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Comment by rekenaut | Hacker News Reader

I've discovered that the people I most enjoy being around are those that are authentically optimistic. Not those that are blind to everything negative, and not those who are faking it to ameliorate themselves, but those who are encouraged by the opportunity for a better tomorrow. Astonishingly, these are often people that have suffered overwhelming personal tragedy. I've also noticed that the more time I spend around these people, the more emotionally resilient I become myself to difficulties.

There seems to be common sentiment that being optimistic is somehow ignorant or otherwise insidious. Maybe this is true, but I am already too familiar with the acute pain that comes with a life entrenched in pessimism to allow myself to fall into that spiral.

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"A cynic is never wrong, but an optimist is always right" is a saying my friends and I have. Chronic pessimists and cynics often see and say much truth about the world. But the optimists will succeed much more in their goals, business, relationships, and many other parts of life. They have a deeper set of values and philosophy that is more right, even if they get the particulars wrong sometimes.

There are tons of comments online that claim emotionally secure and mature people are ignorant or even irresponsible if they're not in perpetual anxiety about the world. The "you should be scared with the way the world is" type. Obviously, what they claim is not true, and it's very unhealthy. But someone who is emotionally secure understands they gain nothing from a neurotic debate online, so they don't call these opinions out. The opinions remain there, unchallenged, seemingly agreeable and prevalent.

Life entrenched in pessimism is also a bit contagious. Though I don't want to be unkind, I have to be honest: there is a limit to how much I can try to help someone with that mindset before they drag me down with them. Something I learned studying field medicine (and this isn't some secret in the first responder world or just general knowledge) is that you protect your safety first. If you arrive in a situation and add yourself to the casualty list, you are just not helping anyone: you get hurt, and you create more work. I think this applies not only to physical hazards, but also to emotional ones. One more depressed person in the world does not make it a better place for anyone.

It makes sense to exercise some caution, and most of our emotional brains understand that. This brings me back to the original point — it's hard for one to succeed anywhere if everyone's avoiding them (best case scenario) or being turned negative themselves (worst case scenario). Much remains to be said about the internet's role in this epidemic of negativity and various depressive disorder crises.

Ah yes the "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention" crowd. As if being pissed-off and scared is the highest acme of civic participation. Outrage and fear are, at best, merely the initial reaction before getting off your ass and actually doing something to change things. Sitting around in perpetual outrage is actually a maladaptive reaction and the mark of someone who has chosen to be completely impotent and powerless. Usually because they don't want the burden of taking responsibility. And hey, if that's the decision you've made, fine, you have your reasons, but then that means presumably you make peace with that decision and stop complaining. And certainly you don't shame others for what you clearly see as your own failings. It's kind of a shit or get off the pot situation.

You can find out who is right the most by seeing who wins the most prediction contests. Those are the realists. The optimists and pessimists, by contrast, are living in imaginary worlds.

If you're talking about something we can't change, sure. Not all questions are like that.

"Will this person treat me fairly/kindly?" Often your optimism/pessimism will be a self fulfilling prophecy.

"Is this rainy day a good thing or a bad thing?" (An example from the article.) It turns out, you get to decide.

Yes. But the quote contrasts facts/predictions with wisdom.

I looked at the article and it's more about grouchy vs jolly, than about optimism than pessimism. Not the same ;).

I speak about the core philosophy or set of values more. Both people who are generally pessimistic in their world view and typically optimistic can be jolly and grouchy, depending on their mood. I am talking more about their overarching outlook.

The parent comment to my original comment mentioned people who are "fake" optimists. I would describe them as jolly or bubbly often, but ultimately pessimistic. That's why their positivity feels disingenuous. It is a facade or a mask. I appreciate their effort, I am simply drawing a distinction between jolly/grouchy and optimistic/pessimistic.

  > Astonishingly, these are often people that have suffered overwhelming personal tragedy.

It sounds cliche, but a pair of the most powerful people I’ve known (in terms of personality) are near death survivors.

One was in a small plane crash, the other was a SEAL that went into Grenada. He had rather long scar on his neck.

Very positive people, almost, but not quite, devil may care.

And it brings to mind a line from an early episode from “The Expanse”, where a character nearly died and, later returned on a dangerous mission. About how he should have died before, and now he was on bonus time.

I’m not convinced folks can talk themselves into the mindset that may come from experiences like that. It’s old news, we’ve all heard it. But, most of us, seemingly, are unconvinced.

Coincidentally, NY Times had a front page article on this topic today:

https://archive.vn/MjADI

I've known quite a few guys who are hopelessly bad with women. You know the type, couldn't get a date in brothel. I'm pleased to say all the ones I'm still in contact with have figured things out by now, but all of them had one thing in common: they were miserable people, always complaining.

I can offer a piece of advice to men who think they are similar: do not ever talk to anyone about things you don't like. Just don't. Talk about things you do like. This is not to say you should be a pushover, but music you don't like does not need to mentioned really ever.

In my experience women tend more towards being realistic and possibly pessimistic. But for both sexes the best way to not be negative is to be ignorant. Ignorance is bliss. It's up to each individual to decide whether being ignorant is really a good life, though.

Is this advice in relation to dating and talking to women? If so, I’d agree. I can’t imagine most people want to hear endless complaints from their first few dates.

That said, not complaining ever won’t get you anywhere either. (Even in a relationship, complaining is important if you’re suffering) A lot of times, a lack of complaining and being unaware of solutions is what results in you living a shit life forever. Complaining can be incredibly productive and healthy - especially if you’re focused on solutions. Obviously, complaining that energy isn’t free or how the sun is going to swallow us whole isn’t super productive… but there are many things worth complaining about.

I wonder how capitalists feel about complainers.

Personally I like to think about this in terms of the reward asymmetry. In most situations if you’re cynical or pessimistic and you turn out to be right, you don’t really gain much. If you’re an optimist, and keep betting or grinding sensibly, you’ll eventually be right and there’s much to gain potentially.

I do think that effort over time makes a difference here, though. I remember this from an interview with Ruby Sales that stuck with me (I don't know the origin of the phrase, but this is where I heard it): https://pca.st/episode/2240f0ef-004f-45cc-9e77-0a10b9905530

  I love everybody.
  I love everybody in my heart.
  And you can't make me hate you.
  And you can't make me hate you.

I think of it less like "trying to be optimistic" as much as "making sure I pause long enough to see the optimistic thoughts that are there"

> Astonishingly, these are often people that have suffered overwhelming personal tragedy.

I remember once I got into a really nice conversation with a charming old guy in a coffee shop. He was markedly optimistic and he really left an impression on me. At the end of our conversation, I found out he was a Nazi death camp survivor.

i posit that the term optimism in its common usage conflates hope and delusion , hope being a subset of delusion that is consciously utilised in stimulating behaviour percieved to bring one closer to their goals , as opposed to a collapse of agency into pure fantasy disconnected from reality ... by demarcating these two concepts it is shown that optimism groups potentials both insidious and beautiful ... as usual, evidenciary of good and bad not being mutually exclusive ...

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