But the article makes no mention of computer science or programming. Instead, it talks about engineering, a set of disciplines that may involve programming but often centers on a much different curriculum.
A degree in, say, mechanical or industrial engineering will unlock opportunities that would not be available otherwise.
> "The three majors with the highest ROI in America are Computer Science, Computer Science, and Computer Science."
I don't disagree with you but the context of this publication is absolutely about CompSci.
http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014/best-scho...
They are measuring different things - the atlantic is measuring 20 year ROI, whereas payscale is measuring mid-career salary (according to the payscale methodology, "the typical (median) mid-career employee is 42 years old and has 15 years of experience." So higher initial salaries would fare better on the atlantic survey than the payscale one.
Only Berkeley, Stanford, and CMU show up on both lists, but what data is there does seem to confirm higher initial salaries for elite private college like Stanford (though the publics seem to catch up by mid-career).
I find this pretty fascinating. I'm on track to hit or fall under this begin-your-career-at-the-age-of-27 threshold, but I've never perceived it as typical at all; quite the reverse. What are 50% of people doing until they're 27?
Yes, I agree CS is different from Software Engineering
You can get a loose idea of who's interested in recruiting there by looking at who sponsors senior clinic projects, and what areas they're in, e.g.: http://www.cs.hmc.edu/clinic/projects/
EDIT: my comment was a bit angered, and I apologize for that. Just this morning I found out that a company i had a great interview with yesterday told me that despite liking me the company had a policy that they can't hire senior engineers without a technical degree. Its tough.
Some established licensed and accredited state schools that will grant a degree entirely by examination:
I've also built security practices for three organizations, and can attest that not only is education not a positive hiring factor, it's at best neutral.
In the last seven years I have interviewed more than 150 people and only 2 or 3 did not have relevant technical degree.
Getting a degree can be a good thing, absolutely, but it's by no means a requirement to success.
I tried to go back to Uni but it was: you dropped out, so no loan for you, you have to pay for the first year yourself (we didn't even have loans the first time round).
I have finally done it, this September I start at University once more.
According to many, 20 years of professional programming experience is a death knell to even those with the best degrees money can buy. It is assumed you should have moved on to bigger and better things by that point (not an opinion I hold, but a sentiment that seems pervasive).
Did you find that it became more difficult to find work as you got older?
One of the things that turns me off, though, is the framework de jour scene but the converse is dull plodding.
My degree is a BSc in Supply Chain Management after doing an HNC (part time) in Manufacturing Engineering financing it all working as a Cad draughtsperson for 3 years.
The BSc is about 20% IT based and there's plenty of scope for modeling and statistical analysis so hopefully a perfect blend of skills.
When I look at my debt-ridden peers graduating from top colleges this summer, I can't help but feel happy about my head start: no debt, enough savings to do whatever I please at this point, and an above-average pedigree. But while it may sound like a "success story" to most and I am happy now, I'll be damned if there wasn't 10 years of darkness and constant feelings of inadequacy that I had to plod through very much alone. It's been one heck of a ride, that's for sure.
With a CS degree?
Do you have facts to back that up?
I went to a not-so-fancy state school whose brutalist architecture looked more like a prison than a school. No ivy, few trees, poorly equipped gym. Got out with essentially zero debt, took a salary cut at my first job that was negated by my first job switch two years later.
For me, in the 90's, the choice was about $8,000 in merit aid, ~$9,000 in unsubsidized stafford loans, ~$2,000 in state subsidized loans about something like $7,000 in PLUS loans for my parents. Or $5,000 or in-state tuition.
https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/fact...
Specifically,
> parents making less than $65,000 are expected to contribute $0
> Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income
Check the numbers at any mid-tier private university or engineering school. Maybe things are different now than in the 90s.
Good luck studying on your own to want to work as a chemical engineer because MegaCorp will totally hire you to work with chemicals and there aren't many startups hiring ChemEs.
Also, kids are quite gullible and everything for most kids suggests that you need to go to college. The path goes somewhat like this:
born -> pre-school -> school -> middle/high school -> college
There are a lot of people that take 6 figure loans to study photography, or major in english. That I don't get.
I've always attributed this to
> kids are quite gullible and everything for most kids suggests that you need to go to college
They're doing it because someone told them to do it, no?
More likely I would just sit around playing video games and reading interesting-sounding wikipedia articles, and maybe coding up the occasional fun toy or two until I got bored and ditched it.
Until I started starving, and then go "Well f*&k. Should have thought about that." And I probably wouldn't think about that unless someone is dragging my ass into a college/job.
Most of the self-taught crowd are gunning for web dev or design positions or bolting on some skills to do useful things and never need to make their own 'tools for the job'.
If you're on your last leg for a shot at a career (like I am), there's a pretty big pull to get the minimum knowledge first so you're useful to someone and then go for advanced CS topics once you can pay your bills. A decent position allows saving for a CS degree.
I studied Physics in college, spent a couple years writing test automation, and am now a software engineer. I'm almost-completely self-taught, and have spent the past two years going through all the undergrad CS curriculum. All I have left are Operating Systems, Distributed Systems, and Advanced Algorithms and Data Structures. I use textbooks for when I want to dive deep into the details, and Coursera lectures for higher-level overviews of topics I don't need to know in detail, such as Networking or Compilers.
Getting a child excited about data structures, algorithms, and coding conventions will be difficult.
Have them dream up a guide, and let them fumble through the implementation while seeing the fruits of the labor unfold before them. Now that's excitement. And learning. Without ever feeling the need of forced discipline.
Key word is today. Yes, today, with the DJUSSV up 150% over the past five years, and billions being shelled out for Oculus and Whatsapp and so forth, no degree is needed for many jobs.
What happens when the economy takes a dive like in 2008/2009, or 2000/2001? You get laid off from your company and then send your resume in to open job slots on Craigslist. Except they are getting dozens, maybe hundreds of resumes. Even after culling for relevant experience, companies might have dozens of good looking resumes to choose from. The next obvious way to cull resumes is get rid of the pile with no degrees.
In bad times, CL job ads dry up, especially those not requiring a degree. Even if it doesn't state it explicitly, HR will probably grill you on your education background and plans.
As far as an expensive degree, people can go to a good state school and get Pell grants and the like. As far as people teaching themselves, most good programmers are always teaching themselves. They need a basis to work off of though and a BSCS is that basis. If you're going to spend four years studying the basics you need to know, why not borrow/spend the $50k to go to a very good school like Berkeley or UIUC, down to the $25k for state schools with decent CS programs?
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