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Comment by BrianEatWorld | Hacker News Reader

I would say I am optimistic as well because, having been a dedicated "Big Picture" user for the past few months, it is clear Valve has put a lot of thought into this transition. However, what bothered me about the controller is that it doesn't seem to actually be that different.

I don't see how this markedly improves over current controllers and their integration. The key genres for which the current controllers don't work, such as RTS, don't seem to be that much better off with this solution. Maybe its just a lack of imagination on my part, but I will have to see more to be convinced.

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The first game they show a sreenshot of is Civilization. I'm sure RTS was one of the main genres they tested the controller with.

From the announcement:

> Even the older titles in the catalog and the ones which were not built with controller support. (We’ve fooled those older games into thinking they’re being played with a keyboard and mouse, but we’ve designed a gamepad that’s nothing like either one of those devices.)

(Yes, i know Civ isn't an RTS, but it is a strategy game that is unplayable on a stardard controller)

Civilization is a turn based strategy game. The "RT" (real-time) part is what really makes gamepads unsuitable for RTS. I play Starcraft 2 and I can't imagine how you could possibly select individual units and pull them back when they are taking damage. Show me someone doing blink stalker micro with a gamepad and I will eat my words.

>I play Starcraft 2 and I can't imagine how you could possibly select individual units and pull them back when they are taking damage

You're not really arguing whether the Steam controller is bad -- you're simply saying any gamepad would be bad for Starcraft/RTS.

This is likely never going to change -- unless an RTS is designed from the early stages of development to be usable on gamepads, no gamepad will ever be acceptable for a game like Starcraft that requires 40+ actions per minute at the very lowest levels of play and 300-500 actions per minute by the professional level players. I doubt that there will ever be any controller better suited for a high-micro RTS than the keyboard/mouse combo (except perhaps some kind of direct brain-signals-to-game-input method in the not so near future ).

You know, as a 80APM mid level player I wonder if this will be usable for me. I love Starcraft but I'm pretty sure the fast wrist movements are seriously screwing up my wrists, and I don't even play that much, so it would be worth it to me to try out an alternative interface, even if it's a little slower, if I can not fuck up my wrists before I turn 30. Though I have tried playing with a trackball and it also sucks so dunno if this can be any better, but I'll probably give it a try at least. Hmm... probably not really going to work with control groups and spells and the like, but maybe I could play team games with it lol.

i'd bet some dollars on dota 2 and tf2 working at near-mouse+keyboard efficiency - those are their main money printing machines right now (...besides the cut sales) and they can't afford to segment their player base by controller, so they must have something in store.

DotA was the main title I was thinking about. If they can make DotA playable with this then I think they are on to something special. DotA is intimidating enough using K+M, if they break down the hotkey barrier with an intuitive controller, they stand to gain a lot.

As somebody that played a lot of dota, specially in W3 Dota, if they can pull of dota with a pad I would be shocked.

The only games that are even harder are very fast RTS like Star Craft 2.

I cant imagen that it will work well, but Im open to beeing suprised.

I imagine it'd take some practice getting used to, but if they implemented both pads affecting the same cursor at different ratios, i.e. one for broad movements and one for more precise control, I would think someone who got used to it could be even more precise that they could be with a mouse.

It sounds to me like you would be able to use the trackpad regions as either "joysticks" or "trackpads" which means for an RTS game you would be no worse off than using a trackpad over a mouse. Other games might be better using them as joysticks where the input re-centers if you lift up from the control surface. Seems like a pretty big improvement over traditional controllers without any significant downsides.

> which means for an RTS game you would be no worse off than using a trackpad over a mouse.

Just about anyone who plays RTSs would agree that trackpads are completely unacceptable for input. For a game like SC2, you might as well not even play, because you would be lose so badly at against anyone at a similar skill level.

I figure they're trying to be optimistc about it... it might not measure up to a mouse, of course, but either way it's a huge improvement. This device will get you from "this is completely unplayable" to "hey I can get through the single-player campaign and maybe do some co-op comp-stomping with my buds"

Exactly. They could even allow an option for only matching you with people with similar control configs for some games.

I agree, though I think a thumb trackpad probably gives you a little more precision than a regular trackpad. That might be the difference between unplayable and barely playable. I guess you might be able to play against someone a league below you or something, which might not be too bad if you just want to relax for a bit.

Hotkeys are pretty important for RTSes too (at least SC2). I will definitely try this out for ergonomics reasons but I don't know if they'll have enough hotkeys to make it playable at a reasonable level. But maybe if buttons are context sensitive or something it could work out.

That's why you've got the touchscreen.

SC2 at least uses ~half the keys on the keyboard. Anyone above the absolute bottom rung (bronze) is going to use these extensively.

It has a mouse replacement for RTS and FPS, can emulate all the buttons for games that need buttons, and has 2 big analogic sticks for games that need them.

Looks like a nice new thing, not as different as the kinetic or wiimote, but not more of the same either.

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