kaisdavis

> The fact that they went higher than I offered really just proves that I am low balling myself?

Yes.

Your boss knew how much it would cost them to find a replacement - short or long term - and your $65/hr came in below that. I am ecstatic that you are happy with that rate, but you probably could have earned more. Does it matter? Probably. But you're happy, they're happy, and I'm happy.

Next step? Get it all in writing. Sign a contract with them. If you haven't watched Mike Monteiro's excellent video on getting paid, take 40 minutes and watch it: http://vimeo.com/22053820

Enjoy your freedom, EOF!

> They are a medium level of SOL if I just walk and don't give them work/help

The business is not your friend. The business is not your lover. The business does not love you, the business is a business.

Yeah, they're SOL if you just walk. But they'd be just as SOL if you died / were fired. Don't 'do them a favor' if they wouldn't do the same favor for you.

> I don't want to leverage that at all, or at least minimize them feeling like I am squeezing them for all they are worth.

The company doesn't love you. It's a business relationship, not making a website for your dad's war buddy. This is a job to put food on your table, not a quick project for a buddy.

They don't love you. You are doing them no ill by 'squeezing' them for all you're worth.

>Does anyone have some pointers here on how to go about this? Both keeping things as amiable as possible and maximizing my rate.

Let's break this down. You want to keep things amiable as possible, but remember that this is business, not a relationship. This isn't negotiating who gets the kitten with your ex, this is negotiating how much food you get to put on your table with a company. Again, they don't love you.

> Maximizing my rate

Well, how much do you need to earn, eof? That figure sets the baseline for whatever you ask for, so figure out that baseline.

How much would you need to take in each month to cover all of your expenses (food, rent, insurance, development, savings, taxes)? That's the minimum you need to ask for.

How much do they pay employees in the industry? You were earning $70k after 6-moths, so we're looking at a per-hour / per-project equivalent to that.

How much would they pay the freelancer that will fill your shoes if you just walked?

That's a lot of questions from me to you - sorry! - but it's questions that need to be answered for you to figure this thing out.

You're quitting so you have free time and have a lot of work on the side. If one of your other clients came to you with this exact same project, how much would you charge them?

Charge your current employer no less than that. You're quitting so you have the time and mental space to focus on what you want to do. Don't put yourself at a lower rate because you 'owe' the company something. You owe them nothing. The company doesn't love you. If it ever was more cost effective for them to replace you with a bobble head, they would do it in an instant.

tl;dr:

• Figure out how much you need to live the life you want to live

• How much would you charge Joe X for this same work?

• Don't settle for less than that and don't be afraid to walk away if they won't pay what you'd earn elsewhere. The company doesn't love you.

It shows determination in the same way that showing up on a date and telling him / her that 'I'm having a lot of success in the dating world, I just got turned down for 3 dates' projects confidence. Sure, you're out there getting names and numbers and seeing what happens, and that's great! But what's the story you're telling to potential investors / spouses?

The name YCRejects can tell a lot of stories. "We had an interview, but we weren't the right fit for the program, so we're building the product / finding the market ourselves" is one story. But the name YCRejects says "We didn't get an interview, but..." and puts you [in my mind] in an awkward position where you're apologizing and making excuses for applying to something. That's not right.

If YCombinator brought this idea together [as it obviously has], why not build on that? YCombinator — Summer Batch 2.

You're a group of founders, brought together by YCombinator, working together to build awesome things. You're a skunkworks incubator. You [probably] have no funding, but you have passion for your ideas and a burning desire and determination to get this show started.

You aren't rejects. You're founders.

If I was in college and in that area, I'd take that job in a second, especially if I was a non-technical guy with technical knowledge.

Yes, the position recommends a CS degree, but if you're a HN browser non-technical person, I think you'd be safe.

Awesome.

> Will filling this out impact the negotiations at all?

Highly. Filling out that form eliminates negotiation completely. You're giving up your informational advantage and letting them set your salary.

> I didn't really have a plan other than asking for my current salary + 20%

Quite frankly, you're worth more than that.

Here's a few questions that I advocate my friends ask themselves during their job searches.

1. How much do I need to make?

What's your budget? How much do you need to make month to month to survive? Okay, that's the base line. You can't earn less than that or else, by definition, you aren't earning enough to get by.

What are your savings goals? How much do you want to save month to month? Add that to the baseline.

How much more do you want to make? How much mad money do you want each month that you can consciously spend on whatever you want?

Add those together. That's a pretty good indicator of how much you want to make to be happy. Now, it may be that this number (x) is less than what you're already making (y). If so, congratulations, you're in a great position, but that doesn't mean you don't deserve more money.

2. What's industry compensation?

For the job title you're interviewing for, what's industry compensation like nationwide? How about locally?

Use salary search sites, informational interviews, and beers with people working in your industry to figure out about how much these types of positions pay. It may end up being more than your x + 20% estimate.

3. What's company compensation like?

Do you know anyone who works at the company? It's google, so you probably do. Can you find out what someone starting at this title makes to start? What's the work load like? What are the other perks?

4. Aside from cash, what do you want?

Google has nice swag, but is there anything you need that you can ask for outside of cash?

Maybe you want more vacation time. Maybe you want to work from home 1 week each month. Ask yourself 'What would make this job awesome to me.' Then ask for that.

5. Additional Resources

Here's two articles that can help with this decision.

The first is 'The Business' by rands: http://ka1.us/dgX6

It's a great overview of figuring out how much you're worth and getting them to agree.

The second is an article I wrote at the start of March about negotiation: http://ka1.us/fxki

My article goes into a bit more depth on identifying how much you're worth and asking for it.

I hope these help! Congratulations on the job offer!

1. I use a hosts file to block sites like hackernews, tech crunch

2. I set objectives the night before for the following day. I identify 3-5 things that I'll accomplish the following day and then I focus on doing those things.

3. I work in pomodoro sprints - 25 minute bursts of focus.

4. I keep a notepad next to my computer so when I'm working in a sprint and I have one of those "oooh, I should check that out!" thoughts, I can write it down, close the loop, and get back to what I'm working on.

5. I take breaks. When I find myself getting distracted, I take a walk around the office / outside.

Single serving site that takes the visitor's location (via skyhook, IP Address, or whatever technology) and returns a google map with bars and Universities highlighted.

Heck, add Yelp integration and use whatever method you can think of to select the seedy local bars and highlight them.

This is the advice I offer to all of my freelancing friends and repeat to myself every morning: "Whatever I'm charging, I should double it."

There's a limit on that school of thought, but if have the option of 2 freelancing contacts at X, or 1 at 2x, I prefer to focus on one client at a higher price point.

I figured out my starting freelance rate by taking my per-hour salary from my day job and doubling it. Then, whenever I had too many clients at that price level (generally 2+ back-to-back) I increased my rate by 50% to 100%.

This has worked great for me through multiple iterations. As my portfolio, contacts, and experience grows, so does my rate. I'm left earning a good amount for my freelance work, and have the luxury of turning down work that isn't paying enough or is too much of a hassle to coordinate.

This is a really cool concept! Awesome job.

I like the feedback someone else gave on showing photos of the people. Since this is more 'socialize here' than 'sleep here,' (unless it pivots into house-based on-availability takeout) I'd prefer to see photos of people + their interests than photos of the food.

It's saturday night, am I looking for someone making turkey sandwiches in Eugene, Oregon, or am I looking for some cool people to meet and have a few hour conversation with? Am I buying a conversation or the food? I think I'd be buying a conversation and an opportunity to meet new people. The meal is secondary.

My ex-girlfriend and I had a recurring conversation about meeting people and making new friends in our mid-20s. It's a good question, one I'd like to see tackled: "What does a non-dating 'dating' site look like?" Howaboutwe.com is sort of what I'd like to see done in this space, but a site like this that arranges social events / group 'friend' dates to meet people in your community based on food / interests / conversation? That's right up my ally.

Great job launching an MVP. I'd love to see what comes next.

This needs to be at the top of Hacker News.

Thank you for providing me with this internet-essential service. You are a true hero, tpope.

* Can you talk to them?

Is the company DNA so focused on 60-70hrs/wk that there is no middle ground?

* Can you negotiate a raise?

You say that you're earning the least per-hour you have for 3 careers. Can you negotiate up? Sure, you hate it now, but if you were earning another 10-20k/year, would you still hate it as much?

* Can you get fired?

If you just work 40hrs/wk, will you get fired? Would you mind that?

* Can you stay on and build a network?

Can you keep drawing a paycheck, working 40-50/wk, and build a network to find another job or entrance to an art program?

If you hate what you're doing and have the financial reserves to survive 4-6 months of unemployment, quit right now.

* You don't owe them anything * They, as a company and individuals, do not love you * This isn't what you're passionate about

If you have the finances to survive for 4-6 months and no (or manageable) debt, I say quit.

My old Angelfire site from 1995!

Zach,

Totally! This is a really cool application and I'm always pumped to offer constructive feedback.

If you ever want to chat, feel free to ping me on skype (kaisdavis) or Google Talk (kai@kaisdavis.com).

Happy building.

I agree that there isn't a need to reinvent the wheel, but using it I find myself wanting some firebug-esq capabilities. I ended up just firing up inspector in Chrome, but there may be an opportunity here.

Or integrating something like that could ruin the simplicity of the app.

Still, I like this a ton.

Yeah, I'd love to be a paying user for this.

For sure! I'll try using it when I have the chance and let you know what I think.

Lightning Edit: and a friend IMs me with questions about CSS. I'm going in.

This is awesome! This will save me a lot of time in communicating small CSS changes across a team. Thanks a ton for building this!

This is a really cool idea, Zach. Props for making + launching it.

I can see it's value - I do consulting work (web design / marketing) with small businesses and I often spend too much time getting Google Maps to embed just right into the site. I'll try this out on my next project.

It seems to fit perfectly for Craiglist ads. For anyone wondering, here's what the output on Craigslist looks like: http://ka1.us/ZlzK

# Comments / Suggestions / Thoughts

First off, serious props for launching this. It's a wonderful application and I can't wait to see where it grows to. As far as this feedback goes, I'm not you, so take these ideas with a grain of salt.

Custom URL

It would be neat if I could set a custom URL for a location. Linking to http://lg.cx/YRDYhVuq is fine, but it'd be a lot more user friendly for me in my use case (including a link to my house in a party-invite email) if I could set that as http://lg.cx/kaishouse

Registering / Owning / Locking Locations

Can I lock a location or are they always open to editing by anyone? I'd hesitate to use this for a client's website if someone can go in and change the listing description and name. Not a biggie, but something that might come up for business customers.

Copy to Clipboard

Including a copy to clipboard for the embed codes (pic: http://ka1.us/Lfo5) would be great. I'm not sure if it's a bug on my end, but when I clicked into the embed code boxes, they'd flash for a second like they were being highlighted to copy, but would immediately reset to normal. Nothing was copied to my clipboard.

Copying the Craigslist ad was a bit awkward. Half the time my mouse cursor would end up outside of the box and cmd+a would select the entire page. Adding a 'copy this embed code' button for both boxes would be nifty keen.

Sharing

Minor, but an 'email this' button could be nice. Click the button, enter an email address (or multiples) and an email is sent with the table output of the address.

Maybe have the share menu expanded by default? I'm used to 'share' displaying twitter / facebook widgets, so the link code in there came as a bit of a surprise.

Again, congratulations for making + launching this. I think it's really awesome.

This is just what I needed. Thanks, drKarl.

* DropBox

Simple file syncing between my home and office computers? Versioning, when I need it?

Dropbox tops the list.

* SimpleNote / nvALT

The easiest way to take a note and have it available anywhere.

* Instapaper

I do more reading through instapaper than I do through RSS feeds. The new feature that shows you articles liked by your twitter / facebook friends? Amazing.

Hi PonyGumbo

> Contract

I completely agree. DO have a document outlining cost, payment, timeline, and what you charge per-hour for support / over-time work.

Don't overthink it and write out a detailed contract before you even have customer #1.

> Website

I've never put up a website for my work / business, and never had a client ask. What purpose would the site have? I don't think it would be cost/time-effective in terms of lead generation, so it would just be a listing of the skills I have and examples of other work.

I'd rather spend the 1/10/100 hours I'll spend on the site meeting with potential customers and learning about their problems.

Maybe it's the different audiences. I'm working with small business owners on marketing campaigns. You or the submitter my be working with a different audiences who places a lot of value on a website. Me? I think I'd spend 50 hours 'optimizing' it and never get a lead, so I nixed the site and just talked to customers instead.

# Charge Customers Money

Figure how much you need to earn each month to get by. Divide that by the number of hours you want to work each month. That's your minimum hourly rate. Now just figure out how much you want to earn in profit.

Personally, I like to charge 2x what I earn at my day job. If I get more than 2 clients at that rate, I double my rate. I'd rather have one client paying me $100/hr than 4 clients paying me $25/hour.

Hey, Oldmanstan.

I do freelance web development, project management, and (some) design. Here's a few thoughts I have on my process. These are things I'm doing to stay fast and efficient. Best of luck to you in your work.

# Optimize for Efficiency

When you have a chose of a tool (platform, application, business practice), optimize to the tool that takes you less time to use. If you're thinking about how to develop sites and you're debating between using a CMS like Wordpress or maintaining static HTML files, I default to picking the tool that will save me more time in the long run. In my case, I use Wordpress for 99.9% of my projects because I know it saves me time in building, deploying, and maintaining websites for customers. There was invested time up front, but now I don't have to worry about how much time it will take to add 1 link to the navigation on a 30 page site coded in static HTML. (Hint: Too long.)

The same holds for business practices. If you're thinking about how to market yourself, pick something that has the highest return on your time. A few months ago I was debating marketing strategies to find my next paying customer. I narrowed the list down to:

* Launch a website * Email Chamber of Commerce Members * Go to Networking Events * Call up prospects

I then estimated how much time each activity would take and the expected number of customers I could expect to acquire. I chose to focus on the strategy that I felt would have the biggest probability of success: directly calling up prospects.

# Tools

Here's a few tools that I recommend. They help me stay fast and efficient on the projects I do:

* Basecamp

Cloud based project management software. I just started using this a few weeks ago on a new project and I'm immensely happy. It's removed all the friction of multiple emails and forgotten todos on the client's side. Basecamp acts as a one-stop repository on what needs to be done, the project status, and any resources that you need to take note of.

Do yourself the favor of registering for their free plan and playing around with it. By no means do you have to use this, but keep it in mind if you ever end up with a 57 email chain in Gmail with a client over todos they need to take care of.

* CloudApp

Simple file, image, and link sharing. I use CloudApp to manage sharing screenshots and files with clients. Take a screenshot in OSX, the screenshot is uploaded to cloud's web server and a URL is placed in your clipboard. Simply paste the URL into an email and - boom - your client doesn't have to worry about downloading an attachment. Better yet? Analytics show you when the URL was clicked. Best yet? Just drag files or links to the CloudApp menubar icon and it gives you a short url to send to a client for the client to access the files.

* SimpleNote

Super-awesome cloud based notepad. Syncs to iPhone / iPad devices. Great for jotting down notes or reminders and syncing information across multiple computers / devices. This is my preferred digital scratch pad.

* Wordpress and Wordpress Themes

I love Wordpress because it's powerful enough to do what I want and simple enough so clients don't get confused. I have 5 standard Wordpress themes that I use for 99% of my development work - offering clients a choice between 5 different themes makes it easy to have a balanced discussion about what they want and - bonus - is more efficient.

Ask a client what they want and you get a confusing, hand-wavy response. Show a client 5 example themes, ask questions to isolate what they need / want (what their explicit problem is), and build on the existing themes and you'll save yourself a lot of headache.

One of my first projects was an RFP for the University. The spec and design I submitted won the contract, but the time it took to get on the same page with the client killed my per-hour. Now, when working with clients, we can start with a concrete base design and build up.

* DropBox

I always introduce Dropbox to my non-technical friends as a backup / storage mechanism. Simply put, save the files you're working on in Dropbox. They'll automatically be backed up to the cloud. Accidentally delete something? You can restore the file from the Dropbox website. Hard drive crash? Dropbox has backed up everything to the cloud and you can install Dropbox on another computer and have all your files back.

On the road? Access any file in your Dropbox via the dropbox website.

Using Dropbox is a great time saver if you run into a system performance or a missing file. I was talking to a coworker at my day job on Friday and I insisted that I couldn't work without Dropbox - it's such a part of my project management workflow that I'd be lost without it.

* Freshbooks

Freshbooks takes the hassle out of invoicing. There are a ton of different invoicing apps out there, but I like Freshbooks because it is clean and simple to use. They have a free plan that you can use with up to 3 clients, so don't be worried about spending money at the start.

I love Freshbooks because it makes it easy to prepare a professional invoice / bill for clients. Don't waste time mucking around with templates or desktop apps - just use freshbooks and get it done and get paid in a few minutes.

* Mailchimp

I don't know if your clients have need for email marketing solutions, but if they do I highly recommend Mailchimp. There's a bunch of different email marketing platforms out there - so more hip than others - but I find the Dropbox examples and templates top notch, the support staff super helpful, and the learning curve very low. If you're working with larger lists (personally or for clients), it might not be the best solution, but for beginning freelance web dev and design, it should be fine.

# Books You Should Read

* Spin Selling: http://www.amazon.com/SPIN-Selling-Neil-Rackham/dp/007051113...

This is the best book on selling you'll ever read. It's targeted to people working with larger organizations, but the sales strategies it advocates are must-knows. After reading it, I was able to negotiate a $16,000 raise at my day job.

* Influence and the Psychology of Persuasion: http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert...

An amazing book on psychology. It's a great read if you'll be doing marketing and copywriting work and will help you land clients.

# Get Out of the Office

Steve Blank has a wonderful quote (http://ka1.us/eGONiQ) about getting out of the building and meeting customers.

> As I got up to leave the room, the CEO said, “I want you out of the building talking to customers; find out who they are, how they > work, and what we need to do to sell them lots of these new computers.” Motioning to our VP of Sales, he ordered: “Go with him and > get him in front of customers, and both of you don’t come back until you can tell us something we don’t know.”

Take the same approach. You don't know what your customers need - only your customers know what they need. If you want to work with small business owners, drop in on 12 of them and have a short (5-20) minute conversation about their needs.

I landed a customer recently just by walking into her shop, having a conversation with her, learning she wanted to do email marketing, and telling her that I had experience marketing to customers through email. In total, I spent 20 minutes of my time talking to a potential customer, learning about her business, and landing a $1,000 project.

# Outsource Meaningless Tasks

Aggressively use your network or online resources to outsource parts of the project.

Need a logo? Go to 99designs.com Need a voiceover? Check out fiverr.com Need a theme for a site? Check out woothemes.com, themeforest.net, or elegantthemes.com Need a photograph? Search flickr's creative commons

# Ignore Entrepreneurial Porn

You don't need business cards. You don't need a website. You don't need a detailed contract. You don't need a logo. You don't need a brochure.

You need customers. Each of those activities stand between you and a paying customer. Take the time to get out and talk to the people you want to work for. Directly ask them what their problems are. What do they wish they were able to do? Isolate what you can do to make their lives easier and then talk to them about how you can help them.

Get out and talk to customers and you'll find customers fast. There's a place for business cards, websites, and logos down the line, but not now. Be aggressive with the things that directly lead to acquiring new customers.

# Closing Thoughts

I hope these suggestions plant a seed in your mind and help you down the road. If you have any questions at all, feel free to ping me on skype (kaisdavis), twitter (@kaisdavis), or by email (kai@kaisdavis.com).

Best of luck in your freelancing!

First off, what is his dream right now? What projects does he work on in his free time?

It's wonderful that you want to help him, but unless it's something that he's passionate about, will he want to do it?

I immediately thought of this service as soon as I read that they disabled the limit for any facebook / twitter links. Kudos to the person that's building this. I want to buy you a beer.

That's a sweet idea, but there's a tipping point where the value of being the Nth+1 person on the service doesn't increase your chances of being noticed.

Now, make it a consulting service where people pay you $1000 $5,000 for website / online-marketing / PR services to help land a date? Add in scarcity? That's a cool idea.

it's a wix site - simple, online sites using flash. The guy is smart - he's using a simple tool that gets the job done, not spending his time writing a custom CMS.

That's a skill that I need to get better at: pick the tool that gets the job done _and_ takes the least amount of time. Then go do other things.

Great site and I immediately sent it to a bunch of friends. It's be great if the site had some embedded mechanisms to share (Tweet, Email, 'Like') it so, you know, it was easier for more people to see it.

This is brilliant. Good luck, chas.

It's a long shot, but you should apply.

Have you thought about finding a secondary founder?