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Comment by philwelch | Hacker News Reader

I think the main problem is that we live in an increasingly secular society, but nothing has actually replaced church. And the people who are still at church, at least at many churches, are right-wing nutjobs.

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Have you been to a Unitarian Universalist church? Definitely not right-wing.

I've also read about left-wing Catholics and Baptists (two cases where the main organization is generally seen as right-wing, but there are significant left-wing groups within them). I'm not a church-goer myself, so I don't have any suggestions on how to find a church you're comfortable with.

> Have you been to a Unitarian Universalist church?

No, and statistically, neither have practically any church-going Americans. Yes, I was talking about a generalization, I know there are liberal churches.

> I don't have any suggestions on how to find a church you're comfortable with.

For me personally, I don't think it's possible. I'm an atheist, and any church that's liberal enough to allow atheism frankly doesn't have enough verve to really hold my interest as a church, you know?

Depends on what you mean by verve, but I know some atheists who are perfectly happy with the Unitarian Universalist church they go to. Plenty of interesting people, a variety of social activities, a good place for their kids. They love it.

I know some other atheists who go to a weekly Buddhist meditation group and they are pretty involved with that community as well. I went by for a couple of sits and it seemed like a great place to meet people. They were all quite sincere and passionate about what brought them together. More so than in many Christian churches I've visited, where a lot of the people are more Christian-by-default than in any particularly thoughtful way.

I was raised Catholic. Without a heavy dose of serious ritual and theology, I can't take something calling itself a "church" very seriously. There has to be something more than a social club.

Paradoxically, I can't find my way through to agree with any kind of traditional Christian theology either, so I will remain unchurched.

Too bad there's not an American/Western equivalent to Confucianism. Some sort of deistic civic faith that is less about faith than it is about ritual, philosophy, and social relationships. That seems like something you might be interested in.

Some sort of deistic civic faith that is less about faith than it is about ritual, philosophy, and social relationships.

You're described the Unitarian church.

Not really. Confucianism is ingrained into Chinese society in ways the West can't comprehend. UU is a 19th century offshoot of NE Congregationalism.

Oh, I agree. I guess I'm riffing off of superficial similarities. I think some of the Founding Fathers would have tried to create an American civic religion akin to UU, however. (Not necessarily as a conscious decision, but they would have been more comfortable with such a creed in comparison to Puritanism or the sort of revivalism that led to the various Great Awakenings.)

What kind of rituals does the UU have?

From the perspective of a former Epsicopal turning Roman Catholic .. they don't have _any_.

I was raised Catholic. Without a heavy dose of serious ritual and theology, I can't take something calling itself a "church" very seriously. There has to be something more than a social club.

Freemasonry?

You might try a Zen center, then. They have plenty of ritual, and are very serious about what they do.

And I think that problem will continue for some time, since a replacement for church would require frequent socializing in a comfortable environment not aimed explicitly at socializing.

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