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Comment by vasilipupkin | Hacker News Reader

So the logic goes something like this: something bad happened to me once in country X. Therefore, I will not go back to country X. So, if something bad happens to you in Sweden, say a policeman is rude to you, or something like that, will you leave Sweden because of it ?

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Where did I say this is the only reason? I had a great time in the US, and there are plenty of great things about it, but I've had enough bad experiences with various parts of society and government that the upsides of living in the US as opposed to my country is nil. Since I have no family in the US, the decision to move back, while not easy, was the right thing to do.

Edit: as for not returning to visit, I'm not exactly looking forward to being interrogated every time I try to enter, and possibly denied entry again, which I have read in many places will likely happen.

Simply the risk that the time and money you spent on the visit may be wasted, is likely to deter a lot of potential visitors that have other options open to them.

> So, if something bad happens to you in Sweden, say a policeman is rude to you, or something like that, will you leave Sweden because of it ?

No. But if police officers are routinely rude to me, and if I see many reports of officers killing people and beating people - even people who pose no risk to those officers - then I might start thinking about where I live.

What is considered rude from a police officer in Europe is when he does not address you properly.

What is considered rude from a police officer in the US is when they shot you without warning (with a warning, it's normal).

They are lots of places I would love to visit in the US, but current policies are keeping me out (also: beard).

No, the logic goes like this: in "country X", this type of arrogant behavior is supported by the political background, while in "Sweden", there's no polical support for policeman rudeness. This is therefore a perfectly valid reason not to visit "country X".

Ok, but Sweden has its own problems, no? Didn't they have massive riots recently? So, let's rephrase

country X has political support for some sort of bad thing Y, therefore I will never visit country X.

Every place has problems. E.g. Sweden is consensus oriented and has only one officially accepted opinion at a time, so much stuff just can't be discussed. This along with being a small duck pond (the elites, media etc generally know each others) means that problems might be a long time being corrected.

Didn't they have massive riots recently

They where "massive" by Swedish standards, but tiny by any international standard you may care to use. Certainly much much smaller than riots that have happened recently in many other European countries

What makes you think these are isolated experiences? Yes, the article and the parent comment each highlight a specific case, but as someone who's had to re-enter the US multiple times in the past 2 years I can vouch that these are not isolated incidences.

62 million international tourists visited the United States last year and this number has grown over 2011. This makes me think that on average border policy is such that it is possible to navigate the system and not give up on entering the U.S. for good. Having said that, it's clearly regrettable when border agents behave inappropriately

But it's not only the border agents. The same can be said for example about consulate officers when deciding to give or decline a visa. It's the same attitude, you are considered a future felon unless proven otherwise, you are fingerprinted even if it is not known yet if you'll ever step on US soil or not, you are interviewed like a convict that is to be amnestied out of jail, and whatnot. I mean - hey, I'm just predisposed to visit your country as your Hollywood makes a pretty damn good job promoting it, and I have more than enough money to fund my visit there - that's all the info I consider reasonable to provide you with. And you know what? That's all it was necessary to visit other places like Australia, Iceland or China!

Having a policeman being rude to you is not even in the same order of magnitude as being denied entry to a country.

I don't even think it is about being denied entry. Its about how one is denied entry and the conduct of the officials.

That is a bad logic. Being deported from entering a country because you have been visited any place arounf the world is not getting mobbed by a rude officer. It is mobning at the behest of the whole US citizens.

You've obviously never had a run in with Customs, have you? Some countries are far worse than others; those that are, aren't worth going back to, IMO.

This is not a logical issue. It's an emotional one. So, it depends on the person. Wouldn't you held anything against a country if that's country's border control detained you, denied the services you paid for, denied the properties you have in the country, treated you like a sub-human? Would you try to enter that country again? Try, just try to be empathetic...

I agree with you and I am empathetic, but somehow 67 million international tourists manage to enter the U.S. per year, according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings

so perhaps, my advice is, don't overreact.

Rather than directing your "advice" to the victims, direct it to the US immigration officers.

There is no doubt that the U.S. immigration system is broken and needs fixing, this is a complicated political issue that is currently being debated in Congress. Conditional on this unfortunate reality, which we can't immediately change, my advice is not to over-react.

Don't deflect blame onto the system, either. I will accept many excuses for many job choices. I will not accept any excuses for being paid to do this kind of evil. If their behavior were mandated by immigration law (and it's not), they would still be 100% culpable.

The only immigration debate going on in Congress is undocumented workers and increasing visas for a select class of people.

As far as tourists and non-immigrant visas are concerned there is no debate and it's business as usual.

True, but the onerous nature of the experience has impacted the popularity of the US as a tourist destination.

"The United States' share of the total travel market is down, to 11.2 percent in 2010 from 17.3 percent in 2000"

"There were also big declines in the same period in travel from France (down 23.2 percent), Brazil (down 20.3 percent), Germany (down 19.2 percent) and Japan (down 5.8 percent)."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/business/with-brand-usa-us...

It's also a financial and practical issue. Being refused entry at the border can mean significant costs in non-refundable bookings and re-booking of flights. Not to mention the fact that you just wasted some very valuable vacation days (which to many people are worth more than the money they represent).

I know I don't want to waste my vacation days playing bureaucratic Russian roulette when I could spend them in any one of the dozens countries that will happily let me visit with a minimum of fuss.

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