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Comment by saaaaaam | Hacker News Reader

I had this dishwasher in a rental property I was living in. The landlord fitted it a month or so after I moved in because the old dishwasher died.

I was very skeptical of a WiFi connected dishwasher.

Very quickly, I loved it.

It’s actually REALLY useful to be able to get a ping on my Apple watch that the dishwasher has finished.

Once upon a time I had a dishwasher where the door popped open when it was finished. That was good too.

But with the Bosch one I can do things like mute it (so it keeps washing but more quietly), or make custom programmes (spray harder on the bottom rack because I’ve been baking).

When I moved I bought my own. And then bought a matching smart washer dryer.

I was really really skeptical of internet connected appliances like this. I wouldn’t return to a dumb appliance.

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> It’s actually REALLY useful to be able to get a ping on my Apple watch that the dishwasher has finished.

Most dishwashers will play a tune or something, and I can't see why would I want another digitalized distraction in my life instead. But TBH I can't imagine why I would want to wear another portable digital distraction source on my wrist, so maybe I'm just old fashioned.

> Once upon a time I had a dishwasher where the door popped open when it was finished.

This and everything else does not require network connectivity. Only notification does. Plus maybe remote start (already have that with a "delay" on the panel of mine), some UI for statistics. Gimmicks, if you ask me.

Connectivity in devices would make sense for certain conveniences in a perfect world, where companies can be trusted to behave decently. In practice they will brick (on purpose or accident/hack), ransom it in one way or the other, demand sourcing consumables from them after the fact, sell your privacy who knows where.

> wear another portable digital distraction source on my wrist

Oh but why? Everyone around me had an apple watch, I was the odd one out. And I said to my self "no more!!!"

I bought a second-hand apple watch, I deleted all the garbage from it, I got a comfortable bracelet for it. Then I disabled Wifi/Bluetooth/Data. I got an Android phone, so connectivity is limited/shit anyway, but if you kill background processing, alerts, all transmissions, then the battery lasts forever!!!! (36hours tops). Now I am a cool moron like every other moron around me!

The only sound I kept is the 'chimes' (so if I am 'available') I drop and do 10 push-ups. That's the ONLY useful thing about this watch.

Do people who wear an Apple Watch think they are cool? I think that is maybe in the eye of the beholder, but if it makes you feel like a cool idiot that’s nice, but I don’t know anyone who got an Apple watch because it’s cool. If you want to be cool you’d have a proper watch that every single other person doesn’t have…

For example I got mine because it has a sim in it which means I can leave my phone at home and walk my dogs and dictate voice memos or make calls while I am out.

But if it makes you feel cool that’s great!

> If you want to be cool you’d have a proper watch that every single other person doesn’t have

That would be me. I like my mechanical watches. But it doesn't make me any more or less cool than majority of people around me with Apple Watches on. Nobody really notices or gives a crap.

Indeed. The whole "being cool from the devices you wear/carry" is very much about how it makes you feel, rather than any perception other people might have.

If I see someone wearing a Rolex I'm more likely to think "that's reckless" than "that's cool". And if I see someone wearing an Apple Watch - or any other gadget - I think "oh, an Apple Watch" and nothing else, or, at most, I think "I wonder what that gadget is, it's not something I've seen before".

I was once at a conference and there was a (notoriously 'flash' but very boring) guy literally juggling his Punkt phone, clearly desperate for someone to ask him what it was, so that he could tell them how much of a hipster he was.

No-one asked. After about 20 minutes of juggling it he quietly put it back in his bag and took his iPhone out of his pocket.

> I can't see why would I want another digitalized distraction in my life instead

Preach. I love my smart devices, but they need to be quiet and dumb on outside, smart on inside. Cars where screens and beeps can be turned off, microwaves without beeps, washers without bops and gyms without forced music.

I think Japan kinda gets it right tho their rice cookers have famously pleasant jingle once it's done cooking.

None of these features require the cloud (which was the actual complaint in the video, not just the wifi). All of them could be run locally. Unless you think it's important to get that notification on your wrist when you aren't home, then I still don't see why these features are _cloud_ features. And even then, basic functionality like running a rinse cycle (again: the example from the video) shouldn't require an app, local or otherwise.

Yes, smart features can be a great convenience, but they shouldn't come at the expense of basic functionality, and they should only use the cloud when actually required. Very, very rarely are these smart features inherently a cloud feature. Exceptions being things like the stated in the video case of things like cameras/other home security devices.

That's what they WANT. They want you to be just satisfied enough that you accept the lack of local control, the cloud-first approach that allows them control over the device you paid for (or in this case, the landlord paid for, and essentially made the decision for you).

Cloud-first hardware is trash, and should be illegal to sell. Cloud-optional is one thing, but it should always be possible to perform 100% of the capabilities of a piece of hardware that you buy, without some bullshit cloud or subscription.

I consider it to be a very "rapey" mindset on the part of these companies. They will get the data they want, or you'll get a worthless pile of plastic and metal that barely counts as a functional device.

I am willing to bet that these features you started relying on will stop working within five years.

I'd also make that but, but only at ten years. It's unlikely but possible that the manufacturer might actually keep the backend service running for 5-10 years without it failing from incompetence or doing a deliberate rug pull. But, I'd surely bet its gone in ten years.

This highlights the need for open standards or some sort of government escrow cloud.

Or a requirement that the devices don't need the cloud. It's a dishwasher. Why does it need to be online, other than to provide data for advertising and training models? You can live without being notified your dishes are done.

I can't say I see much appeal for dishwasher being online for myself, but some people live their lives differently.

Perhaps this is a shared dishwasher in student house where time is tight (applies to clothes washer). Perhaps you want to fire it when power is cheap. Perhaps you want it to start automatically when you left house. Finally - adjusting settings is easier via phone UI or voice.

It kinda lame so many people on HN, predominantly a startup forum, have so little imagination.

I agree a better labelling should be out there tho. Cloud-free, cloud-enabled, cloud-native, etc.

All of these use cases can be achieved without requiring a manufacturer-run Internet-connected cloud service.

I don't think this is a lack of imagination. Personally, I would love network-connected appliances that could be controlled and automated over my LAN. What I (and others) object to is the unnecessary round trip through the Internet to the manufacturer's server which will inevitably become the weakest link.

If there's any imagination problem, it's on the manufacturer who can't imagine a "smart" appliance that doesn't involve inserting themselves, via the Internet, in between the user and the appliance and (often) charging a monthly service fee for this misfeature.

“Normal” people have no idea how to make that work though. They just want an app on their phone and not to have to buy something or maintain something or check something.

We could all run our own mail servers and there’s a good reason we don’t.

Yes they are achievable, but UX from normal users POV is horrible nor it's something that most people want. If it's on my smartphone then it should also work anywhere in the world. User doesn't really car how it's achieved, but it needs to be bulletproof.

They shouldn't go away in fifty years. The manufacturer should have zero say in what your device can do after you buy it, especially such pedestrian features as a rinse cycle, which has been a standard built-in feature of dishwashers for decades. There is nothing about a rinse cycle that demands a tether to the manufacturer.

I really don't understand why these trash devices are so popular. Is the average person really clueless enough that they'll buy into all this shit just so they can use an app to control their shit? And if so, why is the carrot of extreme convenience enough for people to literally give up control of their hardware to the manufacturer?

I hope this shit get hacked ten ways to Sunday. Fuck these rent-seeking bastards. Hacking is the one true equalizer. Unlicensed bread indeed.

> It’s actually REALLY useful to be able to get a ping on my Apple watch that the dishwasher has finished.

It is a nice convenience, but it's trivially done with a power metering smart plug (using shelly here) that 100% locally shoves data to home assistant.

Almost any washer and dryer on the market now has an audible signal (some adjustable for pitch and volume) when the cycle is done, but if you need your phone or watch to be pinged then I guess that's a selling point for you.

I always miss the ding (it's in the basement and very quiet), I'd probably do fine if it simply kept beeping every few minutes, I'd eventually hear one. But just one, nah, not nearly enough.

So, I put a magnetic sensor on the door and made a circuit that starts beeping when the door has been closed for an hour.

Simple as that. Door open, machine not in use. Door closed for less than an hour, probably still running. After that, beep until I open the door. No need for anything networked, no subscription, no terms of service, just more beeping.

(Same with the microwave. There's never a reason to leave cooked food in the microwave with the door closed for a long time, so it dings every few minutes until I open the door. My old microwave didn't do this, but my new one does. It's so simple, why can't they all have this?)

It can be quite the convenience to have a alert which follows your current notification preference settings (e.g. if you're sleeping you don't want to hear the dryer just finished but maybe your SO who is awake does) and can be a quite ding or vibration rather than a buzzer loud enough to be heard across the entire house.

That said I'd much rather it be a simple local HomeKit integration instead of cloud only custom app BS.

My washer dryer lives in a utility room. And I’m pretty deaf.

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