Chris Seaton has died
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I spent the next few years at high school and sixth form trying to sit near Chris in lessons and talking to him on MSN Messenger and ICQ incessantly about programming, he taught me a lot and set me on a path to choosing computer science as my degree, I just copied him to be honest.
I’ll miss you Chris
I still remember a thread which I have bookmarked somewhere, where you have the lead of JVM, Graal, TruffleRuby, JSC, V8 and Spidermonkey along with another compiler expert arguing ( or in a heated debate ) about Dynamic languages. And when ever you have compiler related submission on HN, you will see him contribute his expertise on the subject.
He has been a valuable member of the Ruby and HN Community. I once joked "I am a simple man, I see Chris Seaton, I Upvote :)." I still remember I felt honoured when he followed me on Twitter.
He will surely be missed by many.
R.I.P
Sorry, not trying to be a jerk, but unless there is actual comparative evidence, I don't think one can just assert that high achievers struggle in getting help any more than others.
As far as an actual citation: "Studies from Kjølseth et al. (2009), and our own findings (Szücs et al., 2020), suggest that older adults who die by suicide or have late-onset (mostly high-medical lethality) suicide attempts are often high-functioning throughout most of their life, and characterized as controlling, rigid, high-achievers, also high on orderliness (a conscientiousness subcomponent)."[5]
[1]https://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/01/us/higher-suicide-risk-fo... [2]https://www.deseret.com/1988/9/13/18777827/30-percent-of-tee... [3]https://www.depts.ttu.edu/research/scholarly-messenger/2016/... [4]https://everymindatwork.com/high-achievers-and-mental-health... [5]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7655527/
aggression turned outwards --> anger
aggression turned inwards --> depression
i wish some of these super smart people weren't so afraid of the harmless 'woo' that costs next to nothing, like read some old 70s book on primal scream into a pillow or try a radical keto meat diet or weird mental re-framings from people who are total quacks
The internet is full of 60 plus years of this stuff since the 60s, books and lectures and diy reprogramming you can find for free.
random 'outdated' books where 80 percent is fluff i've stumbled on one page of a random client story that just cut through time and space to reach me at that moment. I can't even remember the book title but I still remember the page layout, reading a paragraph at 2am and started bawling after feeling numb all year.
I've pieced together little bits of insight this way and each feel like growth and knowing some secret unconscious part of myself better. You never know what will crack the ice and get thru to you.
like who cares about evidence when that has gotten you nowhere in matters of the mind?
Hell, you can build a life going from placebo insight to insight if that's what it takes to keep on, why would that even be different than the lives on 'normal' people chasing hollow consumer goods?
it's still a life of trying things out to better know yourself and your world, which is plenty meaningful
The Netflix Series 13 Reasons Why seems pretty unrealistic except maybe it represents some unusual cases. In that series there are clearly people who cared about her but she was missing the caring of certain people (and I don't fault people for feeling bad because one particular person or a few doesn't like them). A lot of people don't have much loving attention at all though.
I just can't comprehend how someone can arrive at the decision to commit suicide, especially when you have a wife and children, and to then tweet about it. The human mind is an odd thing.
"The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."
I've never been seriously suicidal, but I did have a period of bad depression/OCD where I experienced what I later learned is called "derealization", where I felt cut off from everything in life and as though I was viewing the world through frosted glass. Once I received help and left that state, I was struck by how much it felt that everything I cared about was already gone. I can only imagine there's a similar feeling when people die by suicide.
Thankfully I found medication and life changes that worked, especially moving to a sunny climate. I also recommend sobriety, it stops a vicious cycle with depression and dependence.
It’s a disease. Chris died of suicide.
It's hard to imagine if you haven't been there, but in the moment you are seriously thinking about it, your mind can truly convince you that your family/spouse/kids/friends/work/church/etc will all be better off without you, even though that is virtually never true. Don't trust your mind when it tells you things like that.
- David Foster Wallace
I learned through that experience that the mind can be so fragile. My situation was induced from over the counter medicine. My heart goes out to individuals that have to deal with something like this due to mental disease… it really is something that affects everyone one way or another.
I also have a friend who committed suicide a few years ago. He had 2 kids but as his other friends described, he had his demons since he was a kid. I wish I could have helped him more.
http://tenderlovemaking.com/2022/12/07/in-memory-of-a-giant....
We really have lost an exemplar of how to be a member of a community based on knowledge and learning.
I hope he continues to be an inspiration to people in the Ruby world for many years to come.
> As a college dropout, I’ve always felt underqualified. Embarrassment about my lack of knowledge and credentials has driven me to study hard on my own time. But Chris never once made me feel out of place. Any time I had questions, without judgement, he would take the time to explain things to me.
I never once felt like he looked down on people who knew less than him, he just saw it as an opportunity to share what he knew with them.
In an industry that can sometimes be dominated by arrogant certainty, or people trying to demonstrate their brilliance, he was a breath of fresh air.
I met Chris at a couple of local Ruby meetups in Bristol when he gave talks. He was an extremely smart, but also very personable guy. He seemed to really love what he was doing and relished the opportunity to explain it to people and share what he knew. He had a knack for explaining things really well in a way that never patronised when talking to people who were not experts in his domain. He had a real love of communicating what he knew to other people and his passion for his projects was infectious and inspiring.
He was younger than me (mid 30s?), but managed to pack an immense amount into that time. He was one of those people I've met who I've immediately thought "I need to be more like that". Genuinely inspirational. His death is a real loss to the community.
U.S. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 800-273-TALK (8255)
National Suicide Helpline UK 0800 689 5652
His HN profile was also just his name https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=chrisseaton
I wish the best for his family and friends over the next few months. This will be a tough holiday season for them.
You never know what is going on in someone's life and no clue what was going on in his but I think working in tech is harder than people recognize / give credit (and may not have any bearing on Chris, I am not trying to speculate).
Please talk to someone if you are feeling hopeless.
U.S. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 800-273-TALK (8255)
National Suicide Helpline UK 0800 689 5652
People have a lot of misconceptions, sometimes for good reasons (it makes life easier to endure). It's a lot like the pushback on #metoo or #blacklivesmatter or <almost anything linked to traumatic experience>. They want to make it your fault because then its not something they have to think about.
I think depression is mostly orthogonal to where you work, although stress may make it worse.
If anyone's gone through or is going through something similar, I highly recommend "The Noonday Demon." It captures much of the subjective experience of someone going through a depression, and how weird and frustrating the experience can be for everyone involved. https://www.amazon.com/Noonday-Demon-Atlas-Depression/dp/150...
My father did that to us kids after divorce, and our relationship has never been the same.
(For those curious, he didn't hurt himself, just became an angry, sad, drunk yearslong drag on us all).
In fact, you probably have touched someone (if unknowingly) in a similar manner. People who decide to go, very very often leave behind a heart shattered to pieces - unknowingly.
1: https://988lifeline.org/current-events/the-lifeline-and-988/
He lived within an hours drive from here. Which somehow makes it worse. This is not exactly Silicon Valley and people of his caliber are not everywhere to talk to.
He was pretty high up in the Army Reserve as well as his day job. It is humbling how much some people fit into a short life. My thoughts to his family and colleagues
Not really sure what to think now.
"My fantastic job with Shopify meets my physiological and safety needs, and the job is rewarding and intellectually stimulating (not many people get to work on their PhD work for so long with a team they’ve built around them and I’m very grateful.) But then what? What are you doing to feel alive and to know that you matter? How do you fit into something enduring and bigger than yourself? The Army challenges me every week, and those challenges better me and make me happier. I know that people are depending on me, and that if I don’t turn up and lead my Squadron then nobody’s going to do that for me."
Like you, not sure what to think.
However, I recall my absolute lowest and the first time I entertained the thought to end it, the 'it' was specifically what it felt like to be in my body. It wasn't a matter of self-worth, it was to stop pain. The strongest reason I could come up with to wait for it to pass was the pain it would cause my mother.
So, I don't know.
You got hold of the right reason. And sometimes we need to hold on to that reason - the pain we would cause to others - for dear live. So to speak.
Chris was not just a great technologist but also an officer and a gentleman. Rest in peace, Sir.
I didn't know him but recognized the name from HN.
Chris seemed to be _everywhere_ and was always generous with his time, even to complete newbies like myself. He certainly set the standard, as one would expect from an Army officer. I'm not exactly sure what his experiences were like in active duty, but we lose way too many vets to mental health issues. If you know a veteran, consider checking in -- this time of year is particularly tough.
I hate when they say "passed away" -- here was a man in his prime, just the other week sharing knowledge of compilers at a conference, taken from the world.
Chris helped me frequently on the GraalVM slack, and it was nice to see his face in the comments of many of the threads here on HN that had to do with compilers and compiler optimizations. I will miss him.
Even without knowing of him, this is incredibly tragic and my condolences to all of those affected.
It starts with:
There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest— whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories—comes afterwards. These are games; one must first answer.
Absurdism is a great way to live life and understand that nothing is worth killing yourself for.
Know that he's had a huge impact on the Ruby community and the world.
I knew him online for years, but met in person for the first time last week. He spoke fondly of his ongoing trip and spoke with passion about tech projects.
The lunch was at a taco truck. He ordered a meal made of fries covered with various taco toppings. I remember pickled red onions at the very top. He left before the group was finished saying he had to go pair with someone. I felt uplifted about the interaction. I even brought it up to my spouse and my visiting parents when I got back from the conf.
I can only guess how he was feeling at the time, he seemed busy but cheerful.
Depression is a full blown pandemic. For example, in the US in 2021, there were approximately as many suicide attempts as there were COVID deaths. It is so fucked up and so pernicious.
We (rightfully) encourage folks to seek help, but the very nature of the illness makes it difficult for them. Let's all also do our best to recognize the signs of folks struggling so that we can be there for them - to help them recover when it's so hard for them to even reach out for help.
“They can't be dead: I just spoke to them” is a common response to death. Unfortunately, death can be rather sudden.
The Ruby community has lost some fantastic people. Chris, Jason Seifer, Steven Bristol, Jim Weirich, James Golick, and Ezra Zygmuntowicz all come to mind. RIP.
Years later I worked closely with him on helping him get his 3D printer company off the ground. Sadly though, he died right in the middle of a very challenging time for him and his company.
The Ruby community has certainly lost a lot of people like Chris and Jim (yet another selfless giant) and Ezra.
The only consolation I can think of is how many more selfless people are in the Ruby community still. And not just the Ruby community, but so many communities just like it.
It never hurts to reach out to people, even if you think they won't respond. If you appreciate someone, tell them. It doesn't need to be over the top praise (unless it is over-the-top-praise-worthy).
It can be simple. For example, I just sent this to someone who I was thinking about just now: "<name>, thank you for taking the time to patiently respond to comments in the PR I submitted. You helped clear up some confusion that I wasn't even aware I'd introduced when describing <the implementation of a complicated thing>. You freed up at least a few hours of my day, which I'm really grateful for."
One thing Rubyists were particularly good at, though, was rapidly adopting new methods of sharing ideas, such as screencasting, git, blogging, Twitter, etc. so a lot of Ruby and Rails ideas spread more quickly than they might have from other communities. Currently the Rust and ML communities seem to have this sort of edge.
My sentiments and thoughts for the family and friends.
I saw him present in Manchester at our ruby meetup, and later online.
We interacted a little about jobs at Shopify. But there didn't seem to be a part-time option for me. Something I need due to some health issues of my own.
I wonder if we as a group of ruby loving people, and the wider tech industry, can learn from this? I don't know.
It seems no matter what was said, the outcome would have been the same? I guess we'll never know. It's likely that those who worked with him, and were trusted, will perhaps say more intime. I hope they do not feel bad in any way. But perhaps there's aspects his family and close colleagues will be able to share intime, when things are less hurtful so we can learn a little from how to help others in this situation?
Big hugs to those close to Chris. And big respect to those writing amazing blogs in his memory.
Hugs to all.
Does anyone know how to recursively save his entire website to Wayback Machine?
I submitted https://chrisseaton.com, but it doesn't appear any of the child pages are being archived.
It's hard for me to express how much this title hit me when I read it. Like many in this thread, Chris had an enormous impact on my path as a programmer and I'm quite sad that I never got the chance to properly thank him. RIP, Chris
Every issue is an investigation. It's normal for the breakage to be in some place non-obvious. Don't beat yourself up over it or let it hold you back from opening issues in the future. If you can provide a good reproduction you'll speed up the time to get to "oh here's the bug" or "not my problem" which is really helpful to maintainers.
> I wish I expressed more gratitude. I'm grateful for everyone in the Ruby and OpenSource community
There's never enough in hind site. Let's all pay it forward a little more
It's so unfortunate he was not. RIP.
My conversations with him about JVM design, GraalVM and Ruby were some of the most memorable and fun times I’ve had running around the conference circuit.
Thank you Chris for unselfishly sharing so much with us and leaving the world a better place, you will be missed.
I’m off to go and hug loved ones now.
I also worry about the hidden pressures of praise. A overly critical inner life can interpret it as “I like you as long as you are useful” which is of course not the truth.
I have appreciation for the creators in my life, even when they no longer create.
I think that's the problem with depression disease: no matter what most people tell you, your brain will find a way to use it to dig the hole deeper.
My wife has battled with minor depression and anxiety her whole life. I learned that more than trying to say things to cheer her up in the moment, i was more useful by looking for treatment.
It's a terrible disease.
no matter what most people tell you, your
brain will find a way to use it to dig the
hole deeper.
"They're just being nice."
"This good person's kind words and actions are wasted on a piece of crap like me. If I wasn't around, they could 'spend' that kindness on somebody who actually deserves it. I'm hurting the world just by being here."
"They're lying, and now I feel worse because they're lying"
"I hurt so bad inside, and it hurts so bad to wear this mask and graciously accept the praise"
"I hurt so bad inside that I wasn't able to accept the praise graciously, and now I actually feel even worse because I've been so rude to this nice person who praised me"
Yeah. It's a struggle.
Even when you logically know those things are false and it's "just the depression talking" it's very hard to break out of those thought patterns.
(Which is why practicing positivity and gratitude -- keeping a gratitude journal, etc -- is actually an effective part of treatment for me. I'm not sure if it's because of specific neuronal pathways being reinforced by specific repeated thought patterns or what but, from a practical perspective, I try to treat positivity like a muscle that I need to exercise)
That's me after most praise: "you say you like me because the stuff I can do will help you, or because you have some unstated aim to take advantage of me, or because you don't know that it could have been so much better". I don't know when, but at some point any expectation of honesty in praise just went out of the window. Because of that, obviously, I also don't praise people as much as I should, because I expect they would react like I do - with obvious repercussions on social interactions.
The mind can be a right bitch.
The new research/trend is to try to praise behavior rather than outcomes (or in addition). The other bit is to focus on their actions instead of it's impact on you. For example "I'm proud that you won that baseball game" places the focus on me and on the outcome of winning. Versus "I saw you really focused out there in the outfield, I know getting distracted between bats is easy and you've come along way."
It's a very new way of speaking for me, but the more I practice it the more natural it comes. My family aims to "catch someone in praise" a few times a day. We also celebrate celebration. I.e. if I say something nice about someone, then they turn around and say "you get a point for giving a point."
> The mind can be a right bitch.
Too true :(
Versus "I saw you really focused out there
in the outfield, I know getting distracted
between bats is easy and you've come a
long way."
example: "I see you working on those reports! There are a million of them coming in every day, and you're cranking them all out yourself."
You don't even necessarily need to praise them, per se. (Although honest praise is of course very cool) Just the act of letting them know, and noticing is super powerful.
A few years ago, I was managing the most impactful engineer I've ever been around (and I've seen a lot great engineers in my 30+ year career that included stints at several startups including my own, going through a a pretty big IPO, working at a FAANG as it came to dominate it's area, etc.). It was her first job and the team was stacked with high performers. We were directly responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars a year in revenue. Three weeks into her career, everybody on the team was going to her when they couldn't figure things out. Just a phenomenal mind with a capacity for dealing with technical complexity and finding business value that I would have previously thought impossible. Of course that led to a lot of praise from me and everyone else. Every time I praised her for an outcome, she withdrew further, eventually getting to the point that she wouldn't say anything in one-on-ones other than short answers to direct questions. A few months in, the CEO (without telling any of us beforehand) used a slide from one of her design review presentations to inspire the company with the kinds of technical->business wins we were now achieving as a company - it devastated her, making her want to change careers. A month later, she tried to reject a significant salary increase.
Nine months in, she made (and corrected) a minor technical mistake. I mentioned it to her in our next one-on-one. As I did, she leaned forward and her eyes got big. She peppered me with questions until she understood my perspective on it from every angle. The more I spoke about it, the more she perked up. After seeing this response, I decided to try to find deeper "criticisms" to bring up with her. She was so good that it was HARD to find anything at all. Eventually I thought of what level she'd be at in ten years and framed things as "here are skills you have that you're not fully exploiting to be as impactful as you could be." It instantly turned our interactions inside out. She went from zero trust in me as her manager to complete trust in me as a life mentor in ~30 minutes.
Later I asked her why that worked and she said it was one of the few times in her life that she thought someone understood her faults and still valued her. It's just what you're saying about letting people know you see them and what they're doing, not just the outcomes they are a part of and how it affects you. I'm lucky to have learned so much about engineering, management, and life from my interactions with her.
One of my heroes, Fred Rogers, was very good at this 50+ years ago, saying things like "I like you just the way you are."
I'm retired now. I delayed my plans around retirement until she moved on. One of the few things that would pull me out of retirement would be the chance to be led by her on a team doing work I feel passionate about.
There's a Netflix documentary on Stutz (called "Stutz") with Jonah Hill that is quite good although abbreviated on its coverage of "the tools".
When I was 11, I got my black belt in Tae Kwon Do. A couple years after that point I grew disillusioned with continuing to practice martial arts altogether because I realized that the achievement didn't make me happy. In some ways, it made my depression worse at the time and it just took me a few years to figure that out.
Music has consistently sustained me since then. It's both an endless journey of self improvement and an activity that's possible to purely enjoy in the moment. It takes so much of your brain at once to perform music that you literally cannot be stuck in your head with your own thoughts, instead you reach a state of mind where there is no ego whatsoever, just total flow-state focus and the experience of the present.
The real kicker is that the cure for this is not free either.
I'd say the cure is to starve the broken part of yourself that needs achievement to justify itself. To do that, you must consciously break the cycle of over-achievement and focus on well-being as a higher value over achievement. This is a lot of work, as you're patching up the hole that achievement was trying to fill, and it is slow going.
Eventually you can have a better relationship with achievement, but there's a cost: you no longer see it the same way, and other people can sometimes detect that about you. You'd choose your own well-being over achievement most times. Because it broke you once, it is harder to have the same hunger for it you once did. And that's good: it means you learned and you changed. (Sometimes I think the fact we can make these big changes at all is a profound miracle.) But, people can see that as aloofness, detachment, or disengaged. It is none of those things. It is kept at arms length the same way a former alcoholic might deal with a drink: extremely cautiously and deliberately.
It will forever be complicated.
You can never go wrong just honestly and vulnerably saying, "I appreciate you because...", and telling someone how what they did really help you out, or let them know you appreciate them because they made a difference to you, you're just sharing how you feel sincerely. Whatever happens, you said what you could at the time.
As for accepting expressions of gratitude, people may have ulterior motives that you may correctly suspect, in which case...be happy, a frenemy has revealed themselves to you, and the fact that they see you as important enough to their interests to try to manipulate is its own form of compliment...or they may simply be imperfectly trying to express how much of a difference you made to them, like everybody else... Either way you can choose the meaning you take from it and find something to feel happy about or use.
It reflects poorly on your if you always suspect other people saying nice things to you, for one you have such a low opinion of others, and of your own impact, but also you miss many chances to find something good. For examples: someone may have been trying to connect with you, because they appreciate you, but by suspecting them, you pushed them away, and hurt them. May as well at least try to see the good and give a chance to it: you may be helping someone more than you know by doing so.
Makes me wonder if this is a property of the interaction mechanism. Let me set an unacceptable maxprocrast and leave this place alone.
RIP my fellow dude.
For learning purposes, anyone knows what was his major cause of frustration?
I know you just want to know if any major points could stand out to bring some understanding, and they are probably some, but it's important to treat it as a might be relavant, but always small, piece of a the vastness of one's mind can be.
I do insist on being classy and respectful, particularly for the family members, but I wish as a society we would talk openly and honestly about these issues instead of high opacity implications.
Yes, I did not want to mean that the right way was silent mourning. I merely wanted to express that full understanding is not achievable, and that the truth is lost with the life, and lost forever. To me, everything said with this idea kept in mind is respectful, and from there talking works.
Can you elaborate on what you mean here? Are you saying that every suicide is unique and out of respect for the dead we should not try to understand it?
Suicide isn't because of frustration. Everyone has frustrations, most don't kill themselves because of it.
Keep in mind many people on HN (incl. me) don't even speak English as a first language.
Weird, when you step back and think about it isn't it? If you're agnostic/atheist at least.
It might be the last thing that saves them when they are not in their right mind and have lost all hope and perspective. In that moment anything that can be done to protect them should be done because there is always hope, even if you can't see it right now.
Things do change.
Not sure if this is true in all cases and what the outcome for these people is after time passes, do they still feel depressed or are things better for them.
But, if that is the general experience, then it makes sense for society to stigmatize the action.
The View from Halfway Down
The weak breeze whispers nothing
The water screams sublime
His feet shift, teeter-totter
Deep breath, stand back, it’s time
Toes untouch the overpass
Soon he’s water bound
Eyes locked shut but peek to see
The view from halfway down
A little wind, a summer sun
A river rich and regal
A flood of fond endorphins
Brings a calm that knows no equal
You’re flying now
You see things much more clear than from the ground
It’s all okay, it would be
Were you not now halfway down
Thrash to break from gravity
What now could slow the drop
All I’d give for toes to touch
The safety back at top
But this is it, the deed is done
Silence drowns the sound
Before I leaped I should’ve seen
The view from halfway down
I really should’ve thought about
The view from halfway down
I wish I could’ve known about
The view from halfway down
Is the belief that "hell is just over the hill" rational? Or is it a self-fulfilling prophecy? Maybe that belief is in itself one of the major causes of that "hell"–and, despite thinking that you "know" that, not genuine knowledge at all, rather a harmful delusion
I’m also not suggesting that hope cures depression, I’m suggesting that hope prevents suicide. Basically, why kill yourself if there is hope? Depressed people aren’t being rational but then neither are optimistic people, each with their own distortions of reality. However, they’re not delusional, you might call it a state of hyper-realisticness that actually distorts through the destruction of possible branches in reasoning. An optimist thinks “it’ll be sunny tomorrow“, a depressed person thinks “it won’t be sunny again, ever”. Neither requires reasoning for their position snd can easily dismiss any given, but it can be done. Reason with an optimist and you will deflate them and they will react badly, usually we avoid this because it has little upside. Reason with a depressed person and they will also react badly but the upside is that it may sow the seeds of their remission.
Regardless of all their defences, distortions and dismissals, if they can be convinced there’s hope it will keep depression from being suicidal.
"chemical imbalance" is a myth – https://slate.com/technology/2022/08/ssris-chemical-imbalanc...
In fact, I think it is a very harmful myth. When people become falsely convinced that their depression is due to a "chemical imbalance", it encourages them to see their current mental state as something fixed and unchangeable – and then that false perspective helps to sustain and worsen their depression
To be pithy: why must death justify itself, but not life?
What is the difference?
As I recall, around 80% of people have the optimism bias. The rest are prone to depression.
On the other hand, Chris Seaton was apparently done with it. I think that's his prerogative, and he handled it gracefully.
I think a lot of people would feel differently about someone who takes his own life because of a terminal illness such as cancer, where it's seen as a way to end up in the same place while avoiding a lot of pain and suffering. "Death with dignity." So why don't we feel the same way about someone with painful, debilitating depression? We don't really understand how to cure depression. We have some drugs that help some people, analagous to what narcotics do for people in physical pain. But we don't understand how to cure depression, as we don't understand how to cure cancer. Maybe someday we will, but what does that do for the people suffering today, who just want a way out?
For instance, here, value would be added by stating what are the actual causes of suicide - or even adding research that supports your point even if you don't want to talk about what the actual causes are.
For those of you who knew him in real life, did this carry over? Or was I misreading him, as is so easy to do online. I don't ask this flippantly. I lean in the literalist direction myself, and often am unduly frustrated by the imperfections and inconsistencies of the world. Life's not easy if your mind demands a world that makes sense. It makes me wonder if this outlook was part of what pushed him over the edge. Thoughts?
I think there's a lesson there. Comments are just that, comments. Try not to read too much into them, they are severely lacking in the necessary context. Assume good faith in the absence of something very explicit that suggests otherwise.
One of the HN rules, and one that I think would vastly improve on line discourse if others followed it. I have to go on FB from time to time (since that's where a community I follow is based) and it's horrifying how quickly and often things spiral out of control, when the protagonists are probably pretty OK people IRL.
Even if someone is being a jerk, responding in this way can often make them pull their head in.
I wish I was better at this.
> Seems that the testimonials from others on here show that he was nothing but lovely
is because people behave like this:
> I don't think that making observations like that on a post like this is terribly appropriate though.
This should be worthy of a Hacker News black banner today.