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Comment by dsplittgerber | Hacker News Reader

I am not sure if this is ok to post - I checked the guidelines but found nothing against this. If there is some kind of policy against for feedback like this, I will delete my post. This is definitely not meant to be some kind of ad, just an honest wish for feedback on my conceptual idea. I hope that's ok?

I am new to HN, but Paul Graham had dating on his "ideas" list for startups he would like to fund, so I thought HN might be a good place to discuss it.

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Yeah, seems like a good submission.

A couple thoughts:

People do pay to get into a certain building to meet other single people (I'm thinking about nightclubs and bars that have cover charges here).

Also, your point about people mostly meeting partners through friends is valid but the REAL question is does it happen this way becasue that's the 'best' way to meet somebody or becasue it's currently one of the biggest ways humans meet new people? In other words, does it work this way becasue this way works best, or does it work this way because it just happens to provide the most chances?

That being said, your assessment of the problem is solid. It's an idea worth honing in on. The one thing you'd want to be able to hang onto from the "walled garden" sites is the fact that everyone there has expressed interest and availability for a dating relationship. This lowers the risk for those who do the asking since you are less likely to get rebuffed in the "EW, I'm dating already, thank you very much creepo!" sort of way.

The nightclub comparison isn't like dating sites - the traditional dating site is more closely related to matchmaking agencies. I mean sure, you pay to get into a building with other single people - but the purpose is not to find a date, or heck, even converse with them.

but the purpose is not to find a date, or heck, even converse with them.

I don't know if you quite understand the colloquialism "being on the pull"

That is the entire point of going into a nightclub/pub in this scenario, to meet people.

All of the ingredients are there - a gathering of people and social lubrication (alcohol)... perfect for the dating scenario.

That's why there's an entire industry around picking up in bars/clubs.

What potatolicious implied is that people don't go to bars and nightclubs to find dates, they go to find partners for casual sex.

You haven't spoken to many women about it have you?

Male perspective - bars + clubs = casual sex*

Female perspective - bars + clubs = for dating*

*There will obviously be outliers in both cases, but that's generally how it plays out.

I think you accurately represent the male and female perspectives on singles bars, but there's a hitch: singles bars only work for sex. People at singles bars don't act remotely "themselves." The guys are puffy and douchey. The girls are silly and giddy (or drunk and slutty.) There's no point in picking someone up in a singles bar unless you don't give a crap what they're really like, because they're acting completely differently than they would in any other context. Basically, singles bars only work for the people who are in heat, hook up, and have sex. If you don't get laid, then all you get out of it is the name and phone number of someone who is essentially a total stranger whom you know nothing about.

That's why people give up on singles bars, except for guys who are hot or slick enough to get laid and the girls who are actually looking for sex and not a boyfriend (or who think that having one-night stands is a good way of looking for a boyfriend.) Most guys are disillusioned when they figure out they're not getting sex, just phone numbers from girls who look a lot less interesting in sunlight and sobriety. Most girls are disillusioned when they figure out that the only way to get any attention is to act like they're in the mood to put out if they meet the right guy. Both sexes are disillusioned when they realize they want their sexuality to be an integral part of who they are, not an entirely separate aspect of their personality, an inner douchebag/hoebag that comes out at night and does embarrassing, tasteless things.

Actually I'm not representing singles bars at all, I think the difference here is mostly cultural.

In Australia, we generally don't distinguish between singles bars and regular ones - in fact, I don't think I can actually name any place that would be qualified by anyone I know as a "singles bar"

Essentially, if you're single and your out in a club/pub here in the great land of Oz, your free game.

Whoops, that's a big difference. I was reading you in an American context. In the US, different bars have very different vibes. Singles bars are known as "meat markets" and are pretty much like resort bars -- people acting out bizarre, tasteless fantasies of themselves based on what they imagine other people want to see. Singles bars have a high profile in the culture but aren't actually popular except among a small, mostly college-aged part of the population. At regular bars, people who are at the bar are open to being approached, but the actual bar may be a relatively small part of the establishment. It's fine to approach lone women at tables and ask if you can join them, but if they're with friends at a table it's more complicated. A lot of people go to bars to meet up with their friends and their friends' friends, and they don't really want to be approached by strangers. Sometimes if you make eye contact with a cute girl you can get a clear nonverbal invite, but barring that you'll seem awkward or arrogant if you try to join them. (But if you're sitting with a group at a big table, and the person next to you is in a different group, it's often natural to strike up a conversation with them. Like I said, it's complicated.)

At the places I go to, most of the hooking up happens between people who had a prior connection, who met elsewhere or who met at the bar through common friends. Australian bars sound like more fun.

Me and most people I know are skeptical of actually finding a significant other in a bar. It's difficult to get to know someone in an environment like that - particularly when it's that noisy.

But you mentioned the pick-up artist community, and they are focused on sex, not relationships. It seemed to me you missed the parent post's innuendo.

Thanks for your feedback!

Great point about the most efficient way to meet a partner! This is indeed a great question one should ask oneself. I see a problem with that approach though: I guess many people don't want to mix 'efficiency' with dating and human interactions and emotions too much. It's probably socially accepted to use dating sites, but are we already on our way to rethink our entire approach to dating?

The expression of interest is indeed a good concept to hang on to. Which is why social networks are especially suitable for adding dating - you can add a simple "are you open to dating approaches?"-setting.

Agreed. In fact, I think getting 6 pages of profile to look through to try to find somebody you may want to contact on a dating site is counterproductive and probably frustrates people a lot.

At first I thought that maybe your idea subverts the role of the intermediate players in our lives. (The people who go "Hey, I know this person you should me, let me introduce you.") But what if you actually allowed that to happen in the social 'net? Do you think it would be handy if you could anonymously suggest to friend A and Friend B that they connect if they don't know each other?

Good questions. What value do intermediate players provide?

Is it in them playing cupid or is it in them being a trustee? Why do people who are introduced to each other go along and talk to the other one - is it because they are interested in a stranger or because they trust the intermediate player?

I tend to think it's the latter which is why anonymous suggestions may not work. What do you think?

Hmm, good question. If you knew it was through a mutual friend it could still work, but maybe it should not be anonymous.

Like TrevorJ said, meeting people through a circle of friends may not be the best method for landing a date, but it could help to relieve the lingering stigmas of online dating.

I know many people that still frown upon and feel uneasy about digital hookups. It might be useful to investigate ways of reaching these people. Maybe like a dating site in disguise?

Or they could just lie about it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fuffer2005/3216972462/

No, it's cool - good article in fact, although I'm not sure I see a clear path to monetization in there. After all, one could do a facebook addon called 'you'd be perfect (for each other)' and let people play matchmaker for fun.

On the dating-as-sales-generator, Mrs Browl keeps telling me to set up 'forgetfulguy.com' so you can put info about your significant other and it will remind you to buy flowers and so forth. Maybe she's trying to tell me something...

I personally think that a blog post as an extended Ask HN is a reasonable way to go. I've considered it myself. This is a fine line. I can see self-posting as the way to spam, especially for opinion pieces. People who regularly blog shouldn't self-post.

That said, I think yours falls within the spirit of Ask HN. Others considering doing so should contribute more before such a post to get a feel for what works an what doesn't.

> People who regularly blog shouldn't self-post.

I think a better rough policy there is people who regularly blog shouldnt self-post every story :D

One reason I like HN is the community doesnt seem to care much about shameless self promotion or casual self posting so long as it is interesting :D

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