sharetea

> This is a massive lift in real economic activity which can finance a lot of debt.

China's already hit its limit. "Also, the Chinese economy is over-indebted. The total social debt is now 300%. Together with external debt, this figure rises to about 350%." http://marketrealist.com/2016/01/george-soros-sees-crisis-re...

> Secondly there is a now huge upper middle class who are travelling the world, sending their kids to Australia or US for study and still buying Apple products. They are not going away

"their buying power doesn't compare with that of their US counterparts. Between 2010 and 2014, only 12% of these people reported a household income of more than $3,200 a year, or $8.50 a day." http://www.businessinsider.com/demand-report-on-chinas-middl...

The article talks about investors needing to know that

1.) China's construction boom is over

2.) Need to understand China better

3.) Take off the rose-tinted glass

I would add a few more here:

4.) With all the capital controls currently in place, once you invest, you might not get your money out, ever.

5.) With president Xi becoming more dictator-like, and encouraging anti-foreign behaviors, once you get in to China, you might easily get in trouble. Jailed without trial. Or disappeared.

6.) With the great firewall becoming more restrictive, and VPN working less and less, you might not be able to hit any foreign websites from China. No communications with your family or loved ones. No search for foreign customers.

7.) With the impending yuan devaluation (20%-50%), it might not be worth it with a low growth environment in China.

Also related, looks like China's finally cutting itself off the rest of the internet in the world....switching from blacklisting to whitelisting.

"The proposed rules would prohibit the country’s Internet-service providers from allowing connections to websites with domains, or Web addresses, registered outside China. Violators would face fines of up to 30,000 yuan ($4,621) and public notices exposing their failure to obey."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-seeks-more-legal-muscle-to...

Not true.

China angered by Hillary Clinton tweet on women's rights http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34377406

"Mr Xi has come under fire for hosting the summit as several women's rights activists were held earlier this year for planning a demonstration against sexual harassment on public transport."

There have been disappearance of Hong Kong booksellers by the Chinese government, as reported here: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-35480229

as well as bookstores in Hong Kong airport being replaced by "Chinese friendly" ones http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/artic...

some other views:

""China will face a more challenging situation in trade this year than 2015. Both imports and exports in February fell more than our expectations."

""China's exports declined the most since May 2009, suggesting that the overly strong CNY exchange rate has become an obstacle for the external sector"

""February's trade data is really poor and that will exert depreciation pressure on the yuan."

http://news.forexlive.com/!/china-export-collapse-in-january...

Apparently people aren't sure what is good vs evil anymore....what a sad world we live in.

Greed: Russia's former largest foreign investor: Putin is worth $200 billion.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-former-largest-foreig...

Wrath: HOW MANY MORE YEARS WILL PUTIN OCCUPY UKRAINE?

http://www.newsweek.com/how-many-more-years-will-putin-occup...

Here Are The Numbers On Putin And Journalists Ending Up Dead

http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/22/here-are-the-numbers-on-pu...

Pride: Moscow court upholds gay Pride ban for next 100 years

http://wisconsingazette.com/2012/08/17/moscow-court-upholds-...

Gluttony: Russians start trashing banned Western food

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/07/news/russia-destroys-food-pe...

Sloth: How He and His Cronies Stole Russia

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2014/12/18/how-he-and-his-cr...

So the western world should just take the Chinese government media at face value? since the foreign media now needs a 'permit' to publish online in China. This is a government that cheats, lies, and steals. Oh, and kidnaps foreign citizens and forces them to tell lies on state TV

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jnylander/2016/01/07/swedens-for...

Latest News: China to lay off five to six million state workers

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-layoffs-excl...

i don't like evil government. do you?

"China 'covertly providing oil to North Korea' Seoul claims Beijing falsifying its export statistics to keep Pyongyang's industry, military operational"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11...

Missiles Deployed on Disputed South China Sea Artificial Island, Officials Say

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/18/world/asia/china-missiles-...

These aren't the smart engineering politicians with a 10 year view China has foisted its fable onto the world. These are the corrupt paranoid politicians who know they are one mass protest away from having all their families disposed. These are fat and lazy billionnaires who have siphoned off local schools, hospitals, people, environments, and is about to abscond with riches. These are the people that see their debt-fueled economy collapsing, and know there's no more workers to be paid in pennies to be exploited.

""In total, 106 members of China's National People's Congress and 97 members of Chinese People’s Political Consultative Congress, are on Hurun's China Rich List. Their combined wealth hits $463.8 billion"

http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-politicians-are-rich-...

Kyle Bass: China’s $34 trillion banking sector set to collapse 30-40%

https://www.trunews.com/kyle-bass-chinas-34-trillion-banking...

yeah I thought about rebuking his point, but someone who quotes fiction texts not from 'another thread', but from a book written in 1957 that was talking more about socialism and fascism in Hitler's Germany and Russia, and proceeds to copy and paste an entire paragraph in order to support his point about US in 2016 Well, that's some sort of superpower right there.

echoing what vpalan2 said below:

"If I wanted to do massive, irreparable harm to China, this is the law I would pass. And yet, they have done this willingly to themselves, without hesitation or incident."

These aren't the smart engineering politicians with a 10 year view China has foisted its fable onto the world. These are the corrupt paranoid politicians who know they are one mass protest away from having all their families disposed. These are fat and lazy billionnaires who have siphoned off local schools, hospitals, people, environments, and is about to abscond with riches. These are the people that see their debt-fueled economy collapsing, and know there's no more workers to be paid in pennies to be exploited.

"In total, 106 members of China's National People's Congress and 97 members of Chinese People’s Political Consultative Congress, are on Hurun's China Rich List. Their combined wealth hits $463.8 billion. By comparison, the median wealth of American politicians was just over $1 million in 2013, according to CNN Money. " http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-politicians-are-rich-...

Umm...here

- China's total debt risen to 346% of GDP in 2015. http://seekingalpha.com/article/3852886-chinese-debt-problem...

- China exports fall 11.2% in January, imports down 18.8% http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/14/china-releases-trade-data-for...

- China’s $6.7 trillion bond market is flashing the same danger signs that triggered a tumble in stocks http://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2015/10/10/...

- China Capital Outflows Rise to Estimated $1 Trillion in 2015 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-25/china-capi...

- China's Net Capital Outflows Probably Hit $113 Billion In January http://www.actionforex.com/analysis/daily-forex-fundamentals...

- "Chinese banks will lose approximately $3.5 trillion of equity if China's banking system loses 10 percent of assets" (all of its reserve would be gone) http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/10/kyle-bass-china-banks-may-los...

And so it starts. Economic collapse will prompt the dictatorship in China to

- Increase anti-foreign rhetorics in media. Don't like it, Microsoft? tough

- Ban Foreign services. Don't like it, Uber? tough

- Devalue Yuan by 50%. Don't like it, Apple? tough

- Nationalize foreign assets. Don't like it, Ford? tough

Nope

Victory for Tsai Ing-wen, head of a party promoting independence from China, will likely usher in uncertain relations between Taipei and Beijing

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/taiwan/121031...

Foxconn (Taiwanese manufacturer for Apple) decision to invest a whopping $5 billion in India has caused unease in China as it marks the first top international firm opting for India amid a slowdown in the Chinese economy.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2015-08-10/news...

Taiwan GDP per capita $30,000

China GDP per capita $3,000

Mark Hart: The Yuan Devaluation Still Has 50% To Go http://www.valuewalk.com/2016/01/mark-hart-the-yuan-devaluat...

some data points about the Russia/Chinese dictators that some people love (or they're just paid trolls from Russian/Chinese government)

Putin is worth $200 billion, "After 14 years in power of Russia, and the amount of money that the country has made, and the amount of money that hasn't been spent on schools and roads and hospitals and so on" http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-former-largest-foreig...

China's rubber-stamp parliament is a billionaires' club http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/10/news/economy/china-billionai...

It looks like the dictator/autocratic states in Asia (Russia/China) with its economy collapsing, is resorting to territorial aggression against neighboring countries in order to get resources and get people to look away from its collapse. China exports fall 11.2% in January, imports down 18.8% http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/14/china-releases-trade-data-for.... Russia's ruble collapses to lowest level, with "Inflation reached 12.5% in 2015 while real wages kept dropping, leaving many people much worse off." everhttp://money.cnn.com/2016/01/20/investing/russia-ruble-recor...

With Russia bumping against all of Europe, and China bumping against Japan/Korea/Taiwan/Vietnam/Malaysia/Indonesia/Phillipines, this is going to be bad for world stability.

This article is good, but it underscores how fast and catastrophic China's collapse is.

- China's total debt risen to 346% of GDP in 2015. http://seekingalpha.com/article/3852886-chinese-debt-problem...

- China exports fall 11.2% in January, imports down 18.8% http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/14/china-releases-trade-data-for...

- China’s $6.7 trillion bond market is flashing the same danger signs that triggered a tumble in stocks http://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2015/10/10/...

- China Capital Outflows Rise to Estimated $1 Trillion in 2015 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-25/china-capi...

- China's Net Capital Outflows Probably Hit $113 Billion In January http://www.actionforex.com/analysis/daily-forex-fundamentals...

- "Chinese banks will lose approximately $3.5 trillion of equity if China's banking system loses 10 percent of assets" (all of its reserve would be gone) http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/10/kyle-bass-china-banks-may-los...

kids today are also less paranoid about surveillance. It's a survey; no one is going out to get you.

Chinese government buying up foreign companies before they devalue yuan by 50%. makes sense.

I suggest you to do one of two things. Either refute the 'ponzi' argument, or keep attacking me personally :) You seem to have some anger in your life. you should resolve that first.

The China's own ponzi economy will be mirroring the collapse of Ezubo .

"So in two short decades, China has erected a monumental Ponzi economy that is economically rotten to the core. It has 1.5 billion tons of steel capacity, but “sell-through” demand of less than half that amount.... The same is true for its cement industry, ship-building, solar and aluminum industries—to say nothing of 70 million empty luxury apartments and vast stretches of over-built highways, fast rail, airports, shopping mails and new cities.

In short, the flip-side of the China’s giant credit bubble is the most massive malinvesment of real economic resources—-labor, raw materials and capital goods—ever known"

China’s Monumental Ponzi: Here’s How It Unravels http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/chinas-monumental-ponz...

Any reason, you, who lives in US and making a living off American companies, would want an unlikely catastrophic event to destroy US, and hoping authoritarian billionnaire dictators in China and Russia to gain even more military power on the world?

Foxconn is a Taiwanese company

Yup China grew......by borrowing 32Trillion http://www.businessinsider.com/china-debt-to-gdp-statistics-... in order to support dead state companies http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-3422491... and build empty cities and buildings http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/75493/20160126/shanghais-... http://www.citymetric.com/skylines/enough-empty-floor-space-.... Now they have to layoff tons of steel/cement/coal workers, around 400,000 to start http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-26/china-stee..., and 300,000 soldiers.

Ironically, these unemployed million of disgruntled workers will not move into the empty buildings in the city; They'll most likely move back to the countryside. They will, however, be back in the city for protesting.

Not enough reserve

"by 2018 all of China's excess reserves — cash that it has on hand to use immediately — could be gone."

http://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-fx-reserves-less-than-...

Pretty easy bet:

China Capital Outflows Rise to Estimated $1 Trillion in 2015

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-25/china-capi...

Chinese banks' new bad loans more than doubled in 2015

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-banking-npl-idUSKCN0...

China Crash: $28 Trillion Debt Load Forces Credit Crunch

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/01/05/china-...

Capital flight pushes China to the brink of devaluation

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/12088033/C...

Mark Hart: The Yuan Devaluation Still Has 50% To Go

http://www.valuewalk.com/2016/01/mark-hart-the-yuan-devaluat...

Look at it this way: Enron (China) engaged in accounting fraud (lied about debt and gdp) in order to obtain massive investment (massive dollar denominated debt), and spent all the money on parties and drugs (empty cities and roads to nowhere. steel factories that are kept open despite losing money. league of legend game studio and AMC. all the north korea's crude supply) and pretty soon will declare bankruptcy (yuan devaluation and chinese company bankruptcies), to the detriment of investors (European companies, US funds, people everywhere). Will anyone go to jail? (China won't be able to get any FDI for a a long time. Economic depression)...and do investors have the right to be angry (sure)

> Have you ever been in China?

Yes, I've been to China. Btw, have you ever read the thread? I was responding to OP's statement 'nobody else is going to come in and take those customers except Chinese companies'

> The world GDP has already shifted back to the East after it shifted to the west due to the industrual revolution. The economic future lies in the Eurasian continent with Russia/CIS, India and China.

Yeah that like sounds something out of Zerohedge. You're gonna have to provide some evidence.