karianna

Hard agree on the data waste, noise to signal ratio is typically very high and processing, shipping and storing all of that data costs a ton.

Previous start-up I worked on (jClarity, exited to Microsoft) mitigated much of this by having a model of only collecting the tiny amount of data that really mattered for a performance bottleneck investigation in a ring buffer and only processing / shipping and storing that data if a bottleneck trigger occurred (+ occasional baselines).

It allowed our product at the time (Illuminate to run at massive scale without costing our customers an arm and a leg or impacting their existing infrastructure. We charged on the value of the product reducing MTTR and not on how much data was being chucked around.

There was the constant argument against approach of always on observably or “collect all data JIC”, but with a good model (in our case something called the Java Performance Diagnostic Method) we never missed having the noise

Usual caveats of “you should run load to see if it’s truly wasted”, but we do know that Java defaults are not ideal out of the box and so we analysed a ton of workloads on Azure and came up with this: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/java/jaz - better defaults out of the box for the JVM in containers at runtime.

I wonder if statistically (hand waving here, I’m so not an expert in this field) the SOTA models do as much or as little harm as their human counterparts in terms of providing safe and effective emotional support. Totally agree we should better understand the risks and trade offs but I wouldn’t be super surprised if they are statistically no worse than us meat bags this kind of stuff.

I’m being lazy (am an iStats user), has anyone here compared the two?

This particular patch was upstreamed to OpenJDK tip and will be part of Java 22 for all vendors. We have back-ported the patch to our builds of 11, 17 (and shortly 21), and offer those back-ports upstream. However, those back-ports won't always be accepted into the stable LTS branches, so sometimes they'll only sit in our builds for those versions (like this patch in our 17.0.8+ builds). We make that clear in our release notes etc and the code is always available on our GitHub under the GPLv2+CE license.

Yeah, we're not going to do that :-).

The Microsoft Build of OpenJDK is very much a build of OpenJDK that Azure customers can get free support for and over time get some Azure specific performance benefits from. Those performance benefits will be worked on upstream as well (like this escape analysis patch was) but there will be times where upstream won't want to take a patch on a stable LTS branch for example. We'll continue to be very clear when we have a patch that is not in the upstream code and it'll always be available on our GitHub under the GPLv2+CE license.

It’s a reunion for the worst of reasons but it’s a testament to crazy on of how many people he made feel awesome along the way

I had the pleasure of working with Bob for a couple of years in the Java space formalising the thinking around Inversion of Control and dependency injection which was eventually standardised as JSR 330. His clarity of thinking, clean architecture and code are still exemplars that I send new Java engineers to go and learn from.

He was kind, took his time to explain things in way that the day to day developer could understand.

I’ll miss you crazy Bob, heart goes out to your family.

Chris was also well known in the London Java Community and contributed to multiple events, conferences, bringing his expertise in a thoughtful and kind way to folks who were often 1-2 stacks above the runtimes and compilers space .

My conversations with him about JVM design, GraalVM and Ruby were some of the most memorable and fun times I’ve had running around the conference circuit.

Thank you Chris for unselfishly sharing so much with us and leaving the world a better place, you will be missed.

I’m off to go and hug loved ones now.

The folks who work at Adoptium contain many OpenJDK committers (especially from Red Hat and Microsoft) so it does contribute back (but you’ll see folks using their company addresses). I agree that can confuse folks

Minecraft ships with the latest 17.0.1 now (I run Java at MSFT, we supply their bits )

See Adoptium.net/members.html for participating groups and vendors. More than just IBM.

We'd love to see folks try and give both Jetbrains and ourselves feedback!

Fixed, thank you!

TLDR: This can happen, but is not done much in practice.

Most vendors use pretty similar build toolchains in order to maintain platform support baselines. Typically any improvements get made at OpenJDK and then filter back down to downstream distributions.

One of the things we're looking to do is to add Metadata to the release to make the exact toolchain transparent going forward.

Hi all, Engineering Manager for Java at Microsoft here - I can confirm this is the case, the two announcements were completely unrelated.

Big fan of this - we use it at AdoptOpenJDK (>100 repos, >60 active contributors) - it really helps you improve the engineering culture!

To be clear to everyone. Not commenting or promising on the future product direction of the Java server or Java edition (my group doesn't own the product or product direction in any way shape or form). There's just some stuff we can look at now to improve the status quo since a bunch of my team are also fans of the game :-)

Howdy, I’m the Group engineering manager for Java at Microsoft (yep we now do Java!). Our group is working on minecraft’s perf (starting with server) so expect a steady rate of improvement over the 2021

As rzwitserloot commented in Reddit's Java community:

Microsoft. This release is supporting a competitor in the OS space, who is shifting away from an ally on chip hardware, who also makes consumer electronics in direct competition with your hardware division, for a programming language which is in direct competition with your preferred language.

It's been a strange but good year :-)

MSFT Employee here who came in via last year’s jClarity acquisition (yes Microsoft now has a Java Engineering Group!). Oracle change the licensing terms on its Oracle JDK (which was the default JDK most of the world used) to something more commercial which some folks thought was it communicated well enough.

There are a ton of free in beer and free in use options. You can look at adoptopenjdk.net for the broadest community led one or azul Zulu for the one that’s been around since even before Oracle made their change

Https://www.adoptopenjdk.net/about.html gives a better picture

One of the Red Hat engineers (Andrew Haley) is the lead of jdk8u but that’s officially him as an individual as opposed to RH the company

Yeah my bad - that ticket is assigned to me, should get it done this weekend

This was a bug of sorts, we’ve engaged the Java team at Microsoft to get this sorted. Disclaimer - I run the Java team at Microsoft

No ranting from us :-). We've not been granted access to the TCK and we continue to hold an open dialogue with Oracle on this. We hope to get this resolved down the line!

There is for Windows and ARM32 - we're looking at Linux x86 (32bit) but not 100% sure we'll be able to deliver that.

Although no TCK we do run > 100,000 open tests, including many popular open-source libraries, frameworks and languages. We're very comfortable standing behind the quality of these binaries :-).

We hear you - it's being worked on for 11+. 8 we're not so sure bout as the OpenJFX version there is unmaintained

We're chatting to the FreeBSD and OpenBSD folks about this.