US smartphone shipments fall sharply, but Android more than iPhone | Hacker News Reader

US smartphone shipments fall sharply, but Android more than iPhone

counterpointresearch.com

224 pointsretskrad775 comments

The link should really be to the original report [0].

This 55% is iPhone's share of phone shipments in Q2, not the number of users of the respective phones at any given time. In other words, fewer people are buying smartphones than were before, but Apple saw less of a hit to their numbers than everyone else did.

Contrary to existing comments here, this stat doesn't appear to indicate that people are switching from Android to iPhone. It looks like Android users are more likely to avoid upgrading their phone in an uncertain economy, while Apple users are more likely to upgrade regardless.

[0] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-smartphone-shipments...

The Android market is way way harder to pin down than the iPhone market. Manufacturers have been walking out software support horizons in the Android world, which should have an impact. To the extent that Android users have shifted toward Samsung and Pixels, that would also tend to walk out the software support window of the Android cohort. And finally, last year there were crazy sales that I don't think have been as good this year, from what I've seen. I upgraded from S21 to S22 ultra last year for $18, no contract term.

OTOH, Qualcomm seems to have closed the gap in SOC performance and efficiency with 8gen2.

Another sign of the HN bubble. Google only has lifetime sells of 27.6 million pixels over 6 generations

https://www.phonearena.com/news/pixel-7-pro-6a-google-best-s...

Apple is estimated to sell twice that many in a quarter

https://www.statista.com/statistics/299153/apple-smartphone-...

>> This 55% is iPhone's share of phone shipments in Q2, not the number of users of the respective phones at any given time.

That's generally what a "market share" number measures: the share of sales during a period of times.

The number of users of devices would be the "installed base."

>That's generally what a "market share" number measures: the share of sales during a period of times.

We don't measure Browser Market Share as number of downloads during a period of times. Nor do we measure OS market share as number of license sold during a quarter.

The reason why Market Share, or share of sales during a period of times were used for commodity, repeatable sales. Because knowing you have 50% of Ketchup sales meaning you own 50% of the Ketchup market.

And when you talk to average people, no one would think Market Share of Browser, OS, Photoshop, as Sales over period of time. The same goes with Apple and Android, when you talk about market share, people will think usage. Not shipment.

Unfortunately even on HN the two is 99% mixed up. As a matter of fact this is the first time someone mention this difference that even gets enough attentions to be the top voted comment.

Well, yeah, but androids and iphones are not "one and done purchases" but are interfaces with a 30% profit margin on digital goods.

I'm constantly amazed by how people spend so much of their income on Apple products; it's almost like their lives are ruled by the status they feel an iPhone brings (and the consequential sacrificial purchasing).

It likely varies by area and average income, here it's almost an inverse correlation - the less-well off kids at school tend to have parents on iPhones and the comfortable parents are on whatever works for them.

I’m astounded by the pervasiveness of this meme, given its origins are really from a Mac vs PC internet flame war era that I would like to think we’ve moved past.

I’m astounded by the fact that one can imply with a straight face no less that over half the market are status-driven dorks that have no legitimate reason to use an iPhone over an Android phone, the obviously superior for all people in all circumstances choice used by the enlightened few that aren’t concerned with such banal things as social status.

Occam’s razor would imply that this view is perhaps wrong and that you’re just missing something.

I use an iPhone for a lot of reasons. One of these is that I’m legally blind. For my purposes, accessibility features on iOS easily run rings around those on Android. Full stop. Arguing against that is ridiculous. Sectioning me out and saying “I wasn’t talking about you@ because disability is a sacred cow is ridiculous.

Just please don’t make these conversations so charged with this tired old rhetoric that simultaneously chastises such a wide group for imagined status-seeking in a way that simultaneously ties your own (non-iPhone) choice in to an imagined desirable personality trait.

> I'm constantly amazed by how people spend so much of their income on Apple products

I don't know about other people, but I went iPhone specifically for the value/$. Got a used iPhone SE 2020 for $150 in late 2021, and expect to use it for 5+ years. I seriously doubt that there are any Androids out there that could get even close to that.

It really helps that Apple's CPU/SoC is substantially superior to what everyone else uses, so older iPhones tend to feel snappier. Between that and Apple's clearly superior OS support, I don't know why value shoppers who don't want to install their own firmware would go with Android.

No mate, people value themselves and get the best thing they can have. Smartphones are so essential now and used 24/7, don't cheap out on it. You don't cheap out on food either. Nothing to do with status. Not all about Apple either, there are nice premium Android phones as well. What are you doing, saving for a golden tombstone?

You make a big assumption that it is all about status or that status is a simple equation.

From what I have seen, Android phones appeal to people who want or must spend as little as possible on their phones. It also appeals to people who want to tweak and customize their phones. There is a brand appeal among some of those people to be the anti-Apple.

Apple does appeal to some for brand identity. It also seems to appeal to people who are buying a phone that they can just take out of the box and use without spending much time in setup and configuration.

I bought an iPhone because Android vendors kept leaving me high and dry after a few years. I'm now on year 6 with the iPhone and it's still working great. As I understand it, I have another year or two before Apple stops supporting it with updates.

That makes the iPhone far cheaper than any comparable Android phone I could have bought back then.

Maybe today Android vendors are offering longer support horizons but I've been burned multiple times and won't trust that ecosystem again.

To me this feels more like the situation where someone with money in the bank can buy $200 shoes which will last 10 years, while someone living paycheck to paycheck has to keep buying $40 shoes that fall apart after a year.

> and the comfortable parents are on whatever works for them

So, not necessarily Androids, but whatever they happen to choose? I'm not sure what we're observing, that people just use whatever phone they prefer? Honestly, iPhones aren't a heck of a lot more expensive than a flagship Pixel phone, especially not for a multi-year tech investment. The "iPhones are expensive" propaganda is underinformed. Apple computers on the other hand are way more expensive than the equivalent hardware in the PC ecosystem, however they also hold their value quite well for resale whereas I've found it quite difficult to offload old gaming PCs in the past. Usually people just want the CPU and GPU, if they're not older than about 4 years. The rest of the carcass just gets piled into an ever-growing closet stash of old PC components. If you have a Macbook on the other hand, you'll have a dozen people asking if it's still available every day until you sell it. Even if it's a relic, just with a working battery and hard drive.

My bias in this conversation is that I've owned an iPhone 12 since late 2020 with no signs of needing an upgrade anytime soon. I don't know anybody living in poverty but shoveling all of their money into Apple tech.

You’re amazed that people pay a premium price for very premium products that they interact with constantly?

Do you also question why people buy quality shoes or mattresses?

It is not the status.

Americans love to consume. They think their consumption brings them happiness. One of their most delightful purchases is a new phone.

iPhones just work. Macs just work. 99% of people don’t want to spend time configuring anything.

Both iOS and Android stopped innovating like 5 years ago, but at least the Apple ecosystem doesn’t feel dead like Android.

I'm amazed at the emotionality of people who dislike Apple. I guess it's a classic projection thing where those with strong emotions opposed assume that those who disagree must do so out of the polar opposite emotion.

Apple products are less expensive the more money you make. Not just as a relative income statement, but because of resale value. You can buy a new $1000 phone every single year and end up spending $300/year net of taxes and depreciation. You just have to have the capital that you can tie up.

Do you have evidence of that or is it just based on anecdotes? Studies have been done that show the opposite of what you are claiming; eg https://www.deseret.com/2018/7/11/20648686/do-you-own-an-iph..., https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5933261/iPho..., etc…

I'm on an iPhone 7 Plus since a year. It's an old model that I bought secondhand. It was partly experiment. I was using an Android phone: Motorola G5 (also old). I love that G5, but I have the variant with only 16GB internal memory, which is simply not enough nowadays. For me the G5 is still fast enough, but every time there are app updates, I need to free space so the update can install.

My wife was already using a second hand iPhone and convinced me to try it too. I got that iPhone 7 Plus for cheap, it is in really good condition and it has 256GB internal memory. I was aware it would be stuck on iOS 15, but to my surprise, Apple still sends out security updates for iOS 15. I just checked: my phone is on 15.7.7 and I noticed 15.7.8 came out just a couple of days ago. See [1].

I know that Apple is a closed eco-system and all, but for my phone I don't care that much. My phone just has to work. I still use Google products (maps, mail, calendar, keep, chat), but those run just fine on iOS. The other apps I use, are also working just fine (no performance issues).

To me, it's amazing that a phone from 2016 is still receiving security updates. That is simply non-existent in Android world. As someone who does not have the urge to always have the latest and hottest, that is very nice to see.

[1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212788

I watched a dating show episode, Updating, on YouTube. At one point the fact that the guy was using an Android and not an iPhone was a major "ick" (point of revulsion) to the audience and the (otherwise stunning) female contestant.

Wtaf? Just had to shake my head. Ironically, my S21 Ultra with 16GB of memory/512 of storage was way ahead of anything Apple had made at time of release, probably cost the same as their top model at the time, and is still punching hard with no need whatsoever for me to .. update.

By and large the Android phones cost the same as iPhones, so I don't understand this criticism.

> […] the status they feel an iPhone brings […]

I am baffled why people keep making this asinine remark.

Stock iPhone is not status. Vertu is status (and is an Android platform), moreso the Vertu Signature line. Aftermarket modded iPhones that are encrusted with gold and diamonds are status. The former is the Jane Birkin bag of the smartphones, the latter is pure bling. Both send the same message: I have done financially exceptionally well (or my daddy has paid for it).

iPhone is equally unobtanium to anyone pre-launch nor does Apple make bespoke or customised editions for anyone, both of which also obliterate its purported status symbol. Ironically, it actually makes iPhone more equal and less status compared the status smartphones.

iPhone might be a status symbol in low income countries, and so are Samsung Galaxy's, the top of the range Huawei's, Xiaomi's and whatever else expensive there is out there.

Probably because when they buy something they want it to work.

I was a die hard android fan boy. Owned nearly all android flagships.

I first was driven away from the Google branded phones because it was clear their priorities where something other than providing me the best hardware and software experience.

Then I was driven away from Samsung because too much bloat and advertisements within the core OS.

None is the home integration worked right. Too fractured and error prone.

I got tied of seeing people use their iPhones to get shit done and not needing to tinker heir damn phone all the time.

The iPhone is a tool. A well thought out tool that gets the fuxk out of my way so I can do the things I want. Android. IRS a toy. It’s an advertisement delivery vehicle. On Android you are the customer not the user.

I’ve switched back and forth. Just had worse experience overall on android. Maybe I’ll try them in another few years. For a low budget I went through 3 androids and settled on a used iPhone which was waaay more stable.

It may just be that people who have lower income, and are guided by "status" may make worser choices or are can't/don't understand financial implications or maybe they are just doing their best to "peacock" and fit in with what they think is the right tool to achieve their goals?

It's nothing new, you could've said the same thing in the 90's about Sega, Nintendo and Playstation and with Shoes, Clothes, anything -

I push back super hard on the "status" thing for Apple products. I don't understand what status it brings you and who gives you that status.

I used to get an iphone every year. Since it was for work, it was tax deductible, so I could sell last year, and make a small profit each year.

You should look at the costs of most of the high-end Android phones. Apple does not sell the most expensive phones!

"People don't need high-end phones" perhaps, but somehow I don't see people making this comment about Samsung phones.

iphone 14 is only $800! Meanwhile loads of high-end Android phones are at $1000+. The meme is dead

You’re right. I spent an extra $14 on an iPhone 12 vs the Samsung. Now I have a blue bubble, and people treat me like I’m smart and better looking. Combined with drinking the beer I learned about on the Super Bowl ads, women think I’m cool too.

I use iPhones because I can get 5-7 years of use out of each one. Can you recommend an Android phone that has the same level of software support? Preferably something that also works properly with my MacBook, because that is what I use for work.

I have a ton of Apple products and I could not care less about the status they confer. They just genuinely have a better end to end user experience most of the time. They do, for the most part, live up to the “just works” mantra.

Are you really constantly amazed? iPhone user here. I don’t see my phone as a status symbol. I just like it much better. If you like Android better, that’s cool too.

It's quite clear that iPhone is a vending machine owned by Apple sitting in your pocket. Status has little to do with it.

I spend money on Apple products because I have been routinely delighted by them and have never once been burned.

One or two purchases every two or three years isn't exactly breaking the bank.

Probably spend more on coffees or alcohol.

Yeah. At this point it’s becoming very toxic. Like people with iPhones look down on people with android phones. It’s becoming a societal pressure.

It isn’t any different than buying Nike, Gucci, or Michael Kors. Many folks are extremely brand and status conscious.

Appearing high status is more important than many other expenses.

Time is valuable, and the ecosystem of Android phones is filled with time-wasting BS: bloatware, OEM specific UIs, varying device quality, lack of OEM support, confusing accessory compatibility, a marketplace full of malware, etc.

For the type of people here that like to tinker with tech this might be a non-issue, but some other people just want to use the device to accomplish tasks with as little friction as possible.

> Android users are more likely to avoid upgrading their phone in an uncertain economy,

I would probably be typing this on a recent Pixel if it had a damn headphone jack.

(Or even an external ~magsafe-for-headphone.)

Instead I'm still wringing value out of a 3a.

i worked a little in this space in the past. what we learned was that most people don't switch, but if they do, it's overwhelmingly in the android->ios direction and not the other way around (this is in the US). you may see some anecdotal evidence otherwise but on aggregate that was true

Anecdotal support for you claim: gave my dad and his wife two of my older iPhones to replace their Android phones. They'll never look back now.

He told me he assumed the fawning over iPhones was "hype", now says he believes it is not.

I know a couple of people who did that, but they switched from a $200 android to a ~$1000 iphone, and were amused at how much better it is. Users who had flaghship androids rarely switched, because their phones were good too.

Yes, I've seen something similar, it's easy to switch from Android and get into Apple's ecosystem, but once in it's difficult to get out.

My brother-in-law would love to switch out, but he feels stuck in Apple's ecosystem because switching now would mean either causing a lot of friction for his family or he'd have to change many devices at once.

Anecdotally, some part of it is also the hype which makes people who use a mediocre Android switch to the iPhone. Once in the ecosystem its significantly harder to switch back. All of my friends who use a high-end Android haven't switched and don't want to.

Also kids favor Ios, they like messenger and they play games with each other when they are in the same room, I'm just paraphrasing my 14 year old. So maybe it just reflects more new entrants? As in kids getting their first phone, whereas the older cohort might be more evenly distributed.

True but I’d say the switching is happening too. Every people in my circle(s) are actually switching to iPhones mostly due to implicit peer pressure.

Ok, we've switched to that URL from https://9to5mac.com/2023/07/28/us-iphone-market-share-2/. Thanks!

I've also attempted to make the title less misleading.

I'm part of this statistic. I've been an Android user my entire adult life, but it really has been a constant downward spiral over these past several years. My previous three phones from LG, Motorola, and Xiaomi all had major software bugs that were never fixed, the biggest being just incredibly poor network connectivity (across multiple carriers, mind you) resulting in at least several calls just not connecting to me. I switched to an iPhone SE several months ago and have had zero issues whatsoever. I resent that my money went to a company like Apple, but there really is no alternative if you want a decent cell phone in 2023.

I kind of went the other way, I have had androids since 2010ish, then tried an iphone at the beginning of corona since my old sony phone couldn't run teams properly. Had it for 2 years and hated it so much I went back to android.

I couldn't even install a separate browser like firefox that was not just a skin and the ad-block on safari drove me crazy. It only prevented items from being displayed but not the network requests etc.

Also, it was nagging me a lot, constantly asking for me to sign up to icloud and other things.

Back on a pixel phone now and couldn't be more happy really.

Yeah, I don't see how Apple can claim to prioritize privacy when they won't even allow real ad blocking.

"there really is no alternative if you want a decent cell phone in 2023" is just plain wrong.

I try to avoid lumping all of the android manufacturers together and treat them individually when comparing them to apple.

LG, Motorola, and Xiaomi are not as good as apple but Samsung is. Decent argument to be made for OnePlus, Google, and Asus matching apple as well.

Having switched from Android to iPhone recently, it’s not even the quality of the phone. It’s the insane fragmentation, incomplete features, and random breaking features.

I finally gave up when a pair of Bluetooth headphones couldn’t pair with my phone. I realized that there are simply too many variations of Android for device manufacturers to test. With an iPhone, you know that most accessories are going to be tested against your specific model.

Now that I’m on an iPhone, the integration between various device is insane. Answer a call in your watch, transfer it to your phone, then move it to your laptop. Seamlessly, cast music to speakers/tv/bluetooth and it just works, every single time.

> but Samsung is

My current phone is a Samsung and I find it disappointing. Perhaps their good ones are limited to specific models?

My limited experience using friends' and family's Samsung phones is that they are the worst out of all of them. Absolutely nothing but bloated, buggy software that you can't disable.

Samsung is disappointing than Xiomi. My Mi phone lasted 4 years and after switching to samsung, it didn't even last more than 2 years. After the battery died, samsung became useless.

I'm part of this statistic too, in a different way. Android worked perfectly for me, but the OS was increasingly dumbed down and Androids consistently threw out features I loved. (Headphone jack, expandable storage, full rectangular screens).

Androids threw away their market differentiation just to become bad iPhone clones. When I found myself needing a new phone, I had little reason not to consider an iPhone.

I bought an SE, then bought a Pixel 4a because of iOS issues, but I am here again considering an iPhone as my 4a nears EOL. I share your resentment of giving money to Apple.

I am also part of this statistic. I feel like android dumbed down the google assistant. Sometimes I am no longer sure what app is called on hey google. In comparison to Bixby, the tech became worse.

I would have switched to SE if my wife did not get me a pro for my birthday (to communicate in iMessage). And now I am on this boring phone no longer passionate about phones anymore.

When the choice is between Apple and Google, why do you resent giving money to Apple?

I need to replace my Pixel 4a too. Have you considered the Pixel 6a?

I remember a friend telling me why use iPhone instead of Android:

"I already deal with problems at work, I don't want to deal with problems with my phone"

Truer words never said, I also had several androids over the years which went crazy after some time, switched to iPhone, never an issue again.

Yup, for something so critical in my life, I just want the damn thing to work. While I would love to tinker with an Android, I just don't have the energy for that (I did a decade ago) nor the time to troubleshoot problems that come up.

I’ve used both, currently on an iPhone, and I can’t understand this sentiment at all. Both are shitty in different ways.

Same. My last two androids literally didn't work as cell phones -- calls dropped all the time, SMS messages consistently failed to send, etc.

I guess now I'm an Apple person, but I didn't choose Apple per se... I just needed a phone that actually worked.

And switching platforms is so painful, I'm not going to switch back unless Apple shits the bed as badly as Android did.

Same. I had to make around 300 phone calls for a recent health ordeal by my rough estimates^. I went through 3 androids and settled on used iPhone after learning my lesson. I can’t tell you how frustrating it was to drop calls/not be heard/screen freeze/no ring. A cheap 3 year old iPhone worked so, so much better.

^if you’re on “Obamacare”, which is a godsend, finding a specialist on your own equates to being given an excel sheet with extremely uncurated or simply incorrect listings. Then finding a specialized occupational therapist after surgery, etc, etc.

Funny, my last android was samsung which I had many of the issues you describe above, and in particular it felt very bloated. I've been getting older generation Pixel S and they are very good for the price. usually 1/4 the price of a comparable flagship iOS and I never have any issues.

Samsung is the Apple of android.

Big marketing budget, mid performance at best.

> I resent that my money went to a company like Apple

When comparing Apple to a companies like LG, Motorola, and Xiaomi, what do you find to be worse about Apple? Genuine question.

Steve Jobs was one of America's greatest assholes

I'm not a fan of them either, but at least they aren't positioned in a way to abuse their status as much as Apple is.

Why do you resent that your money went to a company who put a good device in your hand? I'd resent giving money to a company who can't be bothered to make a device that makes me happy.

I'm pretty sure you could fill a library with how much this topic has been discussed over the years, but iOS doesn't make everyone happy. It's entirely possible to enjoy the stability while also being frustrated by Apple's software design choices.

>>really is no alternative if you want a decent cell phone in 2023.

False, Pixel phone. Same deal as the manufacturer of the OS is making the hardware so you get tighter integration

The best and tightest integration is when the ad network, phone OS, and hardware are all made by the same people.

Interesting you didn't name the two brands that are true, non-Chinese flagship Android: Pixel and Samsung.

If you want true software freedom on a phone, there is GrapheneOS on Pixel. I think Samsung is the better UI of the two, but if my Samsung breaks I think I'll go pixel and go graphene.

I've been using Google Fi as a wireless provider for years and have been using their phones as a result. I've only once ever had an issue with one of the phones from a software standpoint and it took me a while to figure out how to port over my contacts (I had to export them to an Apple format and then import them). I've stayed away from Apple products because (1) the Google products don't have a ton of corporate fluff like Samsung products, (2) Apple phones tend to do "magic" things that just annoy the hell out of me, and (3) Android Auto just works.

I've been thinking about switching to an iPhone because I'm tired of never upgrading my phone to avoid it breaking, but the fact that I can't install ReVanced or an adblocker stops me. I don't know if I'll ever change my mind on this, lack of good ad blocking really is a dealbreaker for me.

Curious, why do you "resent" your money going to Apple?

Because they're hostile to general purpose computing.

For me it's things like iCloud Photos having no API to access them and no reasonable way to pull them out or back them up. So very much a trap. Among other things.

https://stallman.org/apple.html

As long as we are comparing anecdotes I've used a cheap one note Android for years and it's amazing

Yep I get way better service on iPhones. Even with wifi calling. I get 0-2 bars where I live. With my iPhone I don’t even have a tenth of the same reception problems.

> My previous three phones from LG, Motorola, and Xiaomi all had major software bugs

I see this pattern with a lot of IPhone users. They tried the cheapest worst quality android phones and came away with a bad taste in the mouth. So iPhone is the only "decent cellphone in 2023". My dude you never tried the good android phones. Get a Samsung galaxy flagship. These are at par, if not better than the similarly priced iPhone model in all respects.

i think the point is all iphones are pretty solid. Androids range from "at par" to crap.

Me too. Love android UI more actually, the screens more, and the fast charging more, but a few things such as the photos/videos are what drew me to finally get a 13 pro max. I still use android on a wifi only phone and tablet and enjoy it but iphone is nice for daily driver and because the photos i can take and battery life post charge when full seems to be longer.

I've had both Pixels and iPhones (work phone). They're mostly the same to me, except that iphones are much more expensive for no good reason (besides branding). I like that they still make small phones though. Was super happy with my pixel 4a, but they don't make such small phones anymore unfortunately.

Newest Pixel Fold is $1800. It seems like Google has become increasingly willing to compete in the high end market.

I mainly used Samsung phones with KISS launcher and very few apps (not even Google Play); it has been more or less stable throughout the years.

KISS launcher is one of the main reasons I gave my iPhone XS to my dad. On iOS I'm not even allowed to place app icons where I want to. The freedom to install any app I want is another main advantage.

Most people just want their defaults to be good enough but there's no reason to limit those that want something that works better for them.

Obviously iOS does some things incredibly well. E.g. gesture navigation on Android is objectively worse than on iOS.

How are we still, 15 years later, stuck in the feigned incredulity stage of android vs ios?

"I don't see how anyone still buys an ____. How can you not see the overwhelming evidence that ____ is unequivocally the better phone?"

If either device can fit in either blank, as it has all over this thread, perhaps that's because there hasn't been any undeniably impactful feature improvements on either platform in the last decade.

Tribalism. Just like politics and brand preferences in other economic sectors (cars, computers, and so on).

I for one think both Android and iOS are pretty awful operating systems. I still look forward to a viable third option, and would especially enjoy a phone that functions more like an accessory or terminal to my computer, rather than a first-class computer in its own right.

I quite like Android in it's more libre form, disconnected from artificial manufacturer-imposed restrictions, ie. LineageOS.

I tend to purchase hardware based on the availability (or likely availability) of 3rd party ROM support.

It's a useful signal: these people aren't worth engaging with.

> How are we still, 15 years later, stuck in the feigned incredulity stage of android vs ios?

We aren't. Sent from my Librem 5.

> Despite inflation numbers falling through the quarter and ongoing strength in the job market, consumers hesitated to upgrade their devices amid market uncertainty.”

> Apple’s resilience was driven by strong promotions across postpaid and prepaid. Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile continued to offer $800+ promo credits for the iPhone 14 while old-generation iPhones were also steeply discounted across prepaid. We are seeing no weakness in the overall promotional activity.

Perfect storm, especially for a broke-ass like me. When it stops being about features and starts being about "cheap"...

Then again, I'm going dumb phone next month, which is _even cheaper_. Take that, smartphone market!

I have a love/hate relationship with Verizon. Okay, more often hate/hate, but still. They have the best network in this area when we're out in the sticks. But their pricing is pretty high. They'll offer $800 on a new iPhone, and then the credit comes one month at a time over 36 months. Meanwhile, you're paying $70-80 per phone. You might as well take the upgrade when available, if you're going to stick with them, because otherwise you're just paying for other people's upgrades.

I'd switch to Visible (the Verizon prepaid) and pay half the price, except they don't yet support standalone Apple watches. So we continue to pay almost $200/mo for a family of four (with only two real smartphones), because of those watches. Some day the kids will be old enough that my wife will let them have smartphones, and we'll switch to some plan that costs half as much.

Who else has cheap data sims? Is this still a killer feature of GoogleFi alone (one time $5 fee for a data sim)?

I really wish companies would be happy to sell data. Making a bunch of addon charges to get me to he point where I can consume data is such a defiance of what these companies best utility should be: carrying data.

The one other thing that almost wholly shapes who I'd go with for an MVNO is what speed I get after soft cap. Everyone has unlimited & everyone will eventually slow you down to much slower speeds: what life is like after that threshold is why I cling to my absurdly expensive very grandfathered Verizon Unlimited, which they won't even let me bump my SMS allowance on.

I use visible. It has been trash basically everywhere I go. I live in austin and it's almost completely useless there. I haven't traveled to a single area yet where I've been happy with the service.

Check if your phone supports Band 71 and even better if there is a tower which broadcasts on it near you: https://www.cellmapper.net/

If there is, you can probably find success with T-Mobile or their MVNOs

Example: https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=310&MNC=260&type=LTE&lati...

I switched to prepaid MVNO because I didn't want to do research everytime I made a billing decision with Verizon / ATT.

Give me a monthly price. Give me a monthly data number. Then stop talking.

What a wreck. Then, I'm never surprised. It's always been a rip-off built on having the "next best thing" at all times. Well, a price is paid for that, as you demonstrate. Blech!

visible is a good deal as long as your area isn't oversubscribed for verizon (luckily mine isn't).

any reason why the watches have to be completely standalone? does the family setup not work for having multiple watches managed by one phone?

I also don't want to spend a lot of money on phones and when my last android phone broke (dropped it one too many times and the glass shattered) I got an iPhone SE. But I kind of hate it. When the better goes (which will only be a few years, I'm amazed at how poor the capacity is, you really don't get a lot of value with low end apple phones) I'm going to switch back to cheap android with a big battery. I'm a low-usage phone user so android was fine for me.

For me the sweet spot is an SE with a battery case. A ‘full size’ phone still wouldn’t cut it with my usage, so this way it’s heavy, but still fairly compact and gets the job done.

Ha, what a world! I've known that Apple's actually been fairly competitive from a cost benefit analysis wise for a long time at the hardware level but it's very funny to see a comment associating Apple with being the cheaper option.

Edit: I see you answered below ;-)

Which dumbphone are you getting? (Nokia) That's awesome. I've been doing a PHONEVORCE lately... it's been several years in the making as I've shed all social media, and deleted and blocked nearly everything that I can waste time on with my phone.

Now my phone use is for looking at maps, checking which aircraft are nearby, email, and direct messaging.

It's pretty calm! I'm reading more, mental health seems very good, I learn neighborhoods really well cause I don't use GPS.

It's really nice not staring at that fucking box all the time.

Omg I've been describing it as a phone divorce as well.

For all the same reasons.

With all of the same external requirements like maps.

...

Are you me?

What did you settle on? I’m starting to fantasize this reality too. I have an iPhone now.

That's just an exercise though really. You NEED a smartphone nowadays for everyday life: banking, gym access, maps, etc.

I'm going to be getting a Nokia 6300 4G. Smart enough to have google maps, dumb enough to stay out of my head.

I've been recommended to "just get a GPS" -- they're like $300, and I'm cheap :) so my dumpy little phone will have to do the job. That's like, the #1 thing I _really need_ out of a phone; the rest is distracting trash.

The best part is that you can pay _ridiculously low_ prices month to month through various carriers. Like $15 / month in the US, on top of the phone being $70. Good stuff in my opinion. I thought I was getting off good with ~$45 a month for Google Fi.

> going dumb phone next month, which is _even cheaper_

You sure it's cheaper? I've been unable to find a dump phone for a good price - a used smartphone on eBay is far far cheaper. Also a Chinese android phone, and just don't use the "smart" parts.

Yeah, $70 for a new Nokia! Not bad if you ask me.

Apple messaging lockin is having the desired impact. Combine that with Google's mess of a strategy and it is easy to see why this is happening.

It is why it is so critical to hire the right people in leadership to avoid squandering key, already successful, strategic positions.

That’s just such a US. American problem that it is honestly, kind of funny in a dumb way from any other part of the world. Like SMS itself is a legacy, insecure tech, it really should not be used at all anymore, unless you really only know their phone number. Knowing that you are not sending SMS when you see a blue bubble, but apple just conveniently put their internet-based message system into the same app is not a hard concept. Similarly, you can install Telegram, Whatsapp, Messenger, Signal, Element X (which I all have installed besides Whatsapp) and communicate with people available through those application at the utterly tiny inconvenience of having to open that app first.

You can’t send images/videos through a Short Messaging Service, period. That’s not apple being anticompetitive, this is literally the technology’s limitation. It is also terrible from an encoding point of view, and probably why the rest of the world had no problem ditching it for most things, as sending an Unicode message takes up plenty characters, making you have to send 2 messages even with moderately long text. (I remember removing ‘ö’s and spaces when I was a child and had stricter limits on the number of SMSs in my plan.

People are just eating what Google says raw. Apple will just need to implement RCS and everything will be better.

Don't worry that the only universally available RCS relay is operated by Google and encryption is a part of a non-standard Google extension. So Google wants Apple to hand all messages over to Google.

For fun, Apple should propose to implement RCS but only if Google agrees to use the Apple relay. No chance it would ever be accepted.

> Similarly, you can install Telegram, Whatsapp, Messenger, Signal, Element X (which I all have installed besides Whatsapp) and communicate with people available through those application at the utterly tiny inconvenience of having to open that app first.

...and the not insignificant inconvenience of knowing which of these apps each of your contacts uses or prefers. There really is a network effect of most people in a particular circle just using one thing. For US iPhone users at least, that thing is iMessage.

Indeed. WhatsApp has like 99.9% of market share in central/south America? Nobody use SMS or iMessage over there.

Yes, it is a US centric view, but it also explains why iOS market share is nearly unstoppable in the US. It will likely tilt much farther in that direction if there aren't fundamental changes in how people use messaging.

> Like SMS itself is a legacy, insecure tech, it really should not be used at all anymore, unless you really only know their phone number.

I use SMS mostly because the only people I know who don't are using Facebook stuff and I'm not going to do that. But I am nervous about the say when people stop using SMS so much because I don't look forward to having to have multiple messaging apps and trying to remember who is using what.

> You can’t send images/videos through a Short Messaging Service, period.

I do that all the time.

90% of people I message with use WhatsApp or Signal (and most of them use iPhones). I keep hearing about iOS messaging lock in, but I've never experienced it.

It’s a US only thing. And only for people in the US who don’t regularly communicate with people outside the US.

I moved out of the US and most of my US friends I still have to use iMessage to talk to. Only a few are active on WhatsApp.

Are you in the US? Every time that comes up that tends to be a huge divide. US uses iMessage, other countries don’t.

This article was about US market share.

Where do to live? Zero people in the USA i know use them that dont talk to out of country family

What is the messaging lock-in? I have lots of text threads with mixed Android+iPhone users, and never have any problem.

Those plain SMS threads are green instead of blue. That lets iPhone owners judge Android owners from afar. /s

Only half kidding. The real issue is just SMS vs data. And a little bit of feature parity - it's changed a few times, but until recently, if I "liked" a message in an SMS thread, we'd all see something like "Alistair like 'something said by somebody'" instead of just applying the thumb-up icon. This only gets worse for media sharing, link shares/snapshots, etc.

A simple example is the media sharing quality is horrendous when you transcend the iPhone/Android boundary. Can you communicate, yes. Is it as good as an all iMessage interaction, no.

SMS can only handle a certain number of phone numbers. If a non-iPhone user receives a group message where their number is past the limit, they cannot reply. It has happened with my mother a number of times.

https://www.android.com/get-the-message/

Android users that interact with iphone users via the default messaging apps end up going over SMS. This has a lot of annoying limitations (can't modify groups, for example).

iOS users will tell you how terrible that is and effectively put pressure on people to switch to iOS "like everyone else".

I'm not sure if I even have any regular contacts who have iPhones, as an iPhone user.

Everyone uses Discord or Facebook Messenger. Or Slack for coworkers.

Its annoying as hell, because iMessage isn't really useful when most of the people I write to don't have an iPhone.

100% I blame Google though, they need to get their ass together and make their own. It needs to work with everbody who already have a google account and they need to commit to it for 10 year minimum.

Then it is reasonable for Apple to create a system so they can talk together.

> It needs to work with everbody who already have a google account and they need to commit to it for 10 year minimum

This already exists. 10 years ago, Google Hangouts was separated from Google+. It is currently accessible through the Gmail web interface, Gmail app, and "Chat" app.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...

Google built more messaging apps than people have fingers in one hand, possibly two. They are not good at them.

Even if they would, what's the incentive for Apple to become interoperable? They want a moat and people that buy what they sell inside the moat.

What's wrong with RCS?

I don't understand -- are Android users not able to receive your iPhone text messages? I've never had that problem.

Google created RCS - it does exactly what you are requesting.

But support for it is tepid - even Google Voice doesn't support it.

The original linked report is far less biased [1]. It seems the only reason there is demand for iphones right now is the heavy subsidies offered by carriers. I think few people are paying retail for those phones.

1: https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-smartphone-shipments...

I'm thinking of making the switch to iPhone this year once the USB-C model comes out

Whether I regret it, not sure, I mean Android isn't _that_ bad really and the Samsung phones are good, but I think Apple have nailed the ecosystem thing a lot better than what google have.

> Android isn't _that_ bad

From a support after the sale perspective? Yes it is.

The $399 2016 iPhone SE is still getting security updates today.

The original Google Pixel is also from 2016 but stopped getting any sort of updates at the end of 2019.

If you want a basic phone that will be supported as long as possible after the sale, the support length per dollar spent proposition of the SE models is pretty unbeatable.

I think this is a major factor that is driving market share towards iPhone.

This is 100% the reason I have an iPhone. I can usually eek out 5 yrs on an iphone before it’s taken one too many falls. Which has also been why any iPhone of mine has died, no other reason than I fumbled it around with no case on it…. Also much to my pleasure, the 13 mini was still available for my most recent upgrade, so now I don’t have a gigantic phone anymore either.

I have looked to get out of apples grasp, but nothing else comes close in terms of long term support, which is absolutely necessary for a device that touches all of my digital life.

> I think this is a major factor that is driving market share towards iPhone.

Few people outside of the tech nerd bubble care about this.

I had an iPhone SE 2016 model for about 5 years, really the only thing that caused me to get rid of it was apps no longer supporting the screen size. I wasn't able to use my banking app properly because things would be cut off, amongst various other apps.

I have an iPhone SE. It might still be getting security updates but the actual user experience is quite bad now; new features and apps are just not designed for it. Meanwhile the original Google Pixel doesn't have the newest security updates but Play store apps and features still work properly on it.

If you read the OP linked report, contrary to the popular sentiment here and on Apple sites, that more people hold on to their Android phones longer than iPhones despite the lack of security updates

> I think this is a major factor that is driving market share towards iPhone.

I personally couldn't care less about this. I just want a phone that works well for me.

I am still using an iPad Air 2 from 2014. In that same time span, I've had at least 4 different Android phones.

I'm considering an iPhone for my next phone, although I'm a Google Voice user which makes me a little nervous about that prospect, plus I've been less than impressed with Safari's extension ecosystem.

That 2016 phone couldn't be protected from Spectre family attacks without a ridiculous performance penalty.

What is the point in "security updates" for a CPU that can't be made secure?

I made the switch at the end of 2021 after only having an android phone since the very first one. I wouldn't say I regret the change but I would say I'm not impressed. The way so many of my friends mocked me for having an android phone and talked up their iphones made me think I _must_ be missing something. Alas, I don't feel that I was. Every once in a while I boot up my old android phone (oneplus 6) and use it and it's snappier than I remember and feels way better in my hand than my iphone does.

I kinda want to go back but we'll see.

Apple's real genius is in their marketing.

This was clear as day over 10 years ago, and is just as clear today.

Back in the early days of iPhone vs Android, there was a huge meme of iPhone users praising Apple for "inventing" features that Android had years ago [0]. I remember (but can't find right now) a screenshot of a conversation of an iPhone user all happy about iPhone getting SwiftKey and then saying "When is Android getting this? XD" and the other person responding with "About 4 years ago".

While the meme of "iPhone is better than Android because iPhone can do X" while Android has been able to do X for over 2 years no longer applies, there's still the meme that iPhone is somehow still a superior device. Apple has somehow convinced people that the iPhone is a luxury device, and there are some iPhone users that look down on Android users and think that Android is for people that can't afford iPhone, even though flagship Androids cost just as much.

It's just personal preference these days. I can't stand Apple's walled garden approach, but people that have multiple devices (laptop, tablet, phone, watch, etc) love it since it guarantees compatibility and functionality.

[0] https://imgur.com/gallery/9V2Vr

FWIW When I switched from Android->iPhone, I didn't think much of it. Some stuff was better, some stuff was worse. I didn't 'feel' that much better.

Then when I switched back from iPhone->Android (Pixel 4) the change was a lot more jarring. I noticed a lot of polish and batteries issues and I missed my iPhone until I finally switched back.

My theory is it's similar to lifestyle creep. You wont appreciate improvements as much as you'll notice regressions.

> Every once in a while I boot up my old android phone (oneplus 6) and use it and it's snappier than I remember and feels way better in my hand than my iphone does.

I wonder if you'd use it as a daily driver for a longer time if you'd have the same experience as me.

I made the switch to iphone as well in 2021 after androids for 10 years and I echo this sentiment. It's not transformational, it's more or less the same, especially compared to a pixel flagship phone.

I still use google photos because I find it better and it works fine. My next phone will be a pixel again though.

iPhone is not what it is cracked up to be. A lot of lock in. Some things are absolutely annoying. When I went to Poland, I had to change my region to download apps from appstore, it messed up all my purchase history and subscriptions.

One thing I like is that I have an iPhone 12 and have no need to upgrade, the phones have a much longer life imo.

The statement "apple stuff is just so easy and it works" is EXTREMELY misleading. When it works it works but when it doesn't you generally won't find much good advice.

> The statement "apple stuff is just so easy and it works" is EXTREMELY misleading. When it works it works but when it doesn't you generally won't find much good advice.

I've been a Mac fan since OS X came out in 2000/2001, and had iPhones and android phones for years. Just a general "I like all the OSes... and I hate all the OSes" kinda person....

The worst thing about being caught in a situation where something doesn't work right, or is just outright broken? If you go to an iphone/mac themed discussion place to discuss it, you'll probably just get called an idiot and insulted. A lot.

I also hate how iOS kinda has dark patterns to keep you locked into Apple's iCloud services. Lately, MacOS has been getting worse about that too. I think the only Apple service I can log into without causing an Apple device to freak out and have iCloud take everything over is Apple Music.

My biggest beefs are trying to export a tens-of-thousands picture library out of icloud - there's no good reliable way to do it except to tell the Photos app on a Mac to download everything locally and then wait an eternity (like literally weeks) to do so. Then you can use a python script to read the sqlite db and dump everything with correct EXIF data... (if you don't, it's a complicated mess)

My favorite is how bad the ECG app on the Apple Watch is. Especially if your older parent who has the watch on the largest text size uses it. Basically, it becomes almost impossible to dismiss the legal warning screen that pops up if you touch the grey "sine wave, 65bpm" summary thing. If you do, you have to hit a teeny tiny target at the top left of the screen to go back to that summary screen, scroll down without touching the grey box, and then hit 'done' at the bottom.

THEN you reach for your iphone and open the health app you had open before. But it doesn't show the ECG you just recorded - unless you tap the notification from the home screen. When you do, it'll exit the health app and reopen it, so that the latest ECG loads.

It is the most hilarious and fucked interaction I've seen. Like, the Apple Health App is LITERALLY BROKEN and their workaround is to make the notification force-restart the app.

What lock-in do iPhones have that isn't a thing on Android? Honestly curious.

If you live in urban areas such as NYC, upgrades are important because of signal interference from skyscrapers, subways, below-ground parking garages, basements,and tower congestion etc. The improvement in modems (eg, now X65 going to X70 Qualcomm) and transceiver electronics are improved as well as battery life. I yearly upgrade primarily but not only for that reason. The newer modems are particularly good at weak signals, eg, < 120 dBm.

I use Verizon and use iPad Pro and Apple Watch also on cellular. Works really well together.

Really depends on your use case if you are constantly piping various files from one app into another - android still has that down fairly well. Browser > NewPipe > VLC for instance.

If you are more focused on the curated ecosystem Apple does it much better.

I mostly use Android because of my work flow but I do not think many people in the grand scheme work like this.

Give iOS a try you could be plesantly surprised with it.

Every couple of years, I'd pick up an Android to see what I might be missing. My history includes the HTC1, Samsung 7, and Pixel 3.

But last time, I realized that while both types of phones were fine, the ecosystem between Apple and Android was like night and day. Even if the iPhone was a way worse phone, there'd be so much in the Apple ecosystem I'd also have to ditch. That's just a no-go.

Here's what I found from my last Android adventure:

1. The iPhone gets the basics right. It might not have the flashy AI stuff of Pixels or the folding thing from Samsungs, but it doesn't drop the ball on the basics like some others I mentioned.

2. Apple usually doesn't rush out half-done features to get people talking. New stuff is generally thought out and polished.

Adding a bit more to this, here are some things about iPhones not talked about much:

3. Attention to detail. There are loads of tiny things that on their own don't seem like a big deal, but when you put them together they make a huge difference in the experience. A lot of other phone makers overlook this in their race to jam more features in.

4. Consistency across phone generations. You usually don't see features on iPhones popping up one year only to vanish the next. Even 3D Touch hung around for 3-4 years.

5. Easy data migration between generations. I've got texts going back to 2012 when I first got an iPhone. That might not matter to some, but I don't want to lose my stuff just because I swapped phones. This is becoming more common on Android, but it's not consistent across all phone makers - unless you plug in a wire to transfer your data when you upgrade. Really, needing a wire in 2021? It's nice to have the option, but it shouldn't be the only way.

6. Generally better quality apps. There are a few Android apps that are better than their iOS counterparts, but in my experience, the scales are usually tipped in iOS's favor.

7. Apps that are only on iOS or get there first. Lots of high-quality (Apollo RIP) are still only on iOS and the developers don't seem to be in any rush to move them to other platforms. Can't say the same for many top Android apps. Also, lots of apps launch first on iOS, while the Android version drags its feet for months.

8. The iOS API. It's not perfect - it has its problems, but compared to the hot mess that the Android API can be, it's not half bad. How does this impact me as a user? Well, good APIs mean more developers can make better apps.

9. The camera. No, not the camera hardware or the fancy photography stuff. I mean how the camera works with the rest of the system and the camera APIs. Did you know that a lot of Android apps that use the camera just open it up and take a screenshot?

10. A consistent story. Apple is trying to tell a consistent story, slowly replacing many single-purpose items in your life like your wallet, keys, and ID, and even eventually your passport, with your iPhone. This is done consistently, not just stuffing whatever's new and hot into this year's phones only to toss it next year.

I could keep going, but this post is already pretty long. Maybe I'll add more another time.

There are a few other things people mention, but they aren't unique to Apple, like the hardware mute switch and Apple Pay.

Don't get me wrong - there are things about iPhones that really bug me, but this isn't the post for that. :-)

Pixel 3 was awhile ago. I quite like the hot mess of features that Android used to have. I want to try that new idea even if it doesn't work out. However, I think that's in the past now except for maybe foldable design which I'm not that interested in. It does feel like there's still some cool camera stuff coming from the Android side.

I just upgraded my Android phone, different manufacturer, the migration was done via my Google account I didn't have to plug in a cable.

> Did you know that a lot of Android apps that use the camera just open it up and take a screenshot?

I don't think I've ever seen that. I switched from iOS to Android quite some time back, I found iOS annoying because it felt like apps couldn't easily share with each other and a lot of tasks took too many steps. That was from an iPhone 5 so I imagine it's very different now, but I tried out a 14 and thought it still wasn't for me.

>>Really, needing a wire in 2021? It's nice to have the option, but it shouldn't be the only way.

Nice copypasta. Edit it better next time?

Interesting, this is what I'm considering too after exclusively using Android+Windows since forever. The enshittification of Windows is mainly what has changed my mind - worse privacy, UX, forcing users to use online accounts - but also life seems more simple when you only have Apple to consider instead of whatever shenanigans that Microsoft and Google throws at you. Furthermore, the UX of the Apple eco system seems better than anything I've encountered on Android+Windows.

One thing to note is that Apple also tries very hard to get you to log in to their online services when you use your phone or laptop. They're not as overt as MS about requiring it yet, but I would not be surprised if it was coming.

As for UX, I feel like it's hit and miss for me. With the huge caveat that I haven't used Windows 11, Windows beats MacOS in a lot of areas. For example, I prefer older versions of Windows to MacOS for window management, and Explorer is a lot better than Finder in my opinion. Those are two major pieces of the user experience!

Lock-in on Mac OS is much less for developers. Than lock-in for users on iPhone.

Careful its a prison.

nailed the ecosystem == perfected vendor lock-in?

> Android isn't _that_ bad

I recently sold a bicycle to a guy, over Craigslist. He sent me the funds with Venmo from his Pixel 7. Not only did it take tens of seconds for Venmo to initially draw itself, after that the platform offered, in a pop-up dialog, to kill the process every few seconds. The entire experience was pure jank. I don't know what that person had done to their phone but it should have been up to Android to have prevented it. That's Google's flagship phone!

Android’s problem is Pixel is the only good one, and it has not been flagship quality since the Pixel 2.

The 3 had odd issues, the 4 had a laughable battery life, and 5-7 are a weird mix of midrange and flagship capability (trending towards flagship, but not in the club yet).

All other Android vendors are on a continuum of crap, between these points:

1. loaded with bloat and customizations that aren’t better than what Google provides, whose main point is to say “but I’m not Google” (Samsung)

2. vanilla-ish Android but missing capabilities that are normal in Pixel

If Google would take Pixel seriously, it would be a credible competitor.

This "Pixel is the only good Android" sentiment is so bizarre to see. Similarly the point about Samsung devices being loaded with bloat and customizations that aren't better.

That second argument was valid like 5 years ago, but definitely not today. Samsung devices do still have a lot of customization, but most of it is actually pretty useful in my experience. Lots of little features that I hadn't realized would be nice to have and similarly to Apple, lots of cross-device integration conveniences, except that unlike Apple, they don't lock you in anywhere near as strongly. The S23U and Tab S8U are amazing devices both in hardware and software.

And then there are other pretty great devices from Sony, Motorola, OnePlus etc.

Indeed, Samsung is still dealing with the bloat reputation from the TouchWiz days, which is a shame because some of their features like multitasking are way better than stock/pixel android.

> That second argument was valid like 5 years ago, but definitely not today.

I disagree. It's still valid.

> Samsung devices do still have a lot of customization, but most of it is actually pretty useful in my experience.

Ahh, that may be why we have different experiences. You consider their stuff to be useful -- which is a totally fair opinion -- but I consider it all to be worthless bloat -- which is another totally fair opinion.

I don't mind that it's there. I do mind that I can't delete it.

Hot take: I find recent Samsung flagships far superior to what Google offers, especially the latest S23: small and speedy with longer SW support than a pixel, better CPU/GPU and better cameras, at a decent price. Bloatware and Android implementation is also not too bad.

Also Samsung DEX can save your bacon in case your laptop dies and you don't have a spare but need a quick desktop experience for some multitasking productivity task thill your laptop is being fixed.

This. Dex is Samsung's killer feature - but noone seems to know about it!? It's especially relevant to developers.

It's now common to see monitors that have an integrated usb hub - so no docking station needed. Just plug your phone in via one cable, it will charge, send video, and use keyboard+mouse.

You can have a 4k60 desktop, and then run termux and almost achieve a desktop-equivalent development environment. Unfortunately the newer android kernels are missing certain linux features so you can't run containers without rooting. If you do want to root then you can definitely have it all! Personally I don't want to spend the time tinkering to hide root from the banking apps.

It also works great for running things like Geforce Now and streaming games in 4k resolution, with a paired bluetooth controller.

To get the higher resolutions you need a newer Samsung flagship, S22/S23. And maybe also need to enable extra stuff via "i love dex" option in multistar.

Samsung blowtware is a problem though

It's reasonably small for today's bloated standards. Unfortunately it's heavy even if it's not a 200 g monster. The real problem is that it costs 3 times as much as a phone is worth. Not that I couldn't spend those money, but why?

Sony's phones seem best to me. Vanilla android with headphone jacks and microsd slots. They're just expensive. Nobody ever talks about Sony's phones for some reason but I think that's great because I wouldn't want them to get an ego and start ruining a good thing.

Overall though, what's killing Android is Android (through Google) Every release gets more limited & restrictive, as does the Play store & framework. If they want to downgrade android to be iOS, while iOS is improving, at some point I might as well just buy iOS. I think Android reached its peak around 4.4 Kitkat. I'm still sitting on 9 knowing that things get even worse on 10 & 11. Who knows what Android 12 has? Who cares?

Sony makes you send your phone to the same service center in Laredo that does all the PlayStation stuff, so warranty service can take a while.

As soon as Sony supports GCam, then I would personally buy. As of now, I'm using a Pixel 6a

>Android’s problem is Pixel is the only good one

Lol ok. I have a pixel 5a and honestly, I regret getting it over a $200 moto g power. Those phones are fantastic and you can slap a third party rom like lineage on there and use it basically forever.

Well the pixel is generally about the newest android that's the flagship software experience, with a decent camera, running on 1-2 year older hardware. But in my experience the lack of crapware and gaming benchmarks means it feels pretty snappy compared to Samsung.

I tried Samsung a few times, even with more ram it was vicious about killing tasks in the background so switching apps always did a splash screen and relaunch. Some apps do that well, others not so much. I tracked it down and apparently that behavior helps it win benchmarks. Even on a generation older hardware the pixel felt much snappier, I could multitask with 3-4 apps going, and the home button was MUCH snappier. I verified it wasn't hardware by installing Cyanogen on the samsung, and suddenly everything felt fast again.

I switched to GrapheneOS, it's only for Pixels. The seem to have moved the needle on making it your phone, not just Google's phone that they let you use. You can remove every app, even the play store. Play has to ask permission to install things.

I think of GrapheneOS as a leaner Pixel that's more secure.

Samsung's hardware is great and their One UI is a most impressive skin. Saying this as an iPhone user.

I have an old Samsung flagship with a 120Hz display, snappy and clean UI that never lags. It has survived several drops without a scratch. I was on the edge of moving to Apple but decided back then to give Android one more chance, and it was a good decision. What bothers me is the very mediocre ecosystem that stopped developing some time ago. That’s the place of the actual battle between Apple and Google. Apple moves forward, and Google doesn’t know what to do.

I think Motorola phones are OK. I personally will never buy a Motorola after an early experience with them prior to Google buying and re-rolling them. But my wife used them and liked them and they seem less shitty than they once were.

I've had a series of Nexus and Pixel phones. I had a Pixel 3 for a long long time and really, really loved it. It was such a perfect phone. I'm on Pixel 7 now and it's... alright. Compared to Pixel 3 it's big and heavy and the fingerprint scanner is on Pixel 3 was so much better. Pixel 3 was just about perfect.

I just cannot stand iPhone. Everything about them is so annoying. My kids have them. Apple's parental controls are a complete joke. I just cannot understand why anyone thinks iPhone doesn't suck. The parental controls are constantly breaking whenever one phone upgrades and etc. Screen Time settings are the most infuriating and dumb as hell stupidity ever. On the other side Google's Digital Wellbeing is also useless trash (Seriously... only per-app time limits? Does anyone at all dog food that bullshit?). But on Android you just swap it out for something that doesn't suck.

Just got an S23U 2 weeks ago. Its an impressive device both hardware and software. I was expecting a lot of bloat but looks like only MS Office apps where Non-Samsung apps pre-installed and I was going to install them myself either way.

Meanwhile, Google steps on the rake of not putting enough battery in the phone every single time. I swear I've not seen a single flagship pixel review that hasn't mentioned bad battery. If it's bad out of the box, how bad will it be in 2 years?

> Android’s problem is Pixel is the only good one, and it has not been flagship quality since the Pixel 2.

You should have added that this only applies if you exclued non-US products.

They really need to fab their SoC on something better than crappy Samsung 5nm process.

Honestly I don't know how iPhone users live without the back button (or more accurately now, the back gesture). I used an iPhone for a year (work phone) and just could not get over how much harder it was to work a large iphone. I felt like I had to reach every corner of the screen much more often than on Android.

> I don't know how iPhone users live without the back button (or more accurately now, the back gesture).

I swipe right all the time from the left edge of the screen, in most apps that goes back.

In the rare case it doesn’t, you can swipe down. But the animations help a lot, it is pretty idiomatic after a while. Something came in from the left? It goes out there as well. I converted like 2 years ago and it didn’t take a lot to get used to it.

I don't understand how anyone is satisfied with ANY "gesture" based navigation, I still have the classic android 3 button setup from the good old days. I have a dedicated back button that is ONLY a back button, so no issue with it changing the "activity" you are working in like the modern android back gesture, a dedicated home button that always goes home, and a dedicated "bring up all alive activities" button that functions exactly like alt-tab does.

Why did any of this ever need to change? Why did dedicated buttons with defined roles and useful, predictable functionality that are always available, always work, are never misinterpreted as a drag instead of a "gesture", that you don't have to know ahead of time how to interact with the OS to discover how to interact with the OS.

Why the fuck are phone OS's navigated completely by a scheme that is impossible to discover without someone teaching you?

Last time I installed LineageOS I tried the gesture navigation and it did provide a hands-on tutorial as part of enabling it.

- Swipe up (from anywhere) to access the app tray

- Swipe up and hold to see the app history / currently in-memory apps

- Swipe from the side of the screen to go back (can be configured to just be the bottom half of the screen and a "thinner" sensitivity area - which I needed because the defaults were stupid and made 'back' such a frequent accidental action).

They're the only gestures I've bothered to learn, and I get by. Still not sure it's better or worse than have the 10 pixel space at the bottom for the navigation buttons.

Gestures that can start from nearly the entire left edge are more natural-feeling to me than aiming for a fixed button.

Am I misunderstanding something, I think that gesture exists on iOS?

Swiping from the left screen edge to the right navigates back in any properly designed app.

Alternatively sheets are usually dismissed by swiping down.

Do you have particular apps or contexts in mind where this did not work?

On iOS it's app dependant, it might work or not. On Android, swiping left guarantees a going back event sent from the OS, it'll always 100% work.

Honestly I don't know how I live without the back button, either. The back button on Android 5+ stopped being "back", it's now some weird system I don't quite understand where it tracks, I think, "activities" and goes back from those, but the end result is the modern android back button is sometimes back, and sometimes close your app, which is really frustrating.

That's because what the back button on Android does is partially determined by the developers of the apps you use. If an app is written using Android Framework there's some things that will automatically add an entry to the back-stack, but many actions won't unless the developer explicitly adds them. So naturally, the back button ends up as something of a "I'm feeling lucky" button.

... there is a back swipe gesture. And it works much more consistently than Android's "Where the heck is this gonna take me" back button. Every app you can swipe back, and it's a much nicer animation than Android.

The back button is a cudgel: a sign of a poorly designed UX. Apps aren't websites, the concept of "back" is not universal, so a universal button doesn't make sense. It only exists on Android because it started off as a non-touch OS.

> there is a back swipe gesture

> Every app you can swipe back

> the concept of "back" is not universal, so a universal button doesn't make sense.

> It only exists on Android because it started off as a non-touch OS.

... so android has the exact same gesture and it's a bad thing only there because it started as a non touch OS, iOS has it but it's totally not the same concept at all and perfect.

Hmmm.

> It only exists on Android because it started off as a non-touch OS.

That doesn’t really make sense, it has very little to do with the actual interaction. It seems Android apps were originally envisaged as a collection of islands rather than one solid block. In that context the back button does make sense, you’d be jumping from “activity” to “activity” rather than app to app, and the back button would provide a logical thread through all of that.

But it didn’t work out that way at all, apps became just as centralised as iOS ones and the back button’s original functionality became kind of vestigial.

It works better because iOS had this for many years and apps implement it natively. Android's implementation is basically a workaround. The back gesture is recognized by the system and forwarded as back button event to the app. On iOS the gesture is handled by the app, which can provide proper animation, giving users the ability to “preview” what’s behind (and pull back to the left to stop going back). Android is trying to copy that right now (as they should because it works really well), but it will take many years for apps to adopt it.

That's not so bad, swiping right works well.

The _real_ pain is how bad ios autocompletion is, compared to Android's

Thankfully this is getting fixed in iOS 17. Users trying the beta are saying it's a dramatic improvement.

Luckily gboard autocomplete gets worse with every single update of the keyboard app so just wait a few more months and it will be comparable.

I am planning to make the switch this year. As a long time Pixel user, Google's support of its own hardware has been subpar. My phone was only officially supported for 3 years.

They will increase support for new phones, probably because Apple does the same. It is too little, too late for me.

I've had every htc g1/nexus/pixel. 3 years hasn't been too big a deal, we have 3 phones in the household and the phones trickle down based on preferences for camera, phone size, and us. Did run up against the 3 year limit a few times. Fortunately the pixel 6 and 7 switched to 5 years of support.

I was considering switching to iPhone, but then I tried GrapheneOS. It's only for pixels, is easy to install, and focuses on privacy and security. Suddenly it feels like it's my phone. Zero crapware, something pixels have been pretty good at. I can remove any app I want, even the play store. It ships with a de-googled chrome. I'm impressed.

Is there any hope of getting these operating systems (grapheneos/leaniageos) to run on anything other than the pixel phone?

I've been using Samsung all my life (tablets, phones, watches, TVs) since they've been providing consistent quality, but after samsungs silently leaking my keyboard input to grammarly and not providing me the features I paid for on their galexy watch, I decided to move out of the samsung echosystem for good.

The thing is that I still really like their hardware. I just want to change the software running on it to something more sane and less shady.

Long time Android user here (since 1.5 on G1), had all the Nexuses and Pixels as well. Give the OnePlus phones a try. My family's switched to using them and I've been impressed with the battery life and hardware. The software is closer in spirit to the Nexus line.

>Give the OnePlus phones a try.

Don't. Older OnePlus devices (1-3) were great, but the newer ones are pure trash, basically e-waste phones due to how poor the SW support is: good up to date HW, but buggy SW and poor SW update cycles with late updates which often add more bugs and remove features and don't address older bugs leading to never ending frustrations (just read their forums).

They even did bait-and-switch where they promised X update was coming in the future for your phone, and later axing that update completely while quietly removing all mentions of their promile from their webpage and forums. Stay away from them, there are more pleasurable ways to burn your money away.

My mother asked me for a phone recommendation and I told her to try OnePlus. It is a beautiful phone (for an Android) but very buggy. It often fails, at random, at it most basic job of making phone calls without needing a restart. I regret making that recommendation.

I had an early pixel and the Pixel 4 coming out and being ass was what drove me to iPhone. I wanted a phone with clean software, instant updates, and face unlock. The Pixel 4 being bad made me realize that the iPhone had all of those things for a long time.

Was just on to apple support for an issue with my daughters phone, and I have to say it was a really nice experience. Good online chat first (may be a bot, but if so was a good one), and immediate call from a senior advisor when it needs to be escalated. Issue solved in 10 mins flat. Not sure how well it goes with others, but customer service counts for a lot and glad apple appreciate that.

Support is also great at an Apple Store. I walked in with a broken Apple Watch. A couple minutes later my Apple Care claim was taken care of, and 2 days later I had a replacement arrive on my doorstep.

I was due for an upgrade and switched to Android this cycle. Acquired a unlocked Pixel 7 that was on sale in June and immediately reflashed it with GrapheneOS.

Ultimately a very smooth experience. The difference in tracking is very evident as is the amount of data streaming out of the phone.

I have an unlocked 6, wife got the upgrade this cycle. Nice phone, but much nicer with GrapheneOS. Definitely feels like my phone, instead of the default Pixel which is more of a Google owned phone that they let you use.

But Google is again deliberately stupid with them, like, just goddamn.. sell it.. in Europe. I honestly can’t even understand that there are like 3 Eu countries I could buy it, if I wanted to..

The majority of the EU population can buy it directly... https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-7-availability... says:

> The full list of countries includes the US, UK, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Japan, Australia, Singapore, Taiwan, and India.

I get that plenty of countries don't have official Google Store support, but it's a bit like saying there isn't a Samsung store? I assume you're free to buy the phone elsewhere in the EU, or even in countries that aren't directly supported by Google, and activate with your own carrier.

This is the exception, rather than the norm. Most users outside hacker news just want a phone that works.

So the real take away is Google is up 48% and everyone else is down with Apple down 5%.

Sales have been flat in the USA since 2018 https://www.statista.com/statistics/191985/sales-of-smartpho...

It doesn't exactly seem fair to say Google is up 48% when they went from 2% to 3% of the market. It seems to me that their growth is almost entirely coming from Samsung. The numbers are jumpy enough that I also wonder how much when different phone makers announce their new wares affects the numbers.

I think he means Google phones, ie Pixel.

I am not surprised because they've been advertising pixel really hard, and they are good phones. Still, it seems a lot more likely to eat into Samsung than Apple market share.

I finally convinced some in-laws to get an se2 after telling them it wasn’t really cheaper to keep buying terrible no name Samsung phones every other year. They have also both become photographers now and can FaceTime easily to see grandkids. So mark me down for contributing 2. Your welcome Apple.

Samsung also makes quite a few phones with decent cameras.

Are you saying the SE2 specifically fills a hole in their line-up?

11s we’re running less than 100$ per phone. By far the best low end phones

FaceTime and iMessage always work very well and out of the box. No installation/configuration required.

This, in my mind, is the biggest selling feature for iPhones to baby boomers. Locks them in forever as well.

The SE 2020 being extra cheap (and even the 2022 model if you look well enough) is only a product of the used market and the fact that that line of iPhones is often overlooked, so people selling them really lowball the price more often than not. Apple doesn't actually have a lot to do with it.

Article says iPhone market share was 57% in Q2 2022, so basically people get excited and spend quality time analyzing noise fluctuations

iPhones end up being cheaper in the long run. They get software updates much longer than almost any Android phone, and at least here even small cities have local shops that repair them. It's also just a superior user experience.

I wish they kept on making the mini models though. I'm using a 13 mini, which has been really nice. Most modern smartphones are uncomfortable to carry in the front pocket of slim pants.

Yup, you just can't beat standardization

The support is way better because there isn't a million different models

I think it has more to do with vertical integration of the hardware and software than the number of models.

Supporting Android phones requires collaboration between the chip vendors, hardware manufacturers, and Google, which is difficult.

A lot of mobile sites break on the mini phones it’s a huge hassle. Would not recommend. I have one and that’s my biggest gripe with it. There are restaurants I can’t checkout at for example because the button is stuck just below the fold and I can’t scroll to click it due to shitty ui

I've found just setting the browser to always load sites at 75% zoom solves a lot of these issues. There is also the option 'Hide Toolbar' behind the 'aA' button on Safari which also helps as well

I'm still using an iPhone XS (2018) and have zero complaints aside from a lack of RAM. I plan to upgrade this year, so it will come out to $200/year. Seems like a good deal.

Took me a long time to figure this out. My SE is still pretty great, if a little slow. My Pixel would have been decapitated by this time.

I'm a long time Android user but boy, Google is trying hard to make me switch. Android Auto is a mess, not a lot of good phone options with compact footprint, poor update policies and basically the feeling of always being 2-3 years behind Apple.

I don't get "Android Auto" and "Android Automotive" They aren't open source, and when they don't work, your car is left with a weird system that can't be substituted. They make it less likely that I'll want to buy a car with them. What's so good about it versus just using bluetooth and a phone mount? Could be crazy, but figure buggy software should be something I can swap out, not integrated into a car many times more expensive than it.

The difference is that the iPhone is the bread and butter to Apple, where as Google's Android is treated as secondary.

Which seems like a massive liability for the company. Search engines seem like a much lower moat than mobile platforms these days.

Manufacturers deserve this because they became greedy bastards.

My anecdote, i loved my samsung S10 which i had to replace. Their new flagship is heavier, has no headphone jack, no FM radio, no SpO2 meter, and doesnt feel considerably faster. It also seems to heat up a bit more. What the hell is going on. I feel cheated

Apple's phone seem to make slight improvements, but really it's hard to tell anymore.

I think the sector is beyond its peak and about to see a huge slump

iPhone has always been a superior experience to me. While it may not have that tinkering ability like an Android, on the whole Apps are much higher quality, more paying customers as a dev, lots of things that just work between devices.

I think it’s deserved in that sense.

I have both types of phones, an Android one privately and an iPhone for work, and in direct comparison I honestly prefer the Android user experience. It's not that I love Android, but the iPhone feels so often clunky to me.

- There's a greater reliance on gesture-based tricks, which I find unintuitive and undiscoverable

- I often feel stressed when using the iPhone because I can't figure out how to do basic things while under time duress. This is as simple as hanging up on a call I had on speaker and left to navigate to other apps: There's the green bar at the top indicating I'm still in the call, but I cannot figure out how to get back to it. If I swiped it out it's gone from the multi-tasking overview (without ending it), and unlike in Android you can't drag down the notification tray and access the call via a notification bubble

- There's reproducable little bugs that annoy me. For example when I initially boot up the phone, I can't tap the password field to open the on-screen keyboard. It doesn't work. I have to turn the screen off and turn it back on, and then I can open the keyboard

- There's flows that admittedly are used rarely but that are enormously clunky. If you open a certificate file to import, you get a frigging dialog box telling you to manually go to the Settings app and approve it in some well hidden sub-section. Why doesn't the dialog offer you a jump straight into there? These kinds of flows of composing screen pages from different apps into sequences is something Android does extremely well with the Activities concept

- The Share flows feel underdeveloped vs. Android

etc.

> lots of things that just work between devices

Only if those are apple devices. Between an idevice and a windows or linux laptop the "just works" factor has been quite unimpressive.

The quality of indie apps on iOS has always been a huge draw for me.

Unfortunately that’s mostly been replaced by the swamp of garbage from IAP and ad driven filth that only cares about money.

But the gems are still there.

Remember back in the old days when people got their phones and phone plans together as part of a 2 or 3 year contract? Back then, people lived with cracked screens and other damage as much as possible because of being locked into those contracts. And then that sort of went away when the market decoupled and you got your phone and service separately.

Well, lately I've been noticing more and more people carrying around phones with cracked screens, and apparently just dealing with it. This is totally anecdotal and unscientific, but it feels like there is a shift in mindset going on. For one reason or another, people are keeping those "broken" phones in service rather than replacing them.

In Canada perhaps It's due to zero choices from service providers? Samsung and Google Pixel are the only Android options in the high-end (TCL/Motorola/ZTE low end). I would consider a Asus Zenfone or Sony Xperia if they were widely available here.

Does this mean the US government can finally start treating Apple the way it treats Microsoft, etc when it does clearly anti-competitive things? They get away with murder sometimes and no one bats an eye. Even here on HN, it's full of people that turn a blind eye because they have a love for Apple. Everything as spun as "looking out for the user" as if not using USB-C, locking out RCS, the "Apple Tax" etc are anything but anti-competitive behavior or straight gouging. Apple to this day is treated like it's late 90s 5% market share self. This isn't the 90s anymore.

Edit: Instantly being downvoted is ironic.

People forget, but Apple faced a massive backlash in 2012 when it replaced the 30 pin connector with Lightning. People called it a ploy to make money on cables. Tons of e-waste.

USB C devices started shipping in 2015, so one can see why they didn't want to put themselves through that again.

Adopting USB C in fall 2023 iPhones is smart, because by now everyone has USB C cables already to charge their iPads, Macs, and Apple TV remotes (yes, even that recently switched from Lightning to USB C).

I don't think not using USB-C qualifies as an antitrust issue.

It is appropriate to focus on the App Store commission, absolutely.

None of your examples are “murders”. They have been using USB-C in pretty much every non-iphone device for years, switching on a whim to USB-C would have just left a bad taste in the users’ mouthes (and millions of unused cables). RCS is just google’s fake open-source proprietary protocol with terrible security, I really don’t want any of that thank you very much.

Apple Tax is as bad as any other similar app store — they would be stupid to bust it deliberately, thankfully we have governments that will do their job here. With the EU rules it will become great.

Market share alone is not why MS was sued for anti-trust violations. It was how they got into that position, what they did to maintain that position, and what they did with that position.

Apple uses mobbing strategy to force teenagers to use iPhones:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-...

Anyone who don't use iPhone will be bullied (in USA). But yeah, let's pretend that Apple have some moral values when exactly the opposite is true.

>foldable shipments could reach their highest level ever in the US in Q3 2023.

Yes, people with a bit more disposable income &/or early adopters (there's some overlap there) are going to be less price sensitive and therefore less put off by rising costs elsewhere in their lives. Of course it helps that there are increasingly more foldable options, and more mature designs in them, as time goes by.

In the US, having an Android is one of the biggest social status negative signals I can think of.

I used to have an android and when I'd meet people the primary thing they'd remember about me was that I had an android. Their blinders were up after they had that information.

I think phones like the Galaxy line might be better than iPhones, but the experience of owning an iPhone far exceeds owning a Galaxy.

My own extended family is literally a cult about this.

But, I’m back to iPhone because I actually need my phone portion to work. Went through 3 androids with constant call issues.

Who cares if there’s a cult. The products are objectively worse if you need to make important phone calls. Couldn’t care about anything else even a tenth as much.

From experience, the type of people who judge you on that aren't the ones worth dealing with.

A +1 to Android for helping us filter out all the wankers we don't want to hang out with.

So wait, we're basing purchases now on what others think of them and not our own metrics?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this is absolutely wild to me. We must live in very different places with a very different group of cohorts.

I think this varies by groups of people and is very similar to everyone in the group having Nike shoes. It's a marketing ploy from Apple.

Apple really contributed to this with the non-iMessage "green bubble."

In other words, Android devices last longer than iDevices which causes the latter to be replaced more often. As to why Android devices last longer can be disputed, this can range anywhere from they are used for a longer period of time because the user does not want to spend more money on mobile gadgets to they last longer because they can be kept up to date using AOSP-derived distributions which enables 10+ year old devices to run current Android and anything in between.

Add to that the fact that iDevices are much more recognisable due to there being only a handful of current versions compared to the thousands of current Android devices and as such more easily recognised as 'out of date' or 'old' and their - often brand- and status-conscious - users have an extra incentive to buy a new device even though the old one still worked fine just so they are not perceived to be 'poor'.

Years and years of terrible decisions from Google (15 messaging apps, Android SDK glitches that still exist from 2010, copying Apple's features instead of leading) will only continue to let Apple dominate. There's simply no reason to choose Android - iPhone does everything better, for the same price.

My wife is totally in the iOS ecosystem and I'm fully in the Samsung ecosystem and they both have their pros and cons. Pros on Android: My work profile is isolated from my personal profile, I can just copy movies onto the device and play them with VLC, automatic routines are better, audio controls are much better, the back button, ad blockers, real alternative browsers, etc.

The problem with long term iPhone users is that they don't know what they don't know. Superficially, it's very easy to see an Android phone and an inferior iPhone if you only look at what iPhones can do.

That being said, I always recommend iPhones over Android for family/friends/etc. For someone like myself, who is a little bit technical I actually prefer the control, customization, and advanced features of Android. I actually find iPhones to be frustratingly simplistic.

I'm sorry, but - "for the same price"? You must live in a very different place than I do.

Yeah pixel line phones are the only decent android devices but they aren’t as good as iPhones and they cost the same. 6 or so years ago they were competing at the 400-500$ range and were actually a good trade off

Android phones stopped being attractive to me a few years back. They've become overpriced and it's much harder to make them work acceptably well.

iPhones don't appeal to me at all, though.

The decline of Android phones is one of the reasons that I've decided go without a smartphone entirely when my current one dies.

yeah... IMO Android 5 I think was more or less the optimum (Nexus 5)

I wonder if Apple will use their increasing profit in subscriptions to keep dropping the price of the iPhone

The prices of the phone keep going up as they lock in more users

My Pixel is rapidly coming out on it's drop dead date for security updates and I'm considering just switching to an iPhone SE. I want a small phone that will be supported for a long enough time that I don't have to constantly remind myself when the EOL date is.

I think LineageOS should be well supported on Pixels, if this suits you.

Now that the 2G network shutdowns are done, there's no driving force to get a new phone, especially in this economy. The phones have gotten far more durable in the last decade as well, so breakage isn't as big of a driving factor either.

To be fair, iPhones almost have caught up with Android features.

Still the lack of control is poor. Maybe in 10 years they will give users control.

However, the security is a dealbreaker. I have something quite important on my phone, I can't trust Apple's lack of security.

Apple is the only manufacturer that still sells a phone today with an actual physical button. It is hard for me to give that up. Also it is very small and slim. Barely feel it in my pocket, not to mention the nice feeling aluminium on the back.

Apple is going to have so much power to push whatever agenda they desire.

Yep. We really need to get the antitrust talk going inevitably. They're going to reach at least 65-70% in the US very soon.

Phones are so good now that even a 2-3 year old iPhone can do pretty much anything you want.

Battery life degrades and it slows down a tad, but there isn't the same pressing need to upgrade of yore.

I want my phone to stay small and simple with clickable tactile keyboard.

Why have phone manufacturers forsaken the likes of us?

Mature market (phones have been "kgood enough" for a while) plus down economy.

38% vs 6% Android/Apple is a big difference.

I always found it interesting how the dynamic for 'nerds' shifted from Android to iOS because of data security reasons. I was one of those who originally got an Android because of "tinkering" (and honestly still miss that), but with the data privacy realization of iOS vs Android, I could NEVER go back.

The turning point for was when Apple allowed users to set app permissions and Google didn’t

Android phones have become good enough to keep. - Written on a 4 year old phone.

I wonder if the 15 and USB-C might be a surprisingly big upgrade driver?

IMO, outside of the tech world, nobody really cares about USB-C - or at least - not enough to drive upgrades. It's just what one end of the power cord looks like.

And still no mini Android phone from the one of big manufacturers.

I swapped from Android after a decade to iOS at the end of last year, and don't regret it one single bit.

Android you just get plagued with software bugs (random battery drain, UI freezes, weird crashes etc) constantly, additionally I wasn't a fan of how system apps because they come from Google auto-update, going in and having an app completely change at random when I'm not expecting it, is not a nice experience when you need the app in a hurry (looking at you Google Maps).

Ironically for a phone, phone calls were the buggiest thing on nearly all Android phones I had over a decade (OnePlus, Samsung, Pixel etc).

iOS, as much as I disagree with Apple's closed ecosystem and propriety behaviour, is just a far better software quality than Android. Google is obviously not a software company.

Well it's far easier to have better overall software quality when you have a closed ecosystem with even the hardware and drivers designed by yourself. You need to implement and support only your own use cases with all loose ends cut.

For me the choice is simple. Android allows piracy out of the box and lets you do some pretty advanced power user stuff (e.g. system-wide VPN ad blocking) without rooting, iOS requires a jailbreak to do literally anything. Android will run any browser, iOS is Safari only. Android is open source, iOS is a closed proprietary black box. iOS also does other absolutely ludicrous things, like ATS blocking fetch and xhr requests over HTTP with no way to disable it. It's like it comes with always-on parental controls out of the factory. I'm the admin of my device, not fucking Tim Apple.

Android may be a buggy duct taped amalgamation of random hardware and software, but that's a direct result of it being open and no worse than the average linux machine.

Getting Slack messages on my Apple Watch is nice when I am away from my phone but still in BT (wifi?) range. I know this not specific to iPhone, but the integration is nice.

BT if in range, WiFi if not but on a known network. Done that way for power savings.

I love my iPhone, but the ecosystem integration is also a huge point for me. The little ways different Apple products work together adds so much niceness and extra value above the utility of the individual products.

Getting Duo pushes to my watch makes the whole MFA experience at work much less of a hassle.

So iPhone users typically have more money?

I’m locked into the blue bubble… also hate Google with a passion for being so damn evil

Even the cheap folks in my extended family are starting to switch to iPhones. The TCO is better, as is longevity and use experience. The only way to be cheaper is to stick with awful budget android phones and then you give up on the experience and extended software support. Get burned a couple times by that, and pretty soon a basic iPhone SE starts to look really appealing. Especially for people who don't want to upgrade every couple years.

Personally I don't understand the friends I have that use Android. They wear it as a badge of pride that they didn't give Apple money [0], ok... cool? None of them use a third-party app store, none of them use a custom rom, none of them really customize the phone at all past stock. I understand if you want to go the Android route to root/customise it but if you aren't going to do that then I really don't get the point. Google and Apple are, at worst, equal in how "evil" they are and in my opinion Apple comes out on top for more things that I care about.

I also never say shit about their phone/computer choices but for some reason some of them find reasons to bring up my use of Apple products regularly. Makes me think of the scene in Mad Men "I don't think about you at all" [1].

[0] https://youtu.be/z6fX6-aCZ9Y?t=52

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlOSdRMSG_k

What if we just want to customize our home screen? I use a custom launcher which doesn't require root or a custom rom.

Maybe they just want a descent browser on their phone. Another reason could be theat they don't have an abundance of financial resources and are fine with a $200 phone.

My screen folds.

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