martimarkov

Not really. It’s a condition. You can also choose the old rules.. you can also chose to not develop for iOS. There is no gun to your head if you don’t develop for iOS

Not when you have signed a contract… come on this is law not Robin Hood…

My worry in this case is not the government it’s the unsecured rooted Android devices will malware.

When I want to have secure conversations I either do IRL or Signal on iOS devices.

No it’s because I’m not sure if the messages I send to them can be easily harvested. Same goes for photos I have shared. Maybe it’s naked photos. Maybe they are photos which show me doing something considered illegal. Idk let’s say I’m speeding on my private road and I send the video which seen out of context is damaging to me.

When the user uses iMessage I can be sure if it leaks - he was either hacked or shared the photo. If he uses a 3rd party client MY data can now be harvested by the 3rd party without my consent or knowledge. The knowledge is the key here because apart from the original 2 reasons for a leak now it’s also the other option of 3rd party app harvesting data.

Get China as an investor is a year or two and… now my data 100% will be harvested.

It’s not a general purpose device, it’s a phone. The only reason why anyone is pushing for this is because their profits are affected and they do all sorts of mental gymnastics in order to justify it. If Apple tomorrow says 0% fees - 90% of the developers are going to say YES we did it. But in reality no new user freedoms were gained or choice to the user was provided. It’s an assumption but everyone always talks about the % being high and given that there are more app developers than console developers it seems like it’s not a mindset but just a “it hurts my profit margins” which has 0 benefit for the user.

But you knew exactly the contract you are getting into and still went ahead with it.

Also Apple take around 15% from most developers.

Also it’s not really about providing choice given that developers will flock to the lowest % store and it doesn’t matter if that store siphons personal data. My main problem with this is that the push comes from profit margins and not care about the users and that is pretty obvious if you ask the why question a few times

Not if every app decides to implement their own in app subscription in order to make it harder for me to cancel or dispute. And then move their app to not the App Store. Apple provides a common playground for every app. You need to provide these things to your customers or you can play with them. I like it because it forces developers to adhere to some standards. Like for example not tracking me and not building only the subscription start part but have the cancellation behind an email I need to send.

A lot of ppl have ovens or calculators or cheap smart tvs doesn’t make them general computing devices.

Being sued for different things - yeah you tend to get different results.

And what is the definition of nasty here? It's very subjective. Apple doesn't own the mobile market and are below 50% control of it so they are not really a monopoly. I'm also not sure how you can use anti-trust or anti-monopoly against them when they have been found again and again to not be a monopoly.

Hope it doesn't happen to Apple as I like and prefer that I can only buy stuff and most importantly have a single place to cancel all my subscriptions without dark patterns like having to talk to a person to cancel.

I'll again make my argument that the developers should respect the choice of the users. If the user chose iOS maybe they chose it because they wanted the curated experience and the locked it product. I certainly do so and so do my parents who haven't had an issue with random apps scamming them and stealing their card details or passwords.

I really don't understand the negative sentiment against Apple - guys, it's a phone/tablet. The consoles are much more like a General Purpose Computers and we are not really touching those or being that vocal which to me shows that it's not really a moral stance and it's a "my profits are affected stance".

It’s identical to a jailbreak which gets patched ASAP so not sure what is has to do with walled garden as much.

I’ve played with the same idea of making an Android client but I would never build a product on that because I know the limitations on my side.

As a company you are 100% allowed to break 3rd party client when they don’t have an agreement with you. It’s your product after all. Heck even with an agreement APIs don’t support old versions.

The the OP should read what he is buying.

I have a TV from 95 am I not allowed to watch Netflix? It runs on my phone.

Yes the limitations are different but you know them beforehand you just go and say it’s unfair I can’t have everything just the way I want it.

You don’t like iMessage - we have plenty of alternatives.

The alternative is to leave to a for profit company. That company should not have that right.

If the content is rendered in my browser I can manipulate the JS and HTML as much as like. If you don’t like that -> feel free to put protections. But the same way a browser interprets the code I can put stuff on top of that interpretation.

So morally I’m okay to use a blocker if that’s what I want to do. It’s also immoral to track me but Google seems to be okay with it. If that is the relationship they want to establish so be it. I will act in the reciprocal manner.

The idea is not to decide on what someone else is going to do with their mind. Hence the idea that everyone is free to do what they want. Ads are not a natural part of the world so making the argument that not watching them is somehow wrong is what is actually a decision being pushed on others.

If companies didn’t try to normalize ads and tell you off for using adblockers then nobody would have a problem with it. But given that people say: You need to watch ads otherwise you are stealing is putting decisions in someone’s mind.

Yeah having privacy protections for everyone really hurts us… Someone releases something shiny so we should just allow them to harvest personal data and manipulate markets so we get access to it… not really a society I think most giants want to live in. I prefer waiting a bit but knowing that Google needs to play on a bit more even field over here. Plus none of the GDPR or DMA are that bad. Just make sure you comply and get it over with. It’s not that hard to build a privacy centric product that doesn’t steal my data.

On 2 yeah it does. Seems like the UK keeps falling behind on everything now that it lives in the shadow of the continent and can’t seem to create any value and nobody cares about that market. So much for the MaSiVe TraDe DeALZ we were getting unlocked…

It seems some ppl were able to access it in 2019. Is there a way to still access it?

I seemed to have completely missed this

Fair enough I need to look more into it. Thanks for the info

I actually don’t have a problem so much with this solution. It ensures that apps are still adhering to the same standards on privacy and security and that’s what I care about.

One thing that is missing is the requirement for each app to use in app purchases and how easy it is to cancel subscriptions. If you give a suggestion on this one (give that the above I’m very okay with) in the spirit of the above one - I’d most likely switch camps

There was no App Store when the iPhone came out so not really a valid point

Nope, my parents had 20 things installed on their Android devices because they clicked yes to something.

I insist on the fact that you should respect the end user’s choice of platform and not try to change the platform to earn your 30% more. If you really hate it - don’t develop for Apple. I mean at the end of the day you can tell your customers buy an Android phone and see what they prefer - your app or the Apple eco system.

Except usage of private APIs?

So we should allow random app stores and browsers and magically keep the privacy?

Yeah 100% the other stores will not allow for private APIs and circumvent privacy protections and anti-tracking mechanisms. I would 100% believe Facebook on the App Store vs Facebook on the Meta store will be the same…

I have bought an iPhone and not your app. You have no relationship with me without me choosing iOS. That’s it. I’m your user and I want to get my apps from the App Store. Respect that decision. Don’t make me go outside the ecosystem I have chosen so you can make you 30%. I say that as a developer who gets charged the 30% as I respect the fact the user decided to use that specific platform for whatever reason they have.

Mine as a consumer is that Apple doesn’t have dark patters when I want to cancel my subscription with your app. When I try to cancel my membership for something else like a magazine or the gym I have to go over 10 steps…

You have freedom to chose the platform.

Apart from just your statement this is the first time I hear about this. I mean there is trafficking everywhere but you statement makes it sound like it’s on a much grander scale. Care to provide more info?

To me it's the fact that it just works and I use it as a smart phone and not as a General Purpose Computer. There is a lot of ecosystem stuff on iOS that are just missing from Android. Plus the skinning of each manufacturer is/was terrible. Samsung's early TouchWiz was incredibly terrible...

I also use Android when I need more access to different things e.g. portable pocket pc that runs Linux.

How is PrivacyPass related to iOS?

It actually does!! I’m very happy to use web apps.

As for legacy - pretty sure the markets, users and developers will disagree with you

Plus my experience on Android has been terrible. BUT some ppl like it. I don’t go and shit on them and tell them it’s terrible. I write my apps to support Android as much as possible. If there are issues I’d prioritise iOS but that’s because it’s my platform of choice. The same way you have the right. AND that is fine

Not really. I have been on HN for some time. I like the debates that happen here. This is probably one of the only topics I feel very strongly about.

Again nobody has managed to challenge my point that if you want side loading there is another platform you can use. Why does every platform needs to be so open? You wanna tell me there are NO benefits from a closed platform?

I can still side load using my Dev Account so I want a specific app - I’ll build it and have it. Anyone can side load with a dev account so the entire point as I keep coming back is because of the revenue to developers not freedoms.

Literally the new attack vector I described above. It’s one more thing to worry about.

Buy an Android phone then. We have one closed and one open platform