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Comment by sho_hn | Hacker News Reader

In Konsole's defense, this is the actual default appearance of a Konsole window when you launch it for the first time in the current stable release:

https://mero.ng/i/lWMWazUP.png

The screenshot on the website has all sorts of optional bits enabled, and I would readily agree is not a good showcase.

The reason all those optional bits exist is because you'd be surprised who ends up using a terminal emulator in a general purpose desktop GUI used in many large IT deployments. E.g. a lot of folks who are used to PuTTy on Windows and want a little GUI for SSH connections, and for them this is the game changer.

The "try to show all the goods in your screenshot" mindset is really not a good one though, agree :)

View on HN

https://imgur.com/a/konsole-vs-ghostty-tR4Otmy

This is stock Konsole vs Ghostty. Notice Ghostty also has multiple tabs open. There is just so much waste in the Konsole UI.

Stock yes. Just hide the toolbar. I don't like that either. Turn off main toolbar and session toolbar.

That's better, but the toolbar/buttons could always be configured away. The real problem is the context menu. Has it been simplified or made configurable?

Out of interest, what do you use the context menu for in a terminal emulator so often that it bothers you? I can't even remember the last time I opened it.

I hide all UI and use only the context menu, 90% of the time to open a new tab, 5% of the time to split a tab, and 4% of the time to bring up the config dialog. 1% to open a new window, though I'm often doing Ctrl+Alt+T for that recently.

This is what I've done since SGI 4DWM Terminal (and ancient NT Command Prompt), and almost all other terminal emulators can be configured to do so. Konsole stands alone (to my knowledge) in its insistence on cruft all over the interface. The terminal widget itself seems fine.

To be clear, I don't mind obscure options, but they should live in the control panel. See my cousin comment for more details.

All these things have keyboard shortcuts If the context menu bothers you, it would seem worth it to use them for frequent actions. CTRL+Shift+T opens a new tab for instance. It's way more efficient anyway in an app that's so keyboard centric.

I don't find that context menu so bad to be honest. If you use it often you should know where things are anyway.

Overall I'm quite surprised at the hate Konsole receives in this HN thread. Removing the toolbars is two clicks away and only needs to be done once. Even the menu bar can be hidden. Such a konsole window would be just the terminal, no cruft, no UI elements. To me we are in the "some people will never be happy for no clear reasons" territory.

I've been using it for years I'm very happy with it. Its search feature is awesome, and its ability to have infinite scroll history is very nice too, it has decent performance.

The one terrible thing I have seen about konsole is that the toolbar buttons were highjacking the keyboard bindings in the terminal, but it was a bug, I think this is now fixed and a workaround was to remove the toolbar.

When I'm making a new tab, usually I'm coming from the browser or file-manager, so my hand is already on the mouse. Am clicking on the term anyway.

No other mainstream GUI term has these clutter issues. They are small issues to be sure, but unnecessary.

But surely you are going to use the keyboard once you have switched to the new tab? It's a terminal after all.

When I start typing I want to execute the new idea immediately. No other tabbed terminal (that I’ve used) prevents this besides konsole, simply because the context menu is (un)optimized to include the kitchen sink instead of the one item I want.

Folks trying to talk me into a new workflow can’t succeed because I’m multiplatform. Gnome terminal, iTerm2, Win Terminal, etc. konsole is the oddball and least used of the group. Partly because the context menu is a mess.

I'm actually surprised you're complaining about Konsole then, given iTerm2's context menu almost doesn't fit on my screen.

Would prefer it much smaller, but it has what I need, is better organized, items are at least theoretically useful, doesn’t include the full menu, and I don’t use it as much.

Bottom line, it doesn’t prevent my workflow.

Fair enough. I usually switch to the terminal using alt+tab.

> To me we are in the "some people will never be happy for no clear reasons" territory.

That's because you ignore/downplay the very clear reason of space waste expressed in the conversation.

No, I mentioned that this is solved with a couple of clicks to do once if you are bothered by this. I see few reasons to complain really. One could prefer having different defaults (and I would, actually), but it's not like their are awful neither.

Had the toolbars been difficult or impossible to customize or remove, I wouldn't say, but here ulyou can make it look to your taste completely. The issue is a taste question and is a "meh" at best.

Yes, that's the downplaying part. Configuring bad default away doesn't make a user happy the bad default existed and required wasting time fixing it (of course it's not a couple of clicks, that's also downplaying, you'd have to first acquire the knowledge that it's possible (not all UIs can be customized) and how to do it (e.g., some DEs require installing some DE Shell Extension to be able to find the relevant config))

Defaults cannot always please every unique user. That's an impossible goal.

It's fine that impossibly picky users get to click through a few settings once to set their environment to their liking. I'm one myself sometimes.

I wonder if vocal people here who hate this minor (yes, I'll die on this hill) stuff so much took the time to even report this as an issue in KDE's bugtracker. Here's the link if it's not already done:

https://bugs.kde.org

> Defaults cannot always please every unique user. That's an impossible goal.

You're just continuing in your quest to ignore the issue. Just set the goal at "most users", that's fine, you'll still need to defend this actual screen waste to make an argument, but you can't hide behind a generic "can't please everyone"

> hate

There is no hate, you've made it up to make your argument sound better.

> this minor (yes, I'll die on this hill)

No one is looking at, let alone fighing, you on this imaginary hill. The other commenter explicitly said it's not a big issue. I also agree it's minor. Stop bringing more straws for your scarecrow!

> took the time to even report this

To waste it on a repeat of this argument with ~0 chance of a win? Again, you've made up that hate, so there is no motivation in doing that, a more productive use of that time is to use a better terminal (or just configure it away), so that's usually what happens

You can eliminate that 90% by Ctrl+Shift+T.

Doesn't help when coming from a browser. Ctrl+Alt+T works without the Terminal in focus however. Ctrl+Shift+T needs me to click in the terminal first then go back to the keyboard. Waste of time.

I almost always switch windows with Alt+Tab, not with a mouse, so it fits very well for that flow. Understandable if it doesn't do the trick for you though.

I’m well aware of all these hotkeys. The issue is I’m using the mouse with my browser, scrolling clicking etc. Reading gives me an idea so I click on my terminal that’s always open. This is the best time to open a tab imho, and have been doing it for decades.

Thankfully there are a dozen terminals to choose from that don’t make konsole’s minor mistakes. (Although chances are they made others.)

I don't think it's super complex with a ton of options any more. Just installed cachyos(arch based) kde plasma and the right click menu looks like this https://i.imgur.com/S59wy2H.png so either they are configuring away a lot of the complexity or the updates to it have been slimming.

- Four, no really four ways to copy...

- Change encoding? I have never changed the encoding of my terminal, not once since first using a computer, circa 1982. UTF8-FTW.

- Adjust scrollback, on the context menu?

- If you hide the toolbar/menu I believe it adds the main menu to the context menu. And that is where the majority of the hundred options live. And at the end, where a Properties or Preferences entry should live.

- Last but not least, no "New Tab" entry, which is the thing I use it for 90% of the time.

double click the tab area and you get a new tab. ctrl-n gets you a new tab. i personally wouldn't ever use that feature.

I like the extra modes of copying since they all have unique uses and prevent editing in cases.

the encoding bit is odd yeah. adjust scrollback is not a common option i suppose.

it would be nice to configure the right click menu more but that's not an option i see in many apps so it's a wash. I use the menu so i don't have those options. it may even be configurable via a file somewhere in .config... i haven't tried or been bothered by the defaults enough to do so.

I am mainly an urxvt user but actually use konsole once in a while specially for this kind of advanced feature

> Four, no really four ways to copy...

All of which are useful

> Change encoding? I have never changed the encoding of my terminal, not once since first using a computer, circa 1982.

Then you've never worked with Japanese. Which is fine, but a significant proportion of the world needs to.

> UTF8-FTW

Not for Japanese, sadly.

Neither useful for a very large majority of people. Yet you’ve decided we must avoid them every time we look at the context menu.

Also neglected the point elsewhere that obscure options are fine in control panels, auxiliary and submenus.

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