wtmt

Late reply: yes, if someone wishes to challenge a High Court order, they’d typically appeal in the Supreme Court. There are avenues for “review petitions”, but those don’t work well. The backlog of cases across all the courts is really huge.

Add to this the APAAR ID — which is linked to the biometric based Aadhaar number — which is being coerced by colleges and schools to obtain and share with them. Centralized surveillance combined with poor (or close to no) security measures never had it this easy as it has been in India over the last decade and a half. The government itself violates the privacy of residents and puts them in danger through these.

On paper, APAAR ID and Aadhaar are optional. But on the ground, things get very hairy and difficult if you do not submit yourself, get those and provide those everywhere. As a school or college student, imagine not being allowed to appear for important exams or not getting your certificates without providing these.

Culturally, there is no concept of privacy and there is no sizable movement for privacy in the country. Privacy intrusions are easily dismissed as “western concerns”.

Wanted to do a TL;DR of this order:

* Some company’s employees receive some inappropriate emails from a ProtonMail address.

* They file complaints and approach the court to identify who sent the emails.

* ProtonMail does not respond to queries about its users from foreign authorities unless the Swiss government directs it to. [1] It didn’t respond to this request.

* The court decides that blocking ProtonMail in the entire country will solve this problem and such problems forever.

[1]: https://proton.me/blog/india-block-proton-mail (key text snippet below)

> Under Swiss law, Proton is not allowed to transmit any data to foreign authorities, and we are therefore required by law to reject all requests from foreign authorities that are addressed directly to us. However, Proton is legally obligated to respond to orders from Swiss authorities, who do not tolerate illegal activities conducted through Switzerland and may assist foreign authorities in cases of illegal activity, provided they are valid under international assistance procedures and determined to be in compliance with Swiss law.

That’s not how the law works in India. Any ruling by an Indian court on matters applicable to the entire country will apply to the entire country. There’s only one Supreme Court in India, and it cannot (and in many cases will not) handle all the cases relevant to national interest.

I’ve heard good things about Kagi a lot on HN. I already pay for some services (like email [1], web hosting, etc.) instead of using free/ad supported services.

But I find Kagi to be quite expensive for multiple people (in a family setting) who are not in the first world and/or cannot dedicate such a budget just for search. If and when Kagi becomes larger and is able to reduce its costs and prices, I’ll consider it.

I find DuckDuckGo with Google as a fall back kinda adequate. With duck.ai from DuckDuckGo providing different mini LLMs for some kinds of queries, it gets even better.

[1]: For additional context, I consider something like Fastmail to be expensive in a family setting with multiple people needing their own mailboxes.

In such cases in the U.S., where judicial orders are not heeded, what are the consequences for the executive (and the agencies it controls) and what are the remedies practically available (something that can be put into action) for the judiciary for contempt of court?

To what extent can the executive get away with disobeying judicial orders (without filing appeals)?

Same with registry.in in India (for .in domains), where WHOIS privacy is not allowed as per the terms and conditions. [1]

[1]: https://www.registry.in/system/files/Terms_and_Conditions_fo...

I like such moves by companies. It seems fair and stands out compared to most others who’d just take money even if the service is unused.

I’m not a Kagi subscriber though. The USD 150 and USD 216 a year prices for family duo and family are quite high for many geographies. Hopefully Kagi scales its customer base and is able to provide affordable plans.

This is true. Craig Federighi and others have said in the past that they’ve added machine learning based features for a long time in the OS (with examples). It’s just that generative AI took off very quickly and now some people are imagining that it’s the only (or major) AI.

> One of the few examples I can think of however is Apple Maps. And it did get better; a lot better, some say better than Google Maps nowadays.

This depends on where (which country) you live. For all the ways Apple has been vocal about the Indian market and local production, Apple Maps literally sucks even in major cities in India. Google Maps is decades ahead and gets updated very quickly. Apple Maps cannot even find regular addresses or places.

Apple has its share of incompetencies and willful blind spots, and that shows up in specific areas often related to its services (Apple Intelligence is also a service). The organization and its people are not built for handling these effectively or quickly.

That said, I have more hope in Apple Intelligence improving quicker (at least in English, while competitors are already ahead in other languages, including several Indian languages) than I have in Apple Maps improving in India.

> Refrigeration can be costly if you are on a budget, and can be a non marginal factor in the total expenditures.

> Other ways to save are:

> - buy large bags of rice, flour, lentils, which last for a long time.

If you’re living in a place where the general weather is quite cold, you may be able to manage this. But in all other places, buying large bags of rice, flour and lentils is a recipe for infestation by insects (rice would have rice weevil eggs in it).

Buy large enough bags that you’re sure you can consume within a month, and you may probably be able to avoid infestation. The other option would be to get foods that are heavily sprayed with insecticides, which is likely to be bad for one’s health.

> Addresses are a mess (I won’t even try describing it), and I suspect that Google Maps has valid street addresses for a fairly small fraction of the total population, probably even under half the population in big cities. Yet quite a few things I’ve been dealing with have been using Google Maps data (based on detectable idiosyncrasies), with a couple even not allowing custom entries! In the USA these sorts of issues may be troublesome to a small fraction of the people so that government and business can largely ignore it without it inconveniencing too many people, but in India it’s sheer madness. So you know what happens instead? You just don’t deal with the dodgy phone app or website, but instead ring the company’s local agent, or go into the company’s shop, or something like that, and they bypass their broken system.

Can you give some examples and contrast those with the US?

FWIW, address-to-map-location and directions in India can be unreliable on Google Maps, and are borderline useless on Apple Maps.

In India, I’ve been using eSIM for a few years now (on iPhone, not Android). It’s been working quite well. Transferring eSIM from one iPhone to another works fine. Activation of an eSIM takes a few hours, at the most. Due to regulations, there are restrictions placed on sending and receiving SMSes for the first two days.

The only hindrance I’ve seen is that to get an eSIM in the first place, an SMS has to be sent from the phone even though the eSIM activation QR code is sent over email (and the registration of an email address is also possible online). In some cases, like switching from one type of plan to another (postpaid to prepaid), this would require getting a physical SIM card (that’s the default for any connection), using it from a phone that has a physical SIM slot and then using that for the SMS.

> I have a conspiracy, that our economy is so utterly shit that our govt uses such lynchings as a release valve. Hey, inflation biting you? Go kill someone and set them on fire, let that pent up stress out.

It’s not a conspiracy theory. Governments around the world spend money, effort and time to distract people from real issues. One of the easiest ways is to show them “those extremely bad people out there” and start or incite clashes and wars. When there’s another enemy that’s created to be worse for our social values or morals, it’s easy to unite people against that and keep them busy with something else.

> People in the Indian state of Mizoram don't have last names. Imagine what Southwest and the TSA would do with that.

For reference, Mizoram is in the northeast of India. People in some other Indian states, including in the south (where the language and culture are quite different), don’t have last names either. In some cases, they may use an initial (just one letter) that’s derived from the father’s name. In some cases even an initial may not be used (mononym). In visas, the U.S. consulate typically puts a “FNU” or “LNU” in these names, standing for “First Name Unknown” and “Last Name Unknown”, respectively.

Yet within India people are forced to create last names since some specific government issued IDs require that (it’s clear that those were designed by people who didn’t think of catering to the enormous diversity in the country).

> In India, chai specifically means tea with milk.

Citation needed with the part of India referred to here.

The news reports here in India say that there’s a lot of red tape and delays in India. Ease of doing business is lower compared to Vietnam. The policies are protectionist and restrictive. The labor laws are, to some extent, protective of employees. This is something Apple has been reported as not being happy about (but things are changing).

Apple already has a growing iPhone assembly base in India, which is set to go to 25% of its total iPhone production within a few years. While Apple is still looking for low cost production, I’m sure it doesn’t want a repeat of China by concentrating a lot on one or two countries. I think the current moves are a temporary aberration, since concentrating iPhones in India, iPads and Macs in Vietnam and so on doesn’t diversify the risk as much as ensuring that every product is assembled in more than one country. I’m sure Tim Cook is spending a lot of time working on such measures to de-risk manufacturing and maintaining the company’s profit margins.

All the countries that support low cost assembly and manufacturing in Asia have different kinds of problems as far as governments, policies and stability are concerned. Apple or any other company has to figure out the right mix and plans.

Here in India the plans do include free SMS, but there was a government imposed limit of 200 SMSes per day from a single SIM (this applied to retail consumers, not institutions that may want to send transactional or marketing messages). [1][2] Beyond that, the per SMS charge gets expensive. Though that limit seems to have been removed in 2020, [3] I’ve only seen plans that allow 100 SMSes per day.

Almost everyone in India with a smartphone uses WhatsApp. SMS is for receiving OTPs, transaction messages, marketing messages, spam, phishing messages, etc.

[1]: https://trai.gov.in/notifications/press-release/trai-extends...

[2]: https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/200-sms-per-day...

[3]: https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-techn...

Here in India, cashless payments through various proprietary and privacy harming platforms, such as PhonePe, Google Pay, Paytm are popular among the city crowds and has become more common due to these elites pushing for it with street vendors. While these platforms use the UPI platform underneath (which is run by a consortium of public, private and foreign banks), most people don’t know about UPI IDs and instead use the linked phone numbers. “Google Pay me” or “Paytm me” is the “Venmo me” (of the U.S.) equivalent here.

There are tons of “fintech” companies backed by VCs, each trying to capture a chunk of the market with heavy competition. They sometimes partner with traditional banks to offer services.

Meanwhile, the linking of the so-called unique number given to residents (not just citizens), called “Aadhaar”, with bank accounts has resulted in more frauds and thefts through biometric scams (gummy fingers). The Aadhaar number as well as fingerprints are obtained from property registration documents, which are publicly exposed.

With UPI, there is a “payment request” mode too. Since digital literacy is extremely low in India, a lot of people have been losing money through various vishing and phishing scams. Getting the money back may also require greasing the palms of law enforcement.

As for me, I encourage people to use cash. I use a combination of cash and online payments. I carry all combinations of currency notes and coins to pay for any amount. I also have a rough idea of how much I’d need.

Whenever more people realize that the government is tracking their spends (including the push for a retail CBDC), they’ll start switching to cash mainly to evade taxes. So far though, most people have neither realized nor understood privacy concerns, give surveillance, etc. (I’m not blaming the poor and vulnerable sections, who already have a lot more to worry about)

That may be true only in the U.S. and a few other countries. I recall Apple said several years ago (maybe around 2017?) that it would improve maps in India. It’s 2023 and it still can’t find common addresses in major cities. Considering that Apple has repeatedly stated that India is a key market, is it the competency of the maps team that ought to be questioned?

That’s old news (from 2021). There are no laws on banning them yet (though the RBI, which is the central bank, has been in favor of a complete ban).

> No garlic, no onions, etc.

The no garlic and no onion are part of a much broader practice to avoid root vegetables. Anything that grows below the ground is not consumed. Jains (the people who follow Jainism) mostly follow this (I say “mostly” because even though they’re supposed to, many may not).

Orthodox Hindus may also follow similar practices. Hindu festivals and rituals also avoid onion and garlic.

There’s a lot more to say than can be contained in a comment. You can read about Jain food and Sattvic food to know more.

> Some countries like India make owning monero illegal so it's not an option for everyone.

Owning cryptocurrency is not illegal in India. There is no ban on any cryptocurrencies in India. There is a hefty tax deduction at source on any transactions. Cryptocurrencies are not recognized as legal tender in India, which is the case in many other countries.

Could you list any points that stood out to you in this context and on the topic of this thread?

The story and the connection to bank accounts don't sound logical at all. It's not like the husbands wouldn't know that the money is there somewhere. If a random person can do to another person a "classical robbery held at knifepoint or gunpoint and taken to an atm and being robbed or being blackmailed to actually do instant money transfer online", why wouldn't husbands catch on to this? The women could, in theory, have more than one bank account and hide how much they earn and save by keeping a lower balance in the account known to the husband. But the same could also be done with physical cash by handing a chunk of it to a trusted person (for expenses and savings) and keeping a smaller amount at home to be snatched.

With one or more bank accounts, the woman must now keep her phone safe and inaccessible from the husband too. Or she must be very quick and diligent in deleting all the SMSes sent by banks for all kinds of transactions. This adds more hassles than saving cash with someone else.

In all the cases of alcoholism and men snatching money from the women/household without any other care, it's violence that keeps that relationship and "contract" alive. That violence isn't going to disappear just because physical cash is replaced by a bank account.

In summary, I don't buy the conclusion you've quickly jumped to.

> This entire process of opening an NRO account can be done at a bank branch physically or online via your mobile phone.

Online method is not possible since banks and other providers insist on providing Aadhaar number and completing OTP authentication for that mode. Aadhaar is a number given for residents, i.e., anyone who has legally resides in the country for more than 182 days. So a foreigner landing in the country isn’t going to be eligible for it until six months have passed.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37371646

I’ll avoid repeating my previous comment [1], which has details on this. Unlike the mistaken belief of several people on this post, UPI does share the phone number even if a person uses an alphanumeric UPI ID instead of the initial or common phonenumber@provider address.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37371646

Next time, tell them that the Union Minister of State for Electronics and IT has said that people shouldn’t give their phone numbers at retailers if there’s no justifiable reason. [1]

If they refuse to give an invoice, tell them you’ll report them for GST evasion. [2]

[1]: https://www.onmanorama.com/news/india/2023/02/13/rajeev-chan...

[2]: https://theprint.in/economy/govt-launches-gst-reward-scheme-...

Nope. An alphanumeric UPI handle won’t hide your phone number [1]

UPI payments also ~~leak~~ share the person’s full legal name on transactions…and the phone number.

[1]: https://scroll.in/article/1045536/are-your-upi-payments-farm...