4,607 karma · joined July 7, 2014
No, it was not. Either you are deeply confused or responding to wrong comment.
> Stop moving goalposts.
This is not moving goal posts. This is precisely the point. Voter ID laws will disenfranchise legal voters. That's it. That's the point.
> No one made the claim the operation is frictionless,
Good. Then you acknowledge that legal voters will be disenfranchised?
We like to think we live in a meritocracy, but the fact so much of success is based on personality, manipulating people, being charming and persuasive, tapping into others' insecurities and ambitions.
Elizabeth Holmes is a symptom of the same basic human dysfunction that brought us Charles Manson and Donald Trump.
Relevant musical interlude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0
By the way, Democrats did not win that election, as Georgia's Republican governor can tell you.
It might be helpful if you understood the definition of "racism" as used in this article before you reject it. Racism is not the same as discrimination. I agree that anyone can judge another person by the color of their skin: that's racial discrimination. Racism (again, as used in this article, not necessarily as used in everybody life) is defined as a particularly hierarchical view of the races based on social order. Thus, by that thinking, black people can't be racist because they aren't in a position to oppress white people.
But all of that is a digression from the original point of this conversation, which is implicit bias, according to which everyone is somewhat racist because they judge people at an automatic, unconscious level. You might find this article less challenging: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_stereotype
It's clear that you didn't read past the headline of the article that I linked, since the article makes it clear that structural racism is not the same as implicit bias.
You are welcome to disagree with the extent that structural racism is present in American society today, but it makes no sense to dismiss the idea of structural racism. Slavery, as practiced in the US before the civil war, is a clear example of structural racism. Or do you think that race did not play a part in slavery?
> It teaches us to suspect everyone around us, which promotes division and hatred, not love and unity.
Perhaps, but that's an argument from outcomes, not from principles. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
<rolls eyes>
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-president-and-c...
Nothing personal. The fact is that a lot of people are racist: that's the basis of "implicit bias" which I gather you did not bother to read about, despite my encouragement. Given that, it's statistically likely that everyone knows a racist. I know plenty of racists, and I wish I didn't. I'm not judging people, I'm just playing the odds.
Before continuing this conversation, please complete the required reading: https://www.nationalequityproject.org/articles/dont-talk-abo...
The president has given up pretending to obey the law. He's torn down the east wing of the White House (which does not belong to him), he's issued Executive Orders that contradict a plain reading of the Constitution (14th amendment, among others), he has gratuitously and repeatedly violated the Emoluments Clause, he has used the DOJ to attack political enemies on the thinnest of pretenses, he is continuing an illegal "armed conflict" in violation of the War Powers Resolution, etc, etc. This has all been documented thoroughly elsewhere: the president acts like a king and demonstrates contempt for his oath of office.
That, in combination with his civil rights abuses, are tantamount to fascism. Under the guise of "immigration enforcement," he's unleashed a horde of undertrained, overpaid henchmen who apparently act above the law, killing people, including US citizens, and denying medical care to detainees, without any fear of accountability. He's also sought to withdraw citizenship from and cancel visas to those people who are legally in the US but, for whatever reason, displease him. This kind of capricious, content-based discrimination, without Congressional oversight, is exactly what the Founding Fathers fought to prevent.
Any other really easy questions?
Please read up on "implicit bias."
The modern right wants to replace democratic rule of law with enlightened despotism focused on eliminating perceived racial, sexual, and ideological impurities.
The modern left wants universal healthcare and high taxes for billionaires, similar to the well-known death cult of Norway. /s
These things are not the same.
To be clear: if you think you haven't met a racist in decades, you're probably wrong. I call into question your ability to accurately diagnose racism.
Are you literally asking for a moral re-evaluaion of fascism?
Fascinating. I've found the perfect example of "white victimhood." Thank you for sharing your truth that "minorities are the real racists."
What utter nonsense.
"Spewing vitriol" is loaded language used to smear people you disagree with.
The fact is that during the Nazi regime, some people did speak out against the atrocities, and some people did fight back. More people should have. Those who did resist would certainly have been described as "spewing vitriol" by those in power. I wish my grandmother was that brave.
> What about the other side of the coin - about all of those people, who survived, because they were nice and friendly?
Some things are more important than surviving.
At the risk of repeating myself, since you missed it the first time: "I simply provided several examples, at different scales and degree, of conservative harming people who don't believe (or look) exactly as they do."
> I mentioned, in _that_ context, that I have not experienced conservatives causing issues.
You're talking about your personal experience with a small number of people who have enough in common to form a friend group. The point I'm trying to make, and which you are consistently not grasping, is that your friend group is not representative and frankly not relevant. You're like that guy who says "I know lots of dogs, and none have ever bitten me." Good for you, but your experience is not universal. We're talking about society and law, not your pals. It is logically invalid to extrapolate from your personal experience that conservatives do not hurt people, or even that they don't typically hurt people.
> Don’t equate people for things they aren’t involved with.
I don't equate people for things they aren't involved in. I judge every person as an individual. But if you vote for a fascist, then you're involved, and you're a fascist, and you need to be held accountable.
How do you know that you haven't talked with a racist? Are you in the habit of asking new acquaintances if they are racist, and then believing their answer? Or do you just assume that all racists wear the same uniform?
I'm sorry you find it annoying, but I don't find the comparison hyperbolic at all, and perhaps if you understand the historical context and the facts on the ground, you wouldn't either. You are letting your feelings (in this case, being annoyed, combined with a cult of personality) get in the way of a sober analysis of the situation, which is unambiguously the decay of the rule of the law and the persecution of morally innocent people.
> It seems like you don’t know any conservatives very well, the ones you do know are the scum of the earth.
I agree with the second part. I live in a red state. I see these people every day. People just as bigoted and short-sighted as you. People who are utterly convinced of their correctness, even as they reveal their complete ignorance of and indifference to what is actually happening. Instead, what I hear again and again is blind trust for the billionaire in power based solely on his rhetorical style.
> Either way, way, I find your Grandmother’s story noble, inspiring.
It's not noble to be a victim. I hope that those persecuted in today's America won't be as naive as my grandmother.
> being the angry neighbor that knew he was more virtuous than everyone else.
This perfectly describes my actual neighbor, who regularly blames poor immigrants for all his self-inflicted ills and demands violent retribution against the gays, the liberals, the trans, the foreigners, and brown people, all while claiming to speak in the virtuous name of Jesus Christ.
I welcome all reasonable opinions. But not all opinions are reasonable.
In particular, the Maga crowd favors opinions based on hero-worship credulity and irrational vibes, completely divorced from factual reality. Very often, this leads to a place of xenophibia and bigotry, which no one is obligated to tolerate.
Just look at the "conservative" "arguments" in this thread. Just a chain of non-sequiturs and preconceived biases.
> In fact, I’ve never heard of a conservative kid disowning their parents, family, or friends because of their liberal views.
Then when I confronted you with historical examples of conservatives behaving abominably (which you certainly had heard of) you pivoted to your own irrelevant personal experience, and you've been dwelling there since.
I never equated slurs to Jim Crow. I simply provided several examples, at different scales and degree, of conservative harming people who don't believe (or look) exactly as they do.
I'm still waiting
> Your conservative neighbor is no more evil than someone who thinks their conservative neighbor is evil because they are conservative.
In response this:
> This is just sentimental nonsense. You are not obligated to patronize or be friendly to evil people.
Why do you assume that "evil" == "conservative" here?
Would you prefer a Communist rather than Nazi parable? Either way works.
Xenophobia and racial (or religious ) animus are hardly edge cases. On the contrary, they are the default setting for our species, as evidenced by (flips through history book) the last few millennia.
I didn't ask if you saw those things personally.
> And likewise, maybe you should experience the real world instead of believing sensationalized things you read.
Do you think the Jim Crow era was "sensationalized"?
Do you think that your own personal experience is more representative than documented historical fact?
You would have liked my grandmother, who shared your opinion that kindness between neighbors can heal political rifts.
Unfortunately it didn't work out so well for her, as despite her kindness, the neighbors sent her to Dachau anyway.
Great idea! If only we had thought of this sooner. We could have avoided Jim Crow and segregation if only black people had thought to be friendly to racist whites!
/s