Comment by karmajunkie | Hacker News Reader

Comment by karmajunkie | Hacker News Reader

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I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the fact that you're asking for advice on the question already makes you an asshole. The real question you should be asking yourself is whether you should continue to have relationships with people who think this is an ok thing to do.

The fact is you can't get it done by yourself, even if you could do the backend work. You think someone coming on at this point "isn't a true cofounder". Well, you're kind of wrong on that one. You don't have a product yet, you don't really have a company, and "two angels talking money" means you also don't have any investors yet. You think the risk is all out of it at this point. Wrong again. You think that $60k is a reasonable salary and you haven't even thought about the opportunity cost for that individual.

Bringing someone on at what is a ridiculously low salary (assuming you could find a sucker to do it) with the intention of firing them before they vest is beyond unconscionable. If I were looking at investing in you and found this article, I'd drop the term sheet in the trash and tell you to lose my contact information in a heartbeat. That kind of ethical tapdancing would disqualify you from running your own company in my mind. When people in this industry talk about "hustling", they're not talking about the kind you find in a seedy pool hall.

I really appreciate everything you've said, and I think you've deconstructed it much better than I did.

The first point about asking advice on the matter was meant to be a rhetorical question. I had the same abhorrent reaction you did to the advice of underpaying, hiring with the plan to dismiss someone, devaluing them as a co-founder, etc. I want to make that clear that I would never run a company that way, or work with people who did.

When you look at a play like that on paper, the numbers look good. But what are you forgetting? You're forgetting that you're building a BUSINESS, and businesses are built around people and relationships.

What I was wondering was whether or not founders really did see that sort of unscrupulous play as an option in their business. Do people actively operate that way? When presented with those facts in such an emotionless narrative, would people buy in? Has humanity sunk so far in the desire to achieve wealth, that we're willing to sacrifice the well being of others? To ignore hardworking people who are helping us build our dream?

I've heard so many stories of engineers getting screwed, and I wondered if people truly operate that way?

I appreciate the candor of your post. Ethics is a fun topic.

I would suggest scrapping the idea of a co-founder and look into hiring contractors. I use them exclusively. You can find great ones in Russia and Eastern Europe for well under $20/hr.

At the end of the day building a business is about creating value (making money), not life-long friendships.

Mea culpa... Rereading your post, the intent didn't come across as well as perhaps it should have and my response didn't consider that. I think its probably fairly clear where my feelings on the matter lie!

To answer your question, yes, there are founders who do think and act that way. I've been on the losing side of similar propositions before (hence my strong feelings on the matter.) Its truly disgusting and I've had a radar for that kind of person in my life ever since.

Glad to know and admit I was wrong about this one, and best of luck in your endeavors.

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