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Comment by cglan | Hacker News Reader

Popular or not, all this has taught me is that NYC, and with that most of America has no vision for any future. If after 10 years and millions in setup just to get congestion pricing in place, it falls thru because of the whims of a governor there’s just no hope for any more difficult capital projects.

Realistically, we’re never going to see any ambitious projects in my life time and it’s sad to see

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The problem is not NYC though. I think if NYC was left to its own devises its government could be much more visionary.

The problem is that so much of the control of NYC lies with state-level Democrats who are structurally incentived to prioritize the suburbs over the city because the suburbs are more likely to vote Republican in various races. This is exactly what happened here. Hochul -- working with the federal House minority leader Hakeem Jeffries -- paused congestion pricing to make it easier to win House seats in the suburbs. If they lose support in the city they don't care because the city districts are so safe.

Just like in 2016, republicans will never choose diet-coke over coke. The appealing to republican voter strategy has never worked when they can just vote for a republican. Not that it matters for the political consultant class, they can get higher fees the more mailers they can send out when they're losing talking about how the republicans are ruining America.

Don't take democratic politicians at their word, they only care about keeping their money flowing into their coffers.

These aren't core Republicans; they're the rare breed of never-Trumpers. People want to believe they don't exist, and they're mostly right: they pretty much only exist in suburbs surrounding Dem strongholds and in Utah. It may not be a viable national strategy (though they're probably to thank for Biden winning in 2020), but they definitely could flip local & state races, especially if the core Republicans went MAGA during the primary.

Agree completely that the Democrats (and Republicans) at the state level are an absolutely disaster. Albany has been a cesspool of corruption for much longer than any of us have been alive, but NYC is unfortunately just as bad. The City Council, the Mayor's office, NYCHA, the MTA and just about every other large organization that run NYC is just as corrupt as those in Albany.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/70-current-and-former-n...

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/20/nyregion/adams-fbi-corrup...

https://www.cityandstateny.com/politics/2017/08/the-worst-ne...

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-york-history-polit...

https://www.nytimes.com/news-event/albany-corruption-trials

I think also you will see Democrats even in blue states back off on any unpopular policies so it can’t be used as ammunition against Biden as they see a Trump victory as that catastrophic.

Which is why its time for NYC statehood. The interests aren't aligned. The city fills alls the coffers just to get fucked over again and again by shortsighted, spineless politicians.

Why should our greatest city be held back by the backwaters upstate?

The congestion tax is underwater in statewide polls. Its not like she's looking out for some special interest here, her constituents unfortunately just dont want the congestion tax.

The fact that the congestion tax is even being polled on upstate is a prime example of a failure in policymaking and proper devolution: suburbanites in Buffalo and Albany are not affected by the tax in any meaningful way, and should not have a disproportionate say in a policy that benefits millions of city residents.

(Of course, ironies abound besides this: funding NYC's mass transit is one of the most reliable ways to keep the city's tax revenues up, which prop up all of the financial misadventures and pork that upstate is fond of. Kneecapping the city's revenue streams hurts the suburban lifestyle and its financial assumptions in the long run.)

"suburbanites in Buffalo and Albany are not affected by the tax in any meaningful way, and should not have a disproportionate say in a policy that benefits millions of city residents."

But it says in the article itself and pretty much everything about this that "they want to try it in other places next". Are they not supposed to read or react to that part? Can you really blame them for trying to stop this at the point they have the most leverage?

I don’t think “other places” means Buffalo or Albany, probably ever (unless either develops a transit network as mature as NYC’s).

More realistically, suburbanites outside of Chicago, Philadelphia, etc. would have more to fear. But those people aren’t being polled.

Sorry. First, congestion tax in Manhattan, one of the most densely populated areas in the US. Up next, congestion tax in downtown Syracuse? Come on.

To be fair that’s pretty much how every tax starts and expands. A lot of us have a pretty big gut reaction to new taxes for something that used to be free for that reason.

I live in Minnesota where we basically don’t have toll roads and I’ve been incredulous about how people aren’t more upset about the ones they have in other states/countries when I’ve travelled, as one example.

This is, by definition, not a tax: if you don't want to pay a congestion toll for entering Manhattan's CBD by car, then don't enter the CBD by car.

In a car dependent city, this could be fairly argued to be a regressive or punitive toll, but NYC (and especially Manhattan) is not car dependent.

(And note: the "free" status quo exists only because the cost is hidden from you, i.e. the potential car driver into the CBD: you don't pay for the air and noise pollution, emergency service delays, deferred maintenance on mass transit, etc. that residents do. Factor those in, and free transit through one of the densest and most expensive cities in the world is a pretty gross subsidy.

Why should they be upset? Roads cost money to build, the land they're on has value, and the users should pay for all of that. Free roads are basically communism.

Because you already pay a gas tax (granted, not for electric vehicles) - and because those tolls are almost always way more than required for the building and maintenance of the road.

> Can you really blame them for trying to stop this at the point they have the most leverage?

Absolutely I can, yes. They can vote against it when it applies where they live, when it doesn’t it shouldn’t be any of their business. But hey, New York politics is extremely dumb.

> The congestion tax is underwater in statewide polls.

If you poll upstate, they think NYC is a drag on the state economy and tell you how horrible it is that "all our tax money" goes to the city. The actual situation is the opposite, though.

Polling the entire state on congestion charges is like asking Ted Cruz for Hurricane Sandy money; little reason to actually care about the right decision.

I think most of them would like to see NYC razed to the ground to be honest when I’ve had to work in the area as field support just chatting with the locals. It’s much the same as with Chicago in Illinois.

Pretty much. Most people in states with one big city would be happy to watch it burn. It's a common joke here in Georgia that "That lazy-ass Sherman didn't do a good enough job because Atlanta's still there."

Thats democracy baby

You should have given up on difficult capital projects after seeing the results of the second avenue subway and the oculus.

The insanely high cost of building relatively modest things precludes entirely building ambitious things. Not even the federal government has that kind of money.

Yes, the sad reality is that the US is non-investable, specially for foreigners. Any project can be cancelled at the whim of somebody somewhere in the political structure, and what has been accorded in one administration can be easily canceled in the next. It is nowhere's land when it comes to investing.

Man I was just lurking but this take is so wrong I just have to comment. It’s in fact the exact opposite. Every other country in the world is much much worse at this. Look at China! They’re actually destroying companies left and right. You should qualify your statement with “public projects” which do not have any foreign investment. The US is very friendly to foreign private projects, almost too friendly arguably. It also has public reliable information and rules for investing which make price discovery much easier than other foreign markets. It’s probably one of the most lenient and best markets for external investment.

"U.S. Remains World's Top Destination for Foreign Direct Investment for 12th Consecutive Year"

https://www.commerce.gov/news/blog/2024/04/us-remains-worlds...

Truly why invest in anything real when everyone in power is there to make stock market go up eternally... Or federal bonds. Which will be flipped over for reasonable profit until they are not anymore, but even that is unlikely to be fully sudden.

Counterpoint: Chicago parking meters

US is #1 in foreign investment: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/top-countries-foreign-di...

And no one invests in individual public projects anywhere.

No different than the president issuing executive actions to stop or make a law.

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