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Comment by mellosouls | Hacker News Reader

A non-paywalled discussion on the subject from a year ago:

Nightclub stickers over smartphone rule divides the dancefloor (85 points, 91 comments)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42352825

I've never understood the appeal of so-called "dance" events.

Crowds of thousands like sardines swaying-at-best to the DJ being treated as a rockstar but without the talent and entertainment as far as I can see.

Note: this isn't a rockist viewpoint; I'm a dancer who is frustrated at the lack of options to actually move about in space on a dancefloor with other dancers who are there to actually, you know, dance.

I hate the way the word has been co-opted by what appears to be a generation of drugged-out sheep who seem incapable of soulful movement.

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Sounds like you agree with TFA:

> “Nobody was asking for the screen to be bigger. Nobody was asking for more production, more lasers. Literally, the number one complaint every year was, ‘Hey, you guys are overselling these shows, we want more room to dance.’”

Just regarding the drugs: I can totally understand when people are anti-drugs. I’d say it still depends on someone’s personality though. I’ve always thought that drugs and alcohol don’t really change your personality they just amplify it. If someone’s not really a dancer and maybe a bit anxious (seemingly every kid these days) they end up taking a load of drugs to compensate but just end up vegetated. If you’re already someone who feels the music and feels free enough to dance then honestly taking some drugs can be quite the experience.

Yeah my point is really about how the drugs now seem to be a necessary catalyst for the communal experience they are going for - but what they are going for isn't dance in the sense of moving about in creative individual physical expression.

Whereas the dance scenes I've formerly attended were heavy in drug use but the main thing people are there for is dancing.

Yeh. I mean I ultimately completely agree with your last paragraph. Society seems to have shifted and no amount of lasers and drugs is able to make people move! Also to your point moving actually takes up a lot of space and, thus, less tickets. It’s really better for maximising profits if people don’t move and ideally advertise the event for you.

I dont think so. People who did not dance unless they drunk at least a little were super normal a generation ago. They did not ended in vegetative state or "compensating a lot".

Alcohol removed inhibitions and that allowed them to dance.

The attention economy requires sacrificial likes, lest you lose followers. People can't just enjoy themselves, they need to generate FOMO or do/show something outrageous in front of a camera 24/7.

Dancing is fun. Dancing in a crowd is freeing because you feel less self conscious. I encourage my kids to dance. DJs.. I don't know. I guess I grew up in an era when they weren't stars.

Well, yes. I was in Ibiza in a techno club (Pascha) and yes. I had a great time dancing the first two hours but by the time it got 2am the club was so jampacked it took me half an hour to crawl through the crowd to the exit.

I don't think this is fun either, no. Definitely not possible to dance. They do have an expensive VIP area with lots of space but there people were just sitting at tables, not dancing either.

But most clubs I go to aren't overfilled like that.

My seven year old boy likes to spin in circles. I think he likes the stimulation from the inner ear fluid sloshing around. Dancing in a club seems similar.

(Parent comment) Me too! But that's my point, you can't spin or do anything at these events, except for small pockets at the fringes; dancers are outliers now.

you know that people really go there to dance and enjoy the music?

A friend of mine is a professional (modern) dancer, so has as much credentials as you can, and she enjoys dancing in berlins nightlife. She finds the space for expression and creativity in her movement, in tune with the music. Of course, the is not much physical space, which is how the dance-movements evolved as they have (e.g you never spin and you feet never really leave the space they are on). But this is part of the culture, and not a problem. If you can't find it then that's your problem, but doesn't mean that other's can not freely express themselves there.

There's more dance-events. Not sure where you are, but you can usually go to a bachata night as it's quite trendy now, northern soul is also getting some revivial. There's also more disco-oriented events usually at various LGBTQ+-parties, I think especially italo-disco is a lot of fun. You can just go out and dance. Lindy Hop also has a solid community around the world.

Thanks - yes I'm aware of most of those (my handle here is a northern soul record) and do attend but they are relatively niche and I resent the current way mainstream dance music events are presented to the world as something that seems counter to the notion.

Btw I've seen great dancers who barely move their feet; my concern is with the culture where individual expression is subordinated to the cult of commune and the DJ.

As others here have pointed out that is partly down to the promoters packing in as many people as they can; I think control moving over the years from love of the form to strictly commerce has caused a significant change in culture.

Maybe different people like different things?

Dance isn’t just an art form. It’s also about the commune. It’s also about letting yourself go and sometimes with a DJ or artist to guide the experience.

Sounds like concerts are not a good space for the enjoyment you get out of dance. But it’s a great space for the dance experience many others want.

I'm a Scottish Country dancer. Our events have actual dancing, though of course in a particular style that requires quite a bit of practice to get comfortable with. There are (often small) groups all over the world. Likewise for many other sorts of social dance, we often have shared events with English Country dance groups, Ceilidh groups, and Contra groups, because all 4 styles are related. "Dance" no longer means much, but it's very often possible to find some form of dance that involves actual movement.

Alternatively, the pit at a metal show is much more than just swaying around.

I grew up in the 90s and we already had XTC. (Funny story about that it was invented by an actual chemist student like a real life "Breaking Bad")

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