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Comment by labrador | Hacker News Reader

> “In the context of social media platforms used by nearly half of Americans, it’s not hard to imagine how a platform that facilitates so much commerce, political discourse, and social debate could be covertly manipulated to serve the goals of an authoritarian regime, one with a long track record of censorship, transnational repression, and promotion of disinformation.”

Mark Warner (D-VA), Senate Intelligence Committee Chair

That's the crux of it for me. Not protecting the data of Americans.

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Mark Warner has gotten $343,211 from AIPAC. He cares about placating Israel, not protecting our data. If you can find a politician who says this but doesn't take money from AIPAC, I might be a little more convinced.

Maybe they have evidence that much of the pro-Palestian content on TikTok is stoked by Chinese bot accounts

I guess we'll find out. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the collapse in Palestinian support once ByteDance no longer runs TikTok.

It'd be nice if Gen Z became less anti-American. America deserved it in the Vietnam war. Now, not so much.

If wanting better conditions in the US is something Gen-Z wants, that does not make them anti-American. Criticism of our government and corporations is one of the most pro-American action one can be.

They want an America that is humane and cares for its citizens. Good for them. Anything less makes for a subhuman individual.

I get the impression it's less about constructive criticism and more about hating America by the scenes of young protestors in America burning the flag of the United States. Both the left and the right should be mindful of not becoming traitors giving comfort to enemies that would like to destroy our goverment and make America their colony.

Burning the American flag does not make for a traitor. It makes for an individual expressing the greatest right we have — freedom of speech.

Suppressing freedom of speech is the most anti-American stance one could take.

I don't give a shit about flags but as a veteran it still pains me. I think flag burners like Koran burners just like causing pain.

This is supposed to get everyone's attention. Symbilolicly it represents the betrayal the protester feels from the government. Sadly, too many people are desensitized to this. I guess if the only thing that will get real attention is burning yourself in protest, then there will be fewer protesters and the government and corporations can continue doing whatever they want.

As a veteran have you considered that you have a mental blindspot caused by your military training?

As a flag burner have you considered you've fallen for propaganda that seeks to divide the nation rather than fix it's problems?

There's literally nothing wrong with being happy to be an American despite it's flaws

Rather be a happy human than a happy <insert warring tribe here>.

I guess my point is: it seems like a lot of people believe China is subtly manipulating public opinion via TikTok, but I think it's more likely that these feelings are just organic and they surface in TikTok because people agree with them.

Gen Z is the future of the US and I'm glad for it. The kids are alright. They want better conditions and a better future for themselves and others. This isn't anti-American at all.

I think ignorance like this is the true source of many problems in the US. Maybe its a side effect of our individualistic culture to not consider what another group might be going through?

>It'd be nice if Gen Z became less anti-American.

It'd be nice if Gen Z wouldn't have to graduate with a ton of college debt into a post pandemic job market that now treats their newly minted CS degrees as worth less per day

It'd be nice if Gen Z could have a viable pathway to live in an area with the remaining good jobs and be able to buy a home to start a family

>America deserved it in the Vietnam war. Now, not so much.

You sure about that?

I came of age in the 70's with the fallout from the Mai Lai Massacre, oil embargoes, 16% inflation, high unemployment, New York City going bankrupt (Gerald Ford to NYC: Drop Dead). That's why I joined the military. It never occured to me to become anti-American. Other countries weren't doing so hot either. What does blaming "America" for my problems get me? "America" is not responisble for the pandemic or greedy colleges that prey on vulnerable high school students who want to get ahead. We need new laws to fix these problems, which means electing politicians who will fix these problems.

You forgot Iraq?

I don't recall a lot of violent protests against the war in Iraq after the initial protests. It seems young people lost interest. They certainly care very little for the vets that return broken.

Forgetting the 99 WTO protests? going into the 00s there were scores of cancellations and career ending events during the early years of the Iraq war. Remember Bill Maher, the dixie chicks etc.?

Also consider, it was more difficult to organize due to lack of ubiquitous broadband and tooling. Now with the democratization of information and tooling to organize protests (things like Slack, Discord, Google Docs sharing features all running on a super computer in everyones pocket) it has grown in scope.

Finally Gen Y and Gen Z took different paths. Gen Y graduated into the new great depression, got duped by Obama's Hope and Change, and then when they finally got back on track headed right into the post-pandemic economy. GenZ never had any illusions given what they saw their older siblings go through.

If merely accepting donations invalidates a politicians ability to have their own views then I suppose no politician legitimately cares about anything (perhaps that’s true, but I wouldn’t bet on it).

Its accepting donations from PACs and corporations. This is outlawed elsewhere as "bribes". If the politician goes against what the donor says they get nothing the next time around at the best(so now they needs to raise money elsewhere) and at the worst the donor funds their opponent.

There are a handful of politicians that refuse to take any corporate PAC money (The Squad, Sanders etc.) instead electing to only take small dollar donations from regular people. Its reasonable that you will take money from the people you are elected to serve, not corporations and superpacs. There have been attempts to just get money out of politics altogether and instead introduce a general fund from taxes to pay out the expenses of running for office while banning all other forms of donations. That would be the best because it gives even small time people a chance.

How does this invalidate the argument Warner is making?

What are you talking about? The last Israeli social networking company that made it big was Mirabilis (ICQ).

I care about animals but eat meat. We are fun beings with many idiosyncrasies.

One person's "idiosyncrasies" are another person's hypocrisies and biases.

And that's what this TikTok bill feels like to me. The fact that it's called the TikTok bill should be embarrassing to every politician involved.

Just be honest and call it The We-Don't-Like-China-Except-For-The-Times-We-Do Bill.

I don't live in an important state and if Biden signs this thing I'll probably just abstain during the November elections.

> The fact that it's called the TikTok bill should be embarrassing to every politician involved.

The official name is "Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act".

It's hard to tell whether you're being intentionally obtuse or are just naturally pedantic, but look at the headline in every news article (including this one on HN).

No reasonable person in the US knows this as anything but The TikTok Bill.

That's the fault of the media, not the government.

Can you say "Obamacare"? This is totally about the media/propaganda.

I don’t see how this is about the media.

Can you list the companies that will need to divest as a result of this bill passing?

No, I feel OK blaming the people voting for the TikTok Bill.

If America truly wanted to protect the data of Americans, shouldn’t they instead have passed a law granting that data some protection?

Lawmakers unveil sprawling plan to expand online privacy protections

After years of contentious debate, the bipartisan measure marks a significant step toward passing a landmark federal privacy law

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/04/07/congres...

Bit of discussion (on CNN article) here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39980232

The point GP was making is not about protecting the data going out, but rather protecting against the influence coming in

It's reciprocal since the CCP has the similar policy towards Western social media

Protecting against speech is fundamentally anti-American.

There were media controls during WW2, free speech is not absolute, especially when at war

I hear that argument, but I also hear the "the government shouldn't tell you which apps you can or can't install" argument.

I'm confused - are we talking about America here? I thought ByteDance was Chinese?

I think the idea is “Better the devil you know than the devil you don't” as reason to want to be owned by an American company or banned outright

> an authoritarian regime, one with a long track record of censorship, transnational repression, and promotion of disinformation

So…the US government then?

Can you explain in what way the US is authoritarian? I don't feel it on a personal level at all. I mean, the dept of motor vehicles is pretty strict, but other than that...

I guess you are not a tiktok user...

Try starting a business that has anything to do with the financial system.

How is strong financial regulation authoritarianism?

But you get to keep your money in America if you start a successful business. You don't see billionaires getting crushed like Jack Ma in China or the oligarchs in Russia, although I wouldn't mind a little of that in America to be honest

Americans are knowingly giving up that data.

The only thing they are afraid of is being exposed. Simply exposing the vast weaknesses of the ruling elite in the country is has a stronger effect than what most people consider to be overtly propaganda.

Senator Pete Ricketts explains why the government wants to ban TikTok: "Pro-Palestinian and Hamas videos on TikTok have more reach than the top 10 US news websites combined."

Sen. Mark Warner has uncovered that "all 20" major tech companies are colluding to silence content that challenges government-approved stories about election "misinformation" and "disinformation."

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