311 karma · joined November 19, 2012
And if you copy-paste the answers from LLM, I think it's only fair the end result gets flagged. You're not writing it yourself.
So much for proper typography...
I guess it's still useful for an ocasional Cyrillic word inside an English text, but reading a book set in GNU Unifont is not going to be a pleasurable experience.
You're confusing a language (the way people speak) and a literary tradition (the way people write).
When ancestors of Russians borrowed Church Slavonic writing, they were already speaking another Slavic language, Old East Slavic. For the time being, they were writing in one language (Church Slavonic) and speaking another language (Old East Slavic). Later, they dropped Church Slavonic and started writing what they spoke.
Modern Russian language is a continuation of Old East Slavic, not of Old Church Slavonic.
This is the scholarly consensus.
I think the real strongholds of this style are Serbia and [North] Macedonia. They even underline и and write a line over п (they can do this since they use ј instead of й).
Belarusian Cyrillic requires more backtracking: we have і, ў, obligatory ё, apostrophes. Never saw it as a problem.
But we're not speaking Old French, we're speaking 21-century English. In 21-century English, Russia ≠ Ruthenia, Brittany ≠ Britain.
The quote you've provided is irrelevant.
That might be true, but Latin script is not a neutral option. It has its own problematic history in Ukraine.
Historically, Latin script for Ukrainian (abecadło) was associated with polonisation. While Ukrainian-Polish relationships are quite good now, this history is not easy to discard. This history still affects politics (the recent debacle with the Order of the White Eagle is a good example).
So, I don’t see Ukrainian ditching Cyrillic anytime soon.
I do, however, expect Ukrainians to eventually develop their own style of Cyrillic. I totally expect Ukrainian fonts to drift away from Russian ones. There are already steps in that direction. E.g. the font e-Ukraine Head seen on many official websites introduces Latin-like к (curiously, that’s how my great grandmother used to write к — she went to a Polish school in Western Ukraine) and ȣ-like у. I expect to see more of that. There’s a enough of interest in a distinct visual identity for Ukrainian, and there are talented designers working on it.
Only in the world where Britain is in France.
Ukraine traces its lineage to Ruthenia (Русь), not to Russia (Росія). These words are related etymologically, but so are Brittany and Britain, or Cornouaille and Cornwall. You can’t just treat Ruthenia and Russia as the same thing — just like you can’t treat Brittany and Britain as the same thing.
You can't "politically charge" a term that has always been political. The concept of "native language" is 100% political, always.
As for "mother tongue", it has the same problems and more. "Mother tongue" brings in an implicit idea of 'less prestigious ethnic language', "mother tongue" as opposed to "father tongue" (even in ex-USSR: e.g. you would say that Belarusian is "матчына мова", but you'd never say that Russian is someone's "матчына мова" even when speaking about ethnic Russians — because Russian carries higher prestige, so can't be "mother's" language)
We should not try to replace "native language" with a different term, we should avoid it in serious discussions. Instead, we can speak of proficiency, parents passing language to children, the role of education, the ethnic language, the national language, etc.
And if we do so, we see that there's nothing wrong or unusual about Ukrainian.
If anything, it's huge languages like Russian or English that are unusual. They're different from 99% languages of the world. After all, bilinguals are more common than monolinguals. It's Russian that is a weird outlier, not Ukrainian.
These criteria usually coincide in speakers of big languages (usually languages of [former] empires), so it's relatively easy to say who is a native speaker of Russian or English. There are a lot of people who fulfill all the criteria at once.
But they rarely coincide for speakers of smaller languages (usually colonised people). When most people are bilingual, it's often harder to say who is a native speaker of Ukrainian or Belarusian. Most people fulfill some criteria but not all of them.
So, the term "native speaker" is not neutral and not very useful.
So, if you use wxWidgets, you probably have to use either C++ or Python version, others are unlikely to be supported.
Fun fact: in European and Brazilian Portuguese, the same function names can refer to different things. European SUBSTITUIR² is REPLACE (Brazilian MUDAR), Brazilian SUBSTITUIR³ is SUBSTITUTE (European SUBST).
¹ I've found this solution https://superuser.com/questions/1908516/how-to-change-the-la... but I haven't tested it since I don't have MS Excel at hand to check
² https://support.microsoft.com/pt-pt/office/fun%C3%A7%C3%A3o-...
³ https://support.microsoft.com/pt-br/office/substituir-fun%C3...
Hepburn didn’t write “sensē” himself because it 1880s it was still pronounced “ei”, not “ē”. If it were pronounced like it’s pronounced nowadays, you can bet he’d spell it with ē.
It depends on the learner’s (and textbook author’s) goals. Sometimes, having a phonetic transcription of the more common pronunciation is a more important consideration.
Historically, Hepburn’s transcription pre-dates Japanese orthographic reform. He was writing “kyō” back when it was spelled けふ. Having one-to-one correspondence to kana was not a goal.
So writing sensē is kinda on-brand (even if Hepburn didn’t write like this, because in his times it still wasn’t pronounced with long e).
While sometimes people use all-caps for family names (I think it’s French tradition?), I think it looks quite out-of-place and confusing in this case.
Otherwise, looks cool!
That's true for any human language. E.g. in Russian, adjectives use the gender, case and plurality of a noun, until they suddenly don't.
> English steals aggressively from other languages, since that's its history.
That's not unique to English. E.g. Japanese has even borrowed numerals, and some of its pronouns are borrowings. Russian has borrowed verb forms.
Having a lot of Latin borrowings is quite common in most European languages. Even in Romance languages, there are a lot of Latin borrowings (e.g. minuto is Latin borrowing, miúdo is a native Portuguese word).
> You can use English with only latin-root words, or English with only Germanic-root words and both are as valid english as each other.
That's similar to how e.g. Romanian has Latin-based and Slavic-based vocabulary. This is not that unique.
> but there are also "Hinglish", patois and the other creole dialects
Many languages have or had patois and creoles based on them.
For another example of classical diacritics, see apices in Latin (á for long a).
I don't think that's how it was developed, though. I really doubt there are real-world cases where cwen was scrubbed and queen written above it (correct me if I'm wrong!).
I think it’s more like “people stopped writing English for time being, only learned to write Norman and Latin, so when they needed to write a word or two, they’s use the spelling they knew. Eventually, this spelling because the way of writing English”.
I don’t think a situation with Godwin is plausible.
> I never realized the irony that English avoids > diacritics because of French influence
I'm not sure that's the best way to put it. Old English also generally didn’t use diacritics (modern texts add them: we’d use cwēn instead of cƿen, but these are modern invention).
So, English didn't use diacritics before Normans, and Normans didn't change this.
(Also, interestingly, there is a version in Chinese characters. Looks like the whole phrase is a borrowing from Classical Chinese? Probably the readers know the phrase as set expression, so it's easier for them.)
As an alternative, you can go to Wikipedia and paste File:Đối - Tết 2009.jpg into the search bar.
I think a better application of "all words have the same size" principle can be seen in Vietnamese calligraphy, which sometimes combines Latin characters with Chinese-adjacent writing style, e.g. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%C4%90%E1%BB%91i_-... (this is written in Latin script split into equal squares)
At least https://rpg.breezewiki.com/ru/wiki/ doesn't work.
It's like Latin in Middle Ages. Everyone speaks differently (in Old English, Old High German, Old French, etc.), but people write things in the same way (in Latin). And often don't even learn to write their native language.
> I'd argue Chinese characters don't actually represent a sound
If this were true, people wouldn't need to switch from Classical Chinese to Written Mandarin.
If Chinese writing didn't represent sound, it wouldn't matter if you wrote 學而時習之，不亦說乎？ or 學習知識以後，常常溫習它，不也很快樂嗎？
But people stopped writing in the first style, and started using the second one, to better represents Mandarin speech.
> if a person reads a "character" completely wrong, he/she may never realize until some awkward moment happens during a speech or a conversation
This happens in most languages, just to a smaller degree. E.g. for a long time I thought Septuagint was Septugiant, because I've only encountered this word in writing and never cared to read it letter-by-letter.