nova

History hasn't ended up yet. I think we're going to see how far the string can be tensed, and whether that multi-culti "solution" isn't the genesis of new strife. Things aren't looking bright.

> If you think freedom of movement is bad, do you think capital should also be controlled?

Actually yes, in moderation. I used to lean libertarian, but not anymore. But that's another talk.

> then the same should be allowed for people, surely?

Why? Capital at least doesn't behead you, people do.

I think that only westerners, with our pathological altruism, are silly enough, or brainwashed enough, to think that way. The rest of the world think of THEIR people first, as is natural. And any government has to take care of its citizens, not play world saviour.

But my point stands: if you emigrate, it is YOUR responsibility to integrate.

> because the daily mail is the only place they actually read about islam.

Surely Islamic terrorism existing in the first place is a factor to take into account. People aren't worried about Shintoist terrorism for some reason.

And why is that our responsibility?

This is outrageous. I were forced to emigrate due to war, poverty or prosecution and happened to be accepted in a country that is not my own, I would have to be 1) extremely thankful of my hosts for saving my life and 2) morally obligated to obey their laws and customs. This is basic morality.

> come down to treating each other as human beings instead of being afraid of "The Different Ones".

This is naive to the point of irrationality. The social unrest that is spreading through Europe is not _caused_ by yellow journalism (they just profit from it), it's driven by actual contact with radically different, incompatible cultures.

The same with immigration, then. Psychologically is even worse maybe, because instead of an overtly foreign power coming to conquer your land it's your own very government selling your society.

Damage control due to the recently increasing friction caused by massive immigration.

Not if taken so far as to become self-destructive.

> Not sure what "modern western ethnomasochism" is,

It means that here in the West we are (were) the best (in relative terms) but we think we are the worst, and wish for our own end.

> Can you really have one without the other?

Oh yes. Godspeed to Asia which will inherit the future, learning the good bits from the West without the suicidal self-flagellation.

THANKS.

Every human culture out there is responsible for wars and horrible crimes and destruction; primitive societies were no better (Hobbes Was Right (TM)), but only a few have built advanced and prosperous civilizations, and what is more, the West is basically the only which reflects on its past.

I'm over with modern western ethnomasochism.

It really lives up to its title. Suddenly computational complexity is not just a highly technical CS matter anymore, and the Chinese Room paradox is explained away successfully, at least for me.

0. Stop the dogmatic multi-culti cult, accept human nature (= we prefer to live with our kind) and strive for a world in which every race and religious group is able to live peacefully and prosper, in its OWN LAND, with its own way of life.

And that includes Europe.

Politics is so complicated that only a very simple model has predictive value, even with huge variance. I think a single axis order-disorder is the best we can do to talk in general terms.

No, that's what's going to happen in Europe.

Japan will just have to make some deep, technical changes to budget and taxes in a culturally and ethnically homogeneous civilization, not have to deal with social upheaval.

Yeah, it only gets replaced.

> More diversity, more innovation.

Sure, sure.

No opinions, only censorship.

Personally I worry that mere attaching some empty labels to an argument is reason enough justify censoring it.

It is. Spain is scheduled to elect the local Syriza equivalent in November.

Isn't precisely the problem that we can't have a rational discussion of this issue without people bringing out the X-word, the R-word, the I-word and others and calling for immediate stop of all criticism of the current situation?

But they actually work.

MORPHEUS: There is no such thing, Neo. The universe doesn't run on math.

(http://hpmor.com/chapter/64)