Comment by _cipher_ | Hacker News Reader

Comment by _cipher_ | Hacker News Reader

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The sad thing in this (politics) is that no one gives a sh!t about real people and real situations besides imaginary currency.

Over the last few years, while Greece sinks slowly due to financial situation, IMF and Germany won't back on austerity measures demands. Even if, in reality, those measures are making the country sink even deeper due to very low income and chopping away peoples' pensions.

As I live in Greece, I can say for sure that the situation is getting worse and worse over time. While Greece took huge loans over the last few years, almost everything went to fuel German and French banks so they won't collapse. Very little -if anything- was used to help the situation. But not even those same countries acknowledge that fact. They demand "their" money that used to fuel their banks. Smart thing (not).

Of course I could be a troll and mention that after WWII Germany received a lot of help to be able to reconstruct the country, even if they slaughtered millions across Europe. But that's politics. ;)

Personaly, I'm tired of all that bs. Europe is _not_ a union and this situation is getting out of hand. Supposedly "friendly" countries demanding everything from another member of the "union" is not what Europe was -supposedly- all about.

At least with a new government that is able to say the word 'no' for a change, almost anyone can see the true face of European "union".

> Of course I could be a troll and mention that after WWII Germany received a lot of help to be able to reconstruct the country, even if they slaughtered millions across Europe.

Well, I'm German, and I think that this is an extremely pertinent point. The German economic recovery after WW2 should have been a blueprint for how to deal with the Greek situation. Germany received both cash infusions (the Marshall plan) and benefited from the deferral of debt (the London Agreement on German External Debts) that required Germany to only repay debts when a trade surplus allowed for it. It was a strategy that allowed both economic growth and debt service. Instead, Greece was strangled by an austerity regimen that impeded economic growth and as a consequence also made it impossible for Greece to fix its debt issues.

Yes, the Greek government was cooking the books when it joined the Euro, but as you correctly point out, that doesn't even come close to starting a couple of world wars. Policy-making should focus on fixing economic problems (that 99% of the population aren't responsible for), not exercises in finger-pointing.

Couldn't agree more. Government Bonds (like US Treasuries) can go to zero. Really. Like any other investment. German and French Governments demanding from Greece paying off debt like the bonds are still in 2007 is insane. If bankers took risks bought an asset class without doing their homework and then the asset class goes to zero, our response is to pretend it is not zero and pay off bankers? I'm sorry but I thought capitalism is all about risk and reward. They took their risks, they made mistake, the Market should put them back into their place, so others can learn on it. But none of this counts when you can call up die Frau (Merkel) and extort money.

Even if every Euro of Greece's debt was gone tomorrow the country would still need more money every month than it gets in taxes. That's a long way from Austerity.

There unbalanced budget is 100% Greece's fault and has absolutely nothing to do with the EU. Long term the government has three options, collect more taxes, pay fewer benefits, fail. It's obvious which one Greece wants.

PS: Actually paying down their debt is another issue and would require Greece to maintain a surplus. Though, if they had that surplus they could just default and probably be better off.

Is it then the US's fault, for supporting the Greek dictatorship which incurred a large part of the debt? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967%E2...)

Or is it Germany's fault, because Europe wrote off most of their debt in the 1953's (despite being LITERALLY Nazis...), yet they want to savage a populace for illegitimate odious debt, as well as "payments to Greece" which actually went to French and German banks? (http://www.euronews.com/2015/04/17/chomsky-says-us-is-world-...)

Outstanding Greek debt is irrelevant. They could default tomorrow and get rid of it all.

There problem is they need to borrow more money tomorrow, because their budget is not balanced even if you ignore the debt. And if they default the money truck keeping their country afloat stops showing up.

Do you have any numbers to back up your claim? Please supply links w/ numbers if possible.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/greece-expects-primary-budget-su... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greece-says-eu-imf-lenders-095...

Greece hasn't had a balanced budget in decades, and creditors don't believe that 2015 will be any different. If they can manage to actually not run a deficit in 2015, that would be a great boon for them.

Somehow never was true with Iceland. They never repaid and they are just fine. Actually better than fine. I still remember all this fear-mongering coming from mainstream (i.e. the Economist) that the world will come to an end for Iceland if they don't repay. Nothing happened. They are in much better position than Greece. But they said no to EU demands. They said no to IMF demands. They showed big finger to bankers. And that's the lesson for Greece. They should quit Euro (Merkel will never allow because others would follow suit) and debase currency. Do exactly as Iceland did.

Iceland's situation was nothing like Greece's. Iceland's government defied international pressure to nationalize the debts of its three big, private banks. The banks defaulted, but there was no sovereign default.

The creditors from UK and Netherlands were really pissed off and still are. So mainstream is rewriting the history now?

Indeed. Unfortunately the German economic policy debate is stuck in a past that never happened.

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