annie_muss

The thought of having kids brings up really complex feelings for me. I feel like the biological clock is ticking louder and louder and yet I barely have a career to speak of. I live with the constant burden of ADHD and have always struggled to hold down a job. The optimist in me thinks that maybe things will improve in the future and I should just take the plunge and figure things out. The pessimist worries that I'm already at capacity just waking up, cooking, cleaning for myself and kids would push me over the edge.

Not great. I've been trying to get into a real "career" track software job for the best part of a decade. I study, work on side projects, got to events regularly. And now the job market is even worse. I'm starting to feel like I've missed the boat. I wonder what would've happened if I had managed to get a job with chances to progress, learn and improve 10 years ago. I dream of earning 6 figures, people make it sound like it is so easy. I'll pick up any tech stack, go into any industry, move around the world, whatever it takes.

There's a lot of advice here about using technical means to block youtube. If that works for you and solves your problem then fantastic. I am genuinely happy for you.

However, I suspect it won't. It never worked for me.

Firstly, any blocker you setup yourself you can take down yourself. You might find that it works for a day or two but then you feel really awful and binge youtube even more than normal.

Secondly, blocking tools are a tacit acknowledgment that you have given up and can't control yourself. "My willpower is just too bad. There's no way I can control myself. I need a tool to do it for me." This is the opposite of the feeling your want to cultivate. You want to feel more in control of yourself and your actions and be able to direct your attention accordingly.

Unfortunately, there are no silver bullets. There is no one little trick that will solve everything for you. That said, there are things you can do that will help a lot.

Get in touch with your emotions. Find out what triggers send you to youtube. Here's an example for me:

Think about important essay that is due soon --> worry and dread about academic performance --> watch youtube to forget about it.

This is probably happening in a blink of an eye. Probably so quickly that you don't even notice. If you can start noticing and naming your emotions you can deal with them more constructively.

Positive emotions can be triggers too.

I'm so excited about this new hobby I'm into --> I'm going to research it on youtube --> 3 hours watching videos about painting but not doing any painting.

Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with this. But if you can notice the emotions you can start to redirect them and work with them.

This article really makes sense.

I think back on my past and all the evil actions I have taken have all been fed by very low self-worth and insecurity.

When you think of yourself as below everyone else, trying to bring them down to your level with malicious acts can feel like quite reasonable. You're "punching up" so you can feel a sense of righteous justification.

It's only looking back that I realize I wasn't nearly as weak as I thought.

I have spoken to a few therapists. I usually felt pretty good after speaking to them, maybe for a week or so but slip back into my old habits. Unfortunately, where I live therapy is not covered by health insurance so it's hard to afford.

I think this is a helpful reframing, and I have spent time in my life trying to eliminate any possible issues: Improving nutrition, exercise, socialization etc. But my ability stay focused and work on tasks seems essentially random.

I was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago as an adult. I take medication for it and try my best to apply strategies but it is hard going. I wrote down some simple todos at 9am this morning but it's the end of the day now and I've done maybe 30 minutes of focused work and the rest browsing the internet.

The confusing thing is sometimes I have days when I do manage to do work, but I can never see what I do differently on those days to other days.

The problem is I know that I am completely addicted, but I cannot stop. I feel like I'm the alcoholic drinking a bottle of vodka a day. I have tried to give up many times but I just can't crack it. Every time I have a good day the next day just slides right back into addiction. I probably average around 5-10 hours of pointless screen time a day (scrolling random youtube clips. Researching items I will never buy. Fantasizing about jobs I can never get. )

I have tried all kinds of blocking software and strategies. Blocking software, however elaborate, never seems to make a different. You find one way or another to get around the block and then after a while turning off the block just becomes part of your muscle memory. The most extreme thing I tried was cutting off the internet to my house and going back to a dumbphone for 6 months. For sure, I probably had less screen time. But I also spent many hours sitting in the station using the public wifi or watching hours and hours of pointless television.

This is a really tough nut to crack. I think there is probably no technological solution to it.

My worry about any new system, todolist, app etc is that when the initial busy of energy wears off I'll be back to square one. The novelty and energy that I have at the start is impossible to maintain, but I need novelty to engage with tasks

When I see stories like this I always wonder "How did you get and keep jobs at meta and Pinterest if you have a procrastination problem?"

I procrastinated so badly I could never apply for jobs. And the jobs I did get I lost quickly due to the same procrastination.

Perhaps it's not a success story, but I have a definite improvement story.

I find accepting and making peace with my problems (paradoxically) helps improve the problem.

I am going through a particularly low dip right now. I haven't done any work in the last 4 days. I tried a 4 minute pomodoro timer yesterday and 2 minutes in I was already completely off task.

In the past I would panic, worry, think "Why me and my terrible executive function?" or "What if I can never do anything again ever". Instead I am accepting that this is the issue I have and keeping a curious, open mind to possible solutions. I'm trying out taking longer breaks, changing up my workspace, body doubling, nutrition, timers, not trying to do anything etc.

I'm sure it will swing back the other way in its own time.

Of course I would love to be able to be consistently able to work, but that is not a reality for me. In the same way I would love to be able to run 100m in 9.6 seconds but that is also just not realistic.

Other comments here are good too: eat well, sleep enough, exercise regularly. This is a good baseline to have but these things alone never fixed my issues.

It's a constant battle and there are no silver bullets. Here are a few things that have helped me:

* Eat, sleep and exercise. Have you ever snapped at someone you love because you were really really tired? You have less ability to control your emotions if you aren't on top of these things. When task planning it's easy to think only about the task at hand, but scheduling time to rest, go for a walk or have a snack can be helpful.

* Putting some 'distance' between myself and the task, however small or artificial. Often, I start writing an important email in a text editor instead of an email client. It just feels less 'real' and that reduces my anxiety and resistance. I wonder if doing a practice version of a task could help?

* Adding some kind of physical motion to a task. For example, if I'm sitting at my desk and I need to fill in a form, it always seems easier if I've come from just tidying up rather than another stationary task. Making tasks more physical seems to help.

* Naming the reason why I'm not doing a task can sometimes help but other times not. Saying "I'm feeling overwhelmed with this task" is 50/50 on whether it'll help or make me feel even worse.

* Usually when I'm feeling really stuck I know exactly what I need to do. I know that I haven't opened that email in my inbox. I could easily spend a week thinking about it hundreds of times but never actually doing it. I don't think a reminder or a nudge would help me, because I'm already constantly reminding myself. The times I find reminders and nudges helpful are when I can complete the task right then and there with little resistance. For example: If I put a drink in the freezer to cool it down quickly, I always set a timer. When the time off the task of removing the drink has no stress or anxiety, so I always do it. If I don't set the timer I am very likely to forget the drink. I have tried setting reminders and timers for tasks that I procrastinate on but it never really works. If a task is overwhelming you now and you delay it by 1 hour or 1 day, it's probably still going to overwhelm you later.

I don't want an ADHD todo list app. I want something that to help manage my emotions while completing tasks.

For me there are three major emotions that get in the way of task completion: excitement, boredom and anxiety.

Excitement is usually for some other task. I'm working on my tax return and I think about upgrading my washer/drying. Suddenly I'm researching all the different types, the best deal on one, the history of the washer/dryer. It might be a task on my to do list somewhere, but I was driven to do it by the excitement.

Anxiety is a tricky one. If I'm writing something like an email anxiety often gets the better of me. What if this isn't the right way to do it? What if it comes off as rude. This ties in to perfectionism too.

Boredom is usually overtaken by one of the other emotions, but sometimes it appears on its own. I've got to input these numbers into some old, janky piece of software. It's probably not that hard or long of a task, but it feels so pointless. I'm just wasting so much time doing this task when I could be doing something more efficient and more meaningful.

If you can solve these emotional issues then pretty much any todo list app (or just a notebook) will be fine.

I took a properly administered IQ test as part of my ADHD diagnosis. It was eye opening.

All through the test I felt like I was crushing it. Spacial reasoning, pattern recognition, memory tasks. When the results came back I got 135 on spatial reasoning but 89 on processing speed and working memory.

Looking back on my life I realize I had always made up for limited working memory with systems, mnemonics and other techniques. When you've lived your whole life with a limitation you can have a huge blind spot. You've never known what it's like to have "normal" working memory.

I have tried many times to start a blog. I usually manage to eek out one or two articles before getting utterly stuck.

I have lots of things I want to write about but I feel completely anxious about putting my ideas out there, even got relatively simple, straightforward things.

How do you push through the anxiety and actually put things out there?

Before I was diagnosed my average time keeping a job was something like 6 months. I would get a job, feel elated and enthusiastic about the work. After a few months I would start to struggle, feel too anxious to ask for help, spiral into depression. My work output would get worse and worse. The final nail in the coffin would be my superiors asking about my performance. I would usually quit or just disappear because I could take the shame.

Don't underestimate how bad ADHD (and related issues like anxiety, depression, rejection sensitivity) can be.

Now that I've been diagnosed I use a wide range of tools to improve my performance:

* Automation for start and end work tasks. I have Keyboard maestro open and arrange multiple windows on multiple monitors so that at the start of the work day I can press one button and get started. Or if I've gone off task I can close everything and simply hit one button to get back on task.

* Timers. I use many timers to remind me of important things and timebox chunks of work. I really like smart speakers as they are a low distraction device. I also use Horo on my computer and a garmin smartwatch with multiple vibration timers (great if you are in a situation where you need a timer but can't disturb others).

* Task separation. I use different folders and browser profiles for different tasks. The browser bar color changes to remind me which 'mode' I'm in. Downloads automatically go into their respective downloads folder so when I'm hunting for something after the fact it's usually much easier to find.

* Emotional skills. By far the biggest impact. Better than any tool, gadget, app or aphorism. Slowly learn to forgive and accept yourself even when you don't do anything. Spent the whole day watching youtube by accident? Fine. Didn't reply to that email for 6 months? It happens. Learning to see your big, uncontrollable emotions before they completely overtake you is also very valuable.

Overall ADHD is a disability and will have large effects on your career. You can take action to ameliorate some of these effects but you'll generally be behind a similar person without ADHD.

If you have poor impulse control then you are more likely to be involved in crime as well as having intense, chaotic personal relationships. Both are correlated with homicide.

I was diagnosed in my thirties. I knew something was wrong much earlier but I never had any idea it was ADHD, let alone a diagnosis.

Above all: treat him as an individual. There are a lot of stereotypes about ADHD that don’t really match how I experience it. Images of kids running around, can’t sit still, loud and disruptive. None of these were true for me. I was swimming in my own imagination all the time. I’m also extremely sensitive emotionally. I still have to be very careful managing my emotions. One unkind phrase can send can send me spiraling into depression or blind with rage (thankfully I am able to manage it a lot better these days).

Another tip is to work with the ADHD, not against it. If something isn’t working then change it up. Novelty can be a big motivator for people with ADHD. Maybe this means you have a new calendar system every 2 months? Accept it, run with it and enjoy it. Sure, it might be easier to use the same calendar system but that doesn’t work with the condition.

Focus on controlling the micro environment, not the macro environment. Should he go into medicine, law or engineering? Any of those could work well. But the way you succeed in any of them is having the right micro-environment for studying. Short bursts, flashcards, games, active and interesting ways of learning. Again, when something doesn’t work, change it up.

Finally, be and friendly, loving and guilt free as you possibly can. When I was younger I piled the guilt on myself. I was constantly upset that I wasn’t studying enough, wasn’t succeeding, wasn’t following the right path. All this guilt just led to avoidant behavior and worse outcomes. Whenever anything goes wrong try to face is as a curious scientist. What went wrong, how can we do it better next time? The guilt never helps.

How did you go about finding an ADHD coach?

To add to this: ask people around you what they think you are good at. Often you will find they mention things you never even thought about. You don't think about it because they are so easy for you that you can't even imagine someone having trouble with it.

Your own innate strengths can be a huge blind-spot.

I'm a similar age. I was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago. Things got a lot better after my diagnosis.

Firstly, work with your health care providers. ADHD medication works well, even though it doesn't really feel like it works. (Even now I feel like my medication doesn't really do anything but if you compare my life before and after it's night and day).

Reading your post, it looks like you're having a rough time. Job hunting isn't easy, especially when you have ADHD. Rejection hurts for even the most well adjusted people. When you're feeling low it's very easy for your thoughts to spiral out of control. Try to notice when and how this is happening. For example:

Me: "I'm 36, I'm too old to ever get hired!" Also me: "Is it true that no one over the age of 36 gets hired for jobs? Do I know anyone in my life who got a job over this age? Oh, my uncle was laid off 5 years ago and he got one."

There are many different cognitive distortions like this. You can google to find examples of them or work with a therapist to help notice them. Try reading "Feeling Good" by David Burns, he has lots of good examples to draw from.

It might seem a bit counterintuitive, but being kind and forgiving of your shortcomings can often make you more effective and productive. Imagine procrastinating for 4 hours in the morning and getting nothing done. It's easy to think "Damn, I'm worthless. I just can't focus. I can't stay on task. I'll never get a job at this rate." Now you feel awful. When you get back from lunch, you're much more likely to procrastinate to distract yourself from these negative thoughts and feelings.

Instead, try accepting and forgiving yourself: "I didn't do anything this morning. It happens sometimes. I'll try to just doing a little this afternoon and see how it goes.". It's true, you might still procrastinate, but you have a better chance of getting to it now that the negative emotions are smaller and more manageable.

I also recommend Taking Charge of Adult ADHD by Russell A. Barkley as a good handbook, especially if you've been diagnosed recently.

Emotional control really is the *the* skill. When I was diagnosed with ADHD I learned that emotional disregulation was a part of it.

I had spent years trying to work out why everyone was so especially unkind to me. I thought maybe I was autistic (I'm not), or that I was giving off weird social cues. Turns out that I just have trouble regulating the regular ups and downs of normal emotional life.

Often people talk about task-completion and procrastination when ADHD comes up. That's emotional disregulation too. You sit at a desk, open your algebra book and start working on problem one. As soon as it is slightly difficult the uncontrollable emotions run wild. It feels awful. Now scrolling a couple of youtube videos takes your mind of it. You get a little break from (what feels like) world ending emotional pain.

I still struggle with this years after my diagnosis but the first step to improvement is to label the emotions you are having, when you have them.

Would you say the same thing to someone with schizophrenia to stop hearing voices? Or someone who was suicidal who took drugs for depression? Where do you draw the line?

Like it or not, to survive in the modern world you have to be able to consistently complete tasks. It's not just for the rat race. You need to be able to keep promises to friends and loved ones to maintain your relationships. Even just finding enjoyment with your hobbies needs a certain level of perseverance.

I was in a similar situation. Couldn't keep a consistent job, couldn't keep a long term relationship. Jumped from one thing to another again and again. Struggled with poor emotional regulation (but hid it very well).

I was diagnosed with ADHD in my early 30s and things started to turn around. I've kept up the same job for longer than I ever had before, I'm in a long term relationship and I am better able to handle the general ups and downs of life. Things definitely aren't perfect. I still have to handle forgetfulness, distraction, lack of focus and so on, but getting diagnosed helped me immensely.

Talking to medical professionals of all kinds can only help you. Maybe they find some simple, fixable cause. If they don't, you haven't really lost anything.

First of all: It gets better.

I have to say that because when you are having career trouble made worse by ADHD it seems like nothing will ever work. It can be a dark and lonely place.

Now, onto the advice.

When looking for a job, focus on the "micro" environment, not the "macro" environment. You are much more affected by the particular tasks you have day to day, you direct team and even your office than the overall mission or culture of the company. Game dev company vs finance company? Your ADHD doesn't care.

Look for jobs and positions with constant change. ADHD feeds on novelty. If you are working on something different every month then you get a lot of novelty. Maybe that means consulting. Maybe that means a technical support position in a large company. Remember, think micro not macro.

Try to find a team/manager/mentor that is friendly and supportive. If you're anything like you're probably hyper-sensitive to negative feedback. Even polite, reasonable negative feedback can feel like a dagger in your heart. Aim for a team that is overly caring and overly careful. Some people would scoff at this idea and complain that it gets in the way of an efficient team. You are not some people. You are you and need to work with your ADHD not against it.

See if you can find work with lots and lots of incremental small wins. This could be fixing many small bugs while working with clients, or writing code in dev team that does TDD all the time. The small wins will build your motivation, confidence and general good feelings.

The restrictions on ADHD medicine where I live are incredible.

I have to have a special registration card, separate from any other medical insurance or ID. When I get fill the prescription I must present photo ID, can only get a very limited amount etc. If my medical details insurance change for in any (for example an address change) my ability to fill the prescription is instantly cancelled until those details are updated (even though for any other medication this is not the case. For other medication there is a simple way to handle these changes retroactively, but not for ADHD medication).

Multiple times I've been without medication because of these traps. Not only that, they are rare and unusual enough that health care professionals don't know about them and sometimes give you incorrect advice.

I have a huge toolbox of techniques I use to keep on top of my productivity. I think I am an averagely productive person, which is a huge achievement for me as I struggle with ADHD.

Having systems for things helps immensely. Use a calendar, write things in the calendar as much as possible. Use some kind of to do list to keep track of what tasks are on your plate.

These systems will work well 90% of the time. Be mentally prepared for the 10% of the time when they don't. Accept that you might use the system "wrong" like writing a todo in the calendar because it will remind you of something important at the right time.

Reduce distractions with blocking software, but don't try to use blocking software as a replacement for self-control. Chrome plugins that let you access YouTube but hide the "related videos" feed are great. You can click on a YouTube video, watch the content and then stay on the task. Trying to lock yourself out of all possibly distracting sites usually just results in going to even more extreme lengths to circumvent the block. It's very "binge/purge cycle".

When planning, try to predict road blocks, both internal and external. We often write plans with the perfect happy path in mind. If your plan is to jog to the gym in the morning, what will you do when it's pouring with rain? If you plan to study programming all afternoon but your neighbor decides it's time for a 5 hour drumming session, where will you go? You want to try some new hobby, what will you do when you feel anxious driving up the first session? Getting good at predicting and planning around problems is a fantastic skill. You'll start noticing your emotional state more and noticing how it affects your productivity too. Nervous? Anxious? Angry? They can all throw you off your game (this is the biggest part of ADHD in my opinion, you're dealing with a storm of emotions that you aren't very good at handling when trying to complete necessary tasks. Many procrastination behaviors stem from this)

As for tools: if in doubt, use a pen and paper. A small notebook and pen is an incredibly versatile and flexible device that is also cheap and low distraction. If you don't have a good reason to choose something else, start with pen and paper.

Lots of good advice in this thread. Get checked out medically. Sleep apnea, ADHD, other things could be causing this.

If not, stop looking at productivity blogs and videos!

It's simple when you step back and think about it: You had a problem (productivity/organization not as good as you want), you tried a solution (reading/watching for productivity tips) and you noticed the outcome (your productivity didn't change).

It isn't working for you, so try something different! Try it, measure it, reflect on the result. Keep doing this forever.

There's no magic method, no magic pill, no organizational system that will just make everything work and be easy. But watching videos and reading articles feels good. It feels like you're just one step away from being totally organized and never having to stress about work again. Of course, that isn't true.

I have taken a properly administered IQ test. I scored 135 in one area and 89 in another. My main issue is I have very poor working memory. Luckily, we have technology to compensate for our deficiencies.

* I write everything down on calendars, to do lists, planners etc. * I have a smart speaker in every room so I can capture pieces of information as soon as I know about them. * I use many different kinds of timers to remind me of tasks, or to switch tasks from one to another. * I use checklists to help complete daily processes.

The best thing you can do is acknowledge your weaknesses, reflect on situations where you struggle and find specific techniques or processes that improve the outcome for you. It won't happen overnight. Good luck!

The real measure is the level of harm. That's it.

My ADHD meant I couldn't hold down a job or relationship. You lose your job enough times and the depression that follows is inevitable.

That said, I can imagine a Dustin where I had stumbled into a different career, a different family situation. Then my ADHD might not have caused enough problems to be a disorder.