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Comment by Hnrobert42 | Hacker News Reader

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Hnrobert42

But do they really? Can you point a real, evil villain saying that?

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Here you go: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48857068

Do you really not understand the difference between the one you cited and the one to which I was responding?

The one to which I was responding was capricious. The one you cited has reasoning, even if you disagree with it.

And that was the whole point of my comment. That by reducing the other side to a farcical strawman, you diminish your own argument. It just becomes a yelling match.

I would rather debate the person you cited than sit complacently with the cynic to whom I responded.

You shifted the goalposts quite a lot there; first you wanted an example of evil, and now you want an example of unreasoning evil.

Evil is often very reasonable; pretending otherwise is a 'farcical strawman' of your own.

Do you believe the example given was evil? I believe they are wrong not evil. That's what I mean that I will not be a cynic.

I think we are all villains here. Good healthcare coverage is just another status symbol to be attained. If the poor have it then it becomes less of a value. To some degree we are all wired this way and we all suffer because of it.

I'm not sure I agree. Poor health is not always obvious and your health insurance provider is not conspicuous in most interactions.

I have had VASTLY better free health coverage (OHP, Portland OR via Providence) than the current Kaiser dreck I and employer pay significant sums for.

Healthcare is not a flex, and it my experiences on the west coast, it's an inverse correlation to wealth. :/

You're getting down voted, but there's substance here. A "job with benefits" is a badge of honor for some. That means they've "worked hard" and "earned it".

>I think we are all villains here. Good healthcare coverage is just another status symbol to be attained.

Seriously? How many conversations have you been in where people were bragging about how good their health coverage is and trying to one-up each other? The extent I've experienced is stuff along the lines of "thank god I had my health plan, because otherwise it would have cost [6 figures]", but it didn't give the impression that they'd be mad if everyone didn't have to suffer that fate.

Funny enough I have had this conversation during the ACA “Obama Care” national (US) debate in the early 2000s. I have had one of my colleagues say if we give healthcare to everybody then it will affect his care negatively. He would rather limit it to people who deserve it (through merit) so he can have his pick of quality doctors. These people absolutely do exist.

Not a one. But... I have had many conversations with people who feel they have "earned" healthcare because they "worked hard" and finally obtained a "job with benefits".

And this is exactly why those same people do NOT want universal healthcare.

> How many conversations have you been in where people were bragging about how good their health coverage is and trying to one-up each other

Do imaginary conversations in the shower count?

See everyone who decries student loan forgiveness as an example.

Government subsidized sudent loan forgiveness is a regressive tax, though, which makes it quite unpopular in the non educated that on average earn less.

The root cause is still cultural. Nobody wants to pay taxes that are helping someone else. Whether that "other" is in a different economic class, different race, different gender, has different political beliefs, lives in a different state, it's always the same mentality: "I don't want my tax dollars to pay for people I have determined to be 'others' and culturally different from me." Heaven forbid someone who doesn't deserve it or doesn't need it, get help.

But that is not the topic being discussed. Is it?

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