11 karma · joined December 18, 2014
There's a clear distinction. Do you view your engineering hire as a tool for a means to an end, or do you consider a qualitative relationship? It's an interesting (albeit brutal way of looking at it)
I think in general it's best to work off of referrals and look at hiring an agency or freelancer in the same way you would hire any employee - due diligence.
If you're asking someone to sign up for something, the opportunity cost is huge. $60 for a good development team is terrible.
The point I was making is that it's an unscrupulous way to found a company, and it was advice that came from a few very successful entrepreneurs.
If you're a lightly funded startup, $60k is good, but that needs to be matched with a realistic equity offer as well.
I feel like there's a wrongful termination suit right there. I don't know how people could get away with it. It seems they do?
What I was trying to discuss was the fact that this spectrum of advice really makes someone an asshole. But then does it take being an asshole to get to the top?
To your point A, the idea that engineers are just tools is exactly what's wrong with the advice I was given. I found it shocking, but there are levels of big business where the line of humanity and numbers can be blurred. My goal is to develop a relationship with someone, and back that up with honest business.
To your point, B, this was from a very select set of people I got advice from and represents a small fraction of my mentorship spectrum. These people are all very very successful. They've built and sold multi-million dollar companies, which is why it's so interesting to me to consider that people operate this way.
I've amended the article with what I hope is a clearer representation of my opinion. I found it shocking that some founders operated on this level. It never occurred to me that people actively do something like that.
Also, I did attach my personal name to this because I'm looking to talk about controversial subjects and not hide from them. I'm disappointed you felt the need to personally attack me, but that's your prerogative.
The ratio of people offering me this advice was on a 3/10 scale, but it really made me wonder? Do we need to be horrible people to succeed? I don't agree with that.
The first point about asking advice on the matter was meant to be a rhetorical question. I had the same abhorrent reaction you did to the advice of underpaying, hiring with the plan to dismiss someone, devaluing them as a co-founder, etc. I want to make that clear that I would never run a company that way, or work with people who did.
When you look at a play like that on paper, the numbers look good. But what are you forgetting? You're forgetting that you're building a BUSINESS, and businesses are built around people and relationships.
What I was wondering was whether or not founders really did see that sort of unscrupulous play as an option in their business. Do people actively operate that way? When presented with those facts in such an emotionless narrative, would people buy in? Has humanity sunk so far in the desire to achieve wealth, that we're willing to sacrifice the well being of others? To ignore hardworking people who are helping us build our dream?
I've heard so many stories of engineers getting screwed, and I wondered if people truly operate that way?