throwawaypath

>You keep on repeating that. Your brain is hyper-focused on "every state has free voter ID card".

Because it's my OP, a fact, and something that deeply triggers you because it shatters your false narrative.

>Meanwhile you are consistently ignoring the context: 10% of Americans don't have voter ID of any kind.

They're free to obtain in every state that requires voter IDs as I've stated multiple times. That's the context: they're free.

>No state issues voter ID automatically.

Every state issues IDs required for voting automatically.

>Those Americans will be disenfranchised under a Republican voter ID law.

No they won't. Various State, federal, and the US Supreme Court have upheld voter ID laws and have agreed they do not disenfranchise voters.

>The point is whether getting them is an obstacle that will disenfranchise legal voters.

Glad the US and various State governments agree it's not an obstacle that will disenfranchise legal voters.

>Lol are you literally 13 years old? You definitely act like it.

Wow you just got outsmarted by a 13 year old. Weird flex.

>You didn't actually address my question.

Yes I did.

>No. In the Czech Republic, they are issued automatically because the government already has your birth certificate.

False, Czech Republic requires you present a passport or birth certificate to obtain an ID card: https://dostupnyadvokat.cz/en/blog/identity-card

>Because IDs there are universal, there is a much lower barrier to entry.

Doesn't look like it.

>You dont know what you are talking about.

"You just proved me wrong but let me poorly try to deflect!"

>You don't "give it away" and I didn't say that you did. You need to acquire your birth cert, then show it to the DMV. I don't even know why you would even argue this. You're just arguing to be argumentative.

Your quote: "so they don't force you to acquire it and then give it back to a different part of the government."

You literally stated "give it back" LOL! Your words, not mine.

>Again, you have the mind of a 13 year old.

Got outsmarted by a 13 year old again.

>In European countries, everyone has voter ID because the IDs are issued automatically, which does not happen in the US.

This is false, not every country in Europe has compulsory IDs. ID issuance is automatic in the US.

>You are sad, pathetic person.

Says the one arguing with a 13 year old, following them around in the comments because you got outsmarted. Projecting about being pathetic are we?

>Citation needed.

Literally your source.

>win internet points or just fill up your vacuous life.

Nowhere near as vacuous as following someone around in the comments and replyguying after proven wrong.

>Debating someone who is not interested in actually understnading the world

True, no one should be "debating" you. Glad I'm not, I'm just destroying you with facts.

>So please grow up. Until then, I won't continue this conversation.

Glad you admit defeat.

>This statement as written is false. If you disagree, please show me where Massachusetts has a free ID card available to anyone who wants it.

Wrong. Massachusetts allows voter registration affidavits to be used as voter IDs. Those are free.

>But it does not have a general-purpose free ID card

Strawman. Nowhere did I claim that every state gives out "a general-purpose free ID." The free IDs for voting in many states are not general purpose.

>If you’re going to be argumentative, and state that something “is a fact” multiple times, please make sure you’re correct before posting.

Glad I could clear this up for you. What I stated is a fact, and correct.

Swap is disabled everywhere. Endpoint hardening.

>Seems like a miscalculation on their end.

Or it's a miscalculation on your end.

>You'd think they'd check around before throwing $3M away.

Maybe they did?

Well, time to move to DigitalOcean, I guess...

>You are criticizing the left for disliking election results; meanwhile, you are supporting groups that aim to overturn election results. That's the irony.

I do not support groups that aim to overturn election results, you're delusionally inventing that. There is no irony here.

>The incongruity arises from the contradiction in your opinions.

There is no incongruity here, it's just something you've delusionally invented in your mind.

Supporting democracy != supporting far-right parties

>One would expect a reasonable person to either support democracy in all cases, or oppose it. You, however, support democracy when it suits your partisan ends and oppose it when it doesn't. That's both hypocritical and ironic.

I have never opposed democracy, full stop. This must be ironic according to you, because it's the left that's calling for undemocratic, fascistic moves like banning opposition parties: https://www.yahoo.com/news/germanys-social-democrats-back-pr...

Every accusation is a confession.

hackyhacky is following me around in the comments because he's crashing out about being proven wrong here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49546137

So you post a definition of irony and completely fail to come up with an example of said definition LOL. Misunderstanding irony is so prevalent: https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/what-irony-is-not/

My criticism of the left has nothing to do with the "incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result." Nor do I support right-wing groups.

Your inability to understand irony is on full display here.

hackyhacky is following me around in the comments because he's crashing out about being proven wrong here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49546137

>blatant hypocrisy

Nothing I've said is hypocrisy. Please reread the definition of hypocrisy.

hackyhacky is following me around in the comments because he's crashing out about being proven wrong here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49546137

>The level of irony

That's not irony. Please reread the definition of irony.

>given the global right's shift towards authoritarian populism under untouchable leaders.

Whataboutism.

hackyhacky is following me around in the comments because he's crashing out about being proven wrong here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49546137

Whataboutism.

You're following me around in the comments because you're crashing out about being proven wrong here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49546137

>You are aware that it is a cornerstone of antisemitic thought to consider Jewish people to be not white?

No it's not. He claims to be Jewish and not White.

You're following me around in the comments because you're crashing out about being proven wrong here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49546137

>They won 43.9% of the vote in 1933, the last free election until they were militarily crushed.

Undemocratically outlawing the opposition to secure the vote...

>Remind me the score of the AfD today?

Remind me of party that is calling to undemocratically outlaw the opposition to secure the vote?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/germanys-social-democrats-back-pr...

No one who's cracked a history book open was pleased with that. Nazis were not elected democratically in the traditional sense; they never won a majority in a free national election. You're following me around in the comments because you're crashing out about being proven wrong here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49546137

>You are missing the point.

No I'm not.

>Even if there is no financial cost, it requires documentation and time to get voter ID.

Yes, you must prove your eligibility to vote.

>It is not issued automatically.

They are issued automatically after proving eligibility.

>That's why 10% of the US population doesn't have form of ID that could be used to vote

Correlation != causation

>and will be disenfranchised under Republican voter ID requirements.

No they won't.

>Until that issue is fixed, voter ID is not something I can support.

There are no issues to fix.

>No, it was not.

Yes, it was.

>Either you are deeply confused or responding to wrong comment.

Stop projecting about being confused. Everyone can see where you poorly attempted to support your objectively false points.

>This is not moving goal posts. This is precisely the point.

The point was you thought IDs for voting were not free. That is false. Stop moving the goalposts.

>Good. Then you acknowledge that legal voters will be disenfranchised?

Non sequitur. Proving you're eligibility to vote is not disenfranchisement.

>What exactly went wrong for this catastrophe to happen?

A catastrophe named democracy. Leftists are rejecting democracy and embracing autocracy to get their way.

>Hating people they don't know, based on second-hand testimonies.

Yes leftists are the least likely to know AfD supporters.

>Ask them their opinions about Jews, too.

The most openly antisemitic groups in Germany are leftists, so, I don't want to ask them about their awful opinions about the Jews.

And they just voted to keep it that way.

You should look in the mirror and ask yourself why you're so angry and ashamed of democracy.

>How does that contradict my point?

Your point was states do not give free IDs. That point is an objectively false point. It directly contradicts your point.

> 10 percent of Americans do not have acceptable ID

Stop moving goalposts.

>Even free ID doesn't make the operation frictionless, as you still have to provide a birth cert or citizenship doc.

No one made the claim the operation is frictionless, stop straw manning.

>Don't tell me I'm "unfactual"

You are unfactual as proved in the thread.

>while presenting this kind of weak sauce non sequitur.

It's not a non sequitur, it dismantles your false statements.

>Most (if not all?) states and provinces will have some form of "non driving" ID available if needed. However, it is optional, costs money and requires other documentation to get it, such as an original copy of a birth certificate.

False. Every state in the US has a free voter ID option.

>But their contributions are, let's say, not motivated by fact-based reasoning.

Neither are yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49546137

>Did you not see the links to factual evidence that I included?

You did not link to any factual evidence that made any claim contrary to the facts: Every state has free voter IDs. This is a fact.

>Most people get their in the form of a driver's license, not as a pure voter ID. If a tiny minority of people get the free option, then how is it relevant?

So not only do you now admit that free options exist, you're trying to claim they're irrelevant. Millions of people get free voter IDs, they're not irrelevant. This is a fact you just admitted to, which was my original claim. I accept your defeat.

>This makes no sense. "Walking distance" to what? I have never heard of or seen such a program. If they exist, they are not terribly effective, given that 10% of the population still lack a valid ID.

"I haven't heard about it so it doesn't exist."

>That's not how it works in Europe (at least in Netherlands and Czech Republic, where I have experience). In that case, the government already has your birth cert, so they don't force you to acquire it and then give it back to a different part of the government.

That's exactly how it works in Europe, Czech Republic. If you don't have a copy, you request a new one.

To acquire the machine-readable version of the card, a citizen must present either a currently valid card (in case of renewals), or a currently valid passport, or a birth certificate and proof of citizenship.[0]

Birth certificate. Sound familiar?

>so they don't force you to acquire it and then give it back to a different part of the government.

That's not how it works in the US, you do not give away your birth certificate to a different part of the government.

>Which, again, is why 10% of Americans don't have a valid ID, a fact that you refuse to address.

That's not why 10% don't have ID nor did I fail to address it. School is mandatory in the US yet 15% of Americans are illiterate.

>Can you please name a single US state that automatically issues ID to all voters? I can't.

Not every European country has mandatory IDs. Like Europe, every state in the US has free voter IDs. Every single state, you cannot deny this fact.

>Not an answer to my question.

You don't need a known audience to virtue signal to.

>do you categorically refuse the possibility that anyone pursues justice for its own sake?

You're not pursing justice, you're spew false propaganda and fighting a problem that doesn't exist.

>Clearly no one in the MAGA...

Whataboutism.

>You keep on ignoring important words in my comment. In this case, you specifically edited out "automatic" and "mandatory." The absence of those words is why Democrats blocked the bill.

That's not why they blocked the bill.

>Literally no state has this. I live in a red state and I have to go in and request a voter ID, using appropriate evidence. They are not issued automatically.

No country issues an ID automatically to anyone who makes a request. The ID is issued to you automatically after proving who you are. You don't need to petition the state with an attorney or pay a fee.

I'll say it again, every state in the US has free voter IDs. EVERY state, red and blue.

QED.

>Calling it propganda doesn't make it untrue.

Your statement was false, untrue. You finally admitted above that you were wrong.

>My conclusion, based on the evidence presented in this thread: Either you are a terrible debater who consistently disregards evidence

Poor conclusion. Find a single state that does not have free voter IDs.

>intentionally ignoring evidence that disagrees with your preconceived conclusion.

No evidence disagrees with my original statement of fact:

Every US state issues a free voter ID cards. Even Republican strongholds.

QED.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_national_identity_card

>Okay, we're at that level of argument, I see. Well, you forgot to bring your evidence.

So did you.

>A drivers license in New York costs between $64.25 and $107.5

This is about voter IDs (which are free), not drivers licenses. Now you're moving goalposts.

>Please explain how a an ID issued without an in-person visit is supposed to securely represent a person's citizenship status? That is the point, after all, right?

Many states have mobile DMV offices that are stationed within walking distance during the year, special programs where DMV employees go to the homes of those in need to verify documentation, etc.

>Absolutely not true. Even if it were true, it's still friction, which is ~10% of the American population lacks an ID that would be required to vote.

It's absolutely true. Yes, if you lose documentation such as birth certificates, you may be required to acquire them. Same as any first world country.

>European countries in the "first world" have automatic, mandatory IDs, which the US does not.

The US has this via the states, not federally.

>Republicans always accuse liberals of "virtue signalling" when liberals try to do anything supporting justice.

You're not supporting justice, you're regurgitating false propaganda.

>To whom am I virtue signalling? My massive Instagram following (which I don't have)?

Like Karens virtue signaling in the town square about being good Christians.

>Maybe you falsely accuse other people of chasing clout because the idea of pursuing justice

You're not "pursuing justice" you're regurgitating BlueSky brainrot to feel morally superior.

>Please check your facts. Free, mandatory ID was offered as amendment by Democrats to the recent voter ID law and was voted down by Republicans.

Free voter ID is provided by every Republican state. The link you posted literally states that Democrats blocked the bill LOL!

>That's not what I said. In order for voter ID laws to be fair, IDs must be not only free, but mandatory for everyone and issued automatically. Republicans have consistently voted against such a law.

That is exactly what every state has. Every Republican state has this. Find a state that does not have this.

>Do you really disagree with that statement? Can you then explain why the GOP has systematically disenfranchised voters?

Stop moving the goalposts. Your claims about voter ID are fake propaganda. Voter IDs are free in every state, you cannot deny this fact.

>No, they do not.

Yes they do.

>Getting an ID card in most places requires a fee,

False, there are no fees for voter IDs. Please find a state where you believe this is true.

>as well a trip to the DMV or equivalent

Not always.

>and providing documentation such as a birth certificate, which also requires a fee.

False. Many (all?) states provide free birth certificates for voter IDs.

>You take this process for granted

I don't take this process for granted, it's the same process across the first world.

>because you live a privileged life, but for many people, taking a day off work and paying $50 to get an ID is an insurmountable obstacle,

Nice soft bigotry of low expectations. You're so privileged that you actually believe this objectively false propaganda. The fact that you've repeated it to multiple times to virtue signal which may dissuade people to vote is a luxury belief [0]. Who believes luxury beliefs? Privileged peopled.

>If voter ID advocates feel so strongly about their position, they would support mandatory ID.

They do.

>The fact that they don't support mandatory ID

False, they do support free IDs.

>they don't care about securing elections, they care only about excluding the undesirable class from elections.

Repeating propaganda doesn't make it true.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_belief

Every state in the US has free ID cards that work for voting.

His flagged comment:

Giving condolences to Charlie Kirk isn't "support", remigration is not the deportation of non-white citizens, Brendan Eich did not donate to the kiwifarms, etc. Everything is skewed and stripped of any nuance.

But keep going, like you say we're not living in the neo-liberal Obama-era anymore. Ten years ago it was a mighty struggle to convince people of how corrosive your ideology was. Keep annoying everyone, keep pushing everyone who doesn't fully comply with your ideology away.

>Most of the names on that list are kinda expected and obvious for any of us who spent any amount of time seriously engaging online outside of social media spaces.

Those names are "kinda expected and obvious" for only the terminally online.

>Cloudflare defended literal White Supremacists a la The Daily Stormer

Never happened.

>and DHH is a person of immense notoriety for their bigoted views.

Only for the terminally online leftist.

>What’s disappointing is two-fold: HN greens and miscreants leaping to defend overtly fascist viewpoints as valid (faithfully ignoring the Paradox of Tolerance)

Heterodox opinions and anything right of Stalin != "overtly fascist viewpoints"

>They aren’t the deplatformed, they’re the deplatformers; they aren’t the debanked, they’re the debankers.

Always projection and admission. "When we do it, it's (D)ifferent!"

>I don’t know which of you is part of the lucky 10,000 today, but more people need to internalize that life is inherently political due to its complexity. This rhetoric isn’t empty or hollow, it has meaningful impact and direct harm when left unchallenged.

That's what many said about DEI/far-leftism. Anyone not fully aligned were called every -ist and name you could think of.

>Folks who exist on the “fringe” have no choice but to exist as open political entities until and unless the “fringe” is normalized

Everyone is a political entity.

>hence the backlash to “woke” and “DEI” by those whose power is derived from oppression and unalienable attributes like race or sex

It's backlash against boldfaced racism. DEI/wokeism is a racist, sexist, hateful ideology. That's why there's backlash.

>There is a very real problem of wealthy and powerful people leaning heavily on old fascist tropes to promote their own agendas at the expense of everyone else, their supporters included.

There was a very real problem of wealthy and powerful people leaning heavily on old communist tropes to promote their own agendas at the expense of everyone else, their supporters included.

Disagreeing with communism seems like a reasonable position to me.

Nothing there. You must be mistaken.