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Comment by kubb | Hacker News Reader

This isn’t going to get fixed in my lifetime, and that’s sad. Countries have lost the ability to act.

Plenty of countries have moved away from DST. Over half who previously used it IIRC.

Please name some of these countries. Europe is stuck with this nonsense and there is no hope in sight despite yearly polls showing majority people being against it.

> Please name some of these countries

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_by_countr... since 2000:

   Paraguay       2024
   Iran           2022
   Jordan         2022
   Syria          2022
   Fiji           2021
   Samoa          2021
   Brazil         2019
   Morocco        2018
   Western Sahara 2018
   Namibia        2017
   Tonga          2017
   Mongolia       2016
   Turkey         2016
   Azerbaijan     2015
   Uruguay        2015
   Russia         2014
   Libya          2013
   Armenia        2011
   Belarus        2010
   Falklands      2010
   Argentina      2009
   Bangladesh     2009
   Mauritius      2009
   Pakistan       2009
   Tunisia        2008
   Iraq           2007
   Guatemala      2006
   Honduras       2006
   Nicaragua      2006
   Sri Lanka      2006
   Georgia        2005
   Kyrgyzstan     2005
   Kazakhstan     2004

At first glance, seems most of those are closer to the Equator than Western Europe. The exceptions I see are Russia and Kazakhstan.

Most countries are closer to the equator than European countries.

And Spain is on the same latitude as Turkmenistan.

Yeah, which is why DST matters more in Europe. Spain might not need it though.

British Columbia is far from the equator and just removed DST (permanent summer time).

Queensland Australia, a single state moved away from it. It is glorious.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/australia/brisbane

Queensland Australia is relatively close to the equator, and the length of day does not change dramatically between summer and winter.

DST is intended for places at higher latitudes.

No, it is intended for a small band of places where the latitude is big enough to make winter and summer daytime length significantly different, but not so different that DST does nothing. In Sweden, with DST, the sunrise is at 4am in summer and 8am in winter. Just set it so noon is actually noon.

> In Sweden, with DST, the sunrise is at 4am in summer and 8am in winter.

In Sweden, in summer without DST, sunrise in Stockholm would happen ~2:30 AM. In the current system, with DST, sunrise happens around 3:30 AM, an improvement.

In winter, if Sweden kept permanent DST (which is what many advocate for), sunrise in December would happen at around 9:45 AM. In the current system (shifting time back during winter), it happens around 8:45 AM, a more reasonable time.

You realize you're literally proving my point?

> Just set it so noon is actually noon.

Pretty meaningless to advocate for this, then every longitude would have its own timezone, defeating the purpose of timezones.

Well, you certainly got a combative tone. I don't care if it's 8:45 or 9:45, it is what it is. You don't get more or fewer hours of sun, it's dark when you go to work, it's dark when you get home from work. With DST. Noon at noon is pretty much what the time zones are aiming for, yes.

> You don't get more or fewer hours of sun

Technically correct but false in practice. DST shifts sunlight hours to when people tend to be awake, giving the average person more hours of sun per day.

Sun received while asleep is not useful.

Queensland may be, but Brisbane is not relatively close to the equator. Its 27 degrees. Tip of cape york is 10 degrees, thats a pretty big difference.

It can be dark in Brisbane and still light at my parents house near cape york.

Cape York is also 10 degrees west of Brisbane. That alone gets sunset 40 minutes later even if you stay at the same latitude.

I feel like its.. much longer than 40 minutes.

You've said this repeatedly, but it is largely not true.

Elaborate.

The intent of DST is to normalize variations in the time of sunrise between summer and winter.

Places closer to the equator have minimal variation in the time of sunrise between seasons. They don't need DST.

Higher latitudes have large variation (i.e. Seattle, where the time of sunrise shifts between 4am in summer to 8am in winter), so they benefit from DST or summer/winter hours.

DST is one of the simplest implementations of seasonal hours on a regional scale.

> The intent of DST is to normalize variations in the time of sunrise between summer and winter.

The intent of DST was to conserve energy by moving daylight into the evening hours. However, it turned out that people need light in the morning, too, and that DST had no effect on overall energy usage.

So, why not end this failed experiment and return to how it was before?

And please let's go with standard time, i.e. where the sun is at its highest point around the 12:00 o'clock mark.

Office hours are a lame excuse as most modern jobs - especially those of people on this site - surely allow flexible time. And even if not, every company is free to adjust office hours during the year - as it's already done in e.g. Turkey since they got rid of DST. Same with school hours, store opening hours, etc. - I'm pretty sure they will adjust where needed.

If you like disturbing your sleep cycle twice a year so much, feel free to change the wakeup time on your alarm clock whenever you wish.

(If it weren’t such a hassle with date changes, I'd vote for world-wide UTC, btw. And I'd love some unified decimal date/time system even more.)

What people usually mean by abolishing DST is permanent summer hours. If your problem was sunrise timing, then problem solved - DST actually moves that earlier than you require twice a year for normal working hours (i.e. less sun in the evenings). Source: my own high latitude life.

Abolishing DST for permanent summer hours don't address the winter sunrise issue.

Under permanent DST, the sun rises around 9 AM in December in Seattle. That's far too late. I, and millions of other people, do not want to wake up 2 hours before sunrise and drive to work in the dark.

Under the current system (DST reverts back during winter), sunrise is shifted an hour earlier to around 8AM, which is manageable. I don't have to drive to work in the dark.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/seattle

If the morning commute is the only issue, then it is likely that in the relatively near future (all things being equal) work life may revert back to its pre-automobile mode where your work was either at home or fairly close to your home. That may end DST.

I guess you're fine commuting home in the dark? But regardless, you can navigate without light an hour before sunrise.

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