significant positive contribution to my life. I am willing to participate in a collective to scheme to give you money, if what you do helps people in a way I can appreciate.

It's certainly a distorted signal, but better than no signal at all.

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

the value of work drops below the level at which a human can subsist on it

I agree with this analysis; the question becomes: how do we value a person's contribution to society, if not by someone's willingness to pay their wages?

I hope there is a solution in advanced tools for economic cooperation... imagine 90% of the population living off something like "GoFundMe for artists and educators".

If we can't or won't find such an answer, we then have the question: how many lives are we willing to subsidize who are contributing, by our best measures, a net negative to society?

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

Article has many holes in reasoning.

The measurable trends of the past half-century, and the plausible projections for the next half-century, are just too empirically grounded to dismiss as dismal science or ideological hokum

As NN Taleb points out exhaustively: social science puts too much faith in their models. "Measurable" trends? How do we even know what to measure, or that it's a trend? "Plausible" projections? What is the scientific measure of plausibility?

there’s not enough work to go around

There's a limitless amount of work - it just doesn't pay minimum wage. Every time you lower the minimum wage, it makes a new class of activities profitable.

you’ve just met an attractive stranger at a party, or you’re online looking for someone, anyone, but you don’t ask: ‘So, what do you do?’

This ubiquitous question may be asked and answered in the sense of "what are you passionate about" rather than "what is your largest source of income". It would be great if those co-incide, but that's often not the case.

reflexiveon What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

if you made that proposition to a fast food worker that he could do meaningful work instead of smelling like fried stuff all the time and always be worried about working enough hours for a crappy boss and no future, or to a janitor that he could help someone instead of cleaning pee all day, maybe they would do that instead

Are you saying that making food for people is meaningless? That cleaning doesn't help anyone?

Humans are always going to regard someone as being "at the bottom", just because that's how we think.

reflexiveon GNU Health

I'm sorry but you are missing a huge part of what GNU is about.

No, I don't think I am. GNU supports building businesses on free software. That's why the GPL does not say "free for noncommercial use only" like many other licenses. It's meant to be sustainable.

Using iconography that says "businesses are bad, uprisings in the street are good" is counter to the GNU mission.

reflexiveon The psychology of stress and burnout

This is especially valuable if you can develop a specialized skill to sell as a "product" over and over... I suppose I've found that a "can/will do anything" attitude is much better suited to employment/cofounding than consulting.

reflexiveon GNU Health

Based on the Emacs site, that would be the kind of person who's interested in `'electric-quote-mode' for using curved quotes as you type.'

reflexiveon GNU Health

That's like the old joke, how can you tell if somebody is vegan?

It's in their Twitter profile.