Senate passes TikTok ban bill, sending it to President Biden's desk
theverge.com
theverge.com
Banning (if you can call it that? Divesting?) a single product like this is a strange move. It’s using a shovel to clear the early crumbs of an avalanche.
I don’t think this is the right move. Yes, it threatens the monopolies that companies like Facebook have established. And let’s assume that Haidt is right and social media and the surrounding ecosystem is a cesspool of negativity being lunged at the youth. I still think that it’s in a way petulant and reactive to pass a bill for this. A foreign country is not responsible for our leaders having failed to nurture us into sensible adults who do not fall prey to these dark patterns and tactics. I will refrain from the angle that our leaders intentionally did not want us to be critical, independent thinkers to further their own agendas by treating us like lepers.
Care to elaborate your point? I tried to understand what point you tried to make,but it heavily contrasts with reality.
Yeah. The content there is already crossposted from TikTok anyway, now it will just be created there by default. Zero functional difference. Plus the YouTube Shorts algorithm has gotten a lot less overtly awful in the last year.
Is there something I’m doing wrong? Because mine is still very very bad. It seems to ignore my actual channel subscriptions and usual viewing habits entirely.
Mark Warner (D-VA), Senate Intelligence Committee Chair
That's the crux of it for me. Not protecting the data of Americans.
They want an America that is humane and cares for its citizens. Good for them. Anything less makes for a subhuman individual.
Suppressing freedom of speech is the most anti-American stance one could take.
There's literally nothing wrong with being happy to be an American despite it's flaws
Also consider, it was more difficult to organize due to lack of ubiquitous broadband and tooling. Now with the democratization of information and tooling to organize protests (things like Slack, Discord, Google Docs sharing features all running on a super computer in everyones pocket) it has grown in scope.
Finally Gen Y and Gen Z took different paths. Gen Y graduated into the new great depression, got duped by Obama's Hope and Change, and then when they finally got back on track headed right into the post-pandemic economy. GenZ never had any illusions given what they saw their older siblings go through.
>It'd be nice if Gen Z became less anti-American.
It'd be nice if Gen Z wouldn't have to graduate with a ton of college debt into a post pandemic job market that now treats their newly minted CS degrees as worth less per day
It'd be nice if Gen Z could have a viable pathway to live in an area with the remaining good jobs and be able to buy a home to start a family
>America deserved it in the Vietnam war. Now, not so much.
You sure about that?
And that's what this TikTok bill feels like to me. The fact that it's called the TikTok bill should be embarrassing to every politician involved.
Just be honest and call it The We-Don't-Like-China-Except-For-The-Times-We-Do Bill.
I don't live in an important state and if Biden signs this thing I'll probably just abstain during the November elections.
The official name is "Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act".
No reasonable person in the US knows this as anything but The TikTok Bill.
Can you list the companies that will need to divest as a result of this bill passing?
There are a handful of politicians that refuse to take any corporate PAC money (The Squad, Sanders etc.) instead electing to only take small dollar donations from regular people. Its reasonable that you will take money from the people you are elected to serve, not corporations and superpacs. There have been attempts to just get money out of politics altogether and instead introduce a general fund from taxes to pay out the expenses of running for office while banning all other forms of donations. That would be the best because it gives even small time people a chance.
So…the US government then?
It's reciprocal since the CCP has the similar policy towards Western social media
After years of contentious debate, the bipartisan measure marks a significant step toward passing a landmark federal privacy law
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/04/07/congres...
Bit of discussion (on CNN article) here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39980232
The bill isn't a criticism of TikTok's operation, its a criticism on its ownership and how that ownership + influence creates an exploit that poses a threat to NatSec.
This kind of reactionary framing feels like an attempt to put Facebook and TikTok on a level playing field, but the premise of the bill is about tech ownership and influence by companies of or from a foreign adversary.
Facebook is a US company. What am I missing here?
Criticism of the US Govt is a favorite pastime, from anti-Capitalist humanist socialists like myself to the far right white supremacists.
I’m sure now that I’ve said that, the FBI and DIA will be making a visit, right?
The issue of free speech in America is that anything is allowed, until it starts forcing the hand of the elite in some way.
So far mostly true if you are in the UK. Search YouTube for "uk police visit social media post"
* This legislation won't lose Biden the election, banning abortion by an insurrectionist will win it
* We are in a country that needs people to work together to be a successful country - we are big and highly populated democracy
* Rugged individualism - "me first" - is easily attacked by influencers, subject to divide-and-conquer techniques. From marketing to foreign influence, it is a weakness.
* Healthcare (even as expensive as it still is), reproductive rights, free ability to vote, and ability to have civil-war-free existence in our lifetimes are contingent on a healthily functioning government.
* To support OUR STATE we must find a middle ground of unity. We must recognize the forces that divide us. We must choose the path to that maintains our ever-evolving sense of personal "freedom". We must be good citizens.
How are you defining an enemy, and why does it matter whether they're a state or not? There are several domestic entities (governmental and non) that I would consider much bigger threats to me and the people I care about than the PRC government.
And if you're not willing to let people read/watch widely and make up their own minds, what good is being a "democracy" or even an independent state at all? If I wanted to only watch state-approved media then I'd move to China.
Good news, looks like for now you can watch China-approved media without leaving your own country;)
We can address multiple threats at once, and are not compelled to address them in priority order. Any improvement is good.
> if you're not willing to let people read/watch widely and make up their own minds
This seems a very weak argument. Of course nobody wants to make it illegal to see propaganda. But if you think propaganda doesn't work, then I've got a bridge to sell you. Yes, there are lots of kinds and sources and degrees of propaganda, from every side. But it exists on a spectrum - and when it's being controlled by one country, covertly, for the consumption of another country, with whom you have a tense military standoff, then it's a little more insidious than the "let the people decide!" stance you're advocating.
Not necessarily. A balance of power can be better for us regular folks at the bottom. Frankly I feel safer in a world where there's at least some non-US social media than a world where people who run the US run everything and no-one can call them out.
> Of course nobody wants to make it illegal to see propaganda.
Then what exactly is this bill aiming for?
Russia, China, and Iran are at war with the West, the West has not acknowledged it widely yet
Maybe. Or maybe the US would find some excuse to ban them too. Or the same one - remember the US considers it appropriate to spy on and read the emails of the German chancellor. Conveniently, there isn't any major European social media to compare to.
That's not the issue, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
It's not the non-US source, it's the governmental control for specific purposes
> Then what exactly is this bill aiming for?
Not making it illegal to see- just not making it easy for china to do covertly on a broad scale.
> It's not the non-US source, it's the governmental control for specific purposes
Perhaps. Or perhaps it's the US that's being disingenuous, and the real issue is that TikTok threatens what's otherwise a total US dominance of social media. (And note that the national security letter system means that the US has a similar level of governmental control)
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/global-manufacturing-scor...
The difference is largely in the products produced, for example, no one is building anything close to the F-35, which is a significant export for the US.
> America is a manufacturing superpower: Of the 22 manufacturing categories tracked by the U.N., the U.S. ranked first in six categories and second in 13 others, underscoring the breadth and competitiveness of American manufacturing. In only three sectors—apparel, motor vehicles and leather—did the U.S. fail to rank either first or second.
From: https://www.barrons.com/articles/china-manufacturing-semicon...
If we move beyond the US vs China to the West vs Authoritarians, the comparison becomes dominating
Because Americans have been foolish and short sighted.
So then they're presented with a choice: continue making the mistake or take the difficult steps to attempt to correct it.
And frankly, attempting to not "socialize accountability" and instead pin the blame on some othered corporations would have the effect of fostering a helpless outlook in the face of those corporations.
IMHO, the way forward is to realize the collective mistake and fuck those corporations good and hard as part of the correction (e.g. lets make an example of Apple).
No it won’t. Firstly because the hammer won’t fall until months after the election, and secondly it’d be hard for China-hawk Trump who attempted the same thing during his presidency to take a pro-China position, but finally and most importantly because TikTok is disproportionately popular with young voters who are terrible at actually voting. Plus the move is popular with older likely voters.
I get $5/gal gasoline being a bummer (not that I would notice since I have an EV), but where do you live where eggs cost $8 a carton? I can get 18 for < $5, that's like a cart 1.5. Or do you mean at the organic health food place, and they are handled via soft gloves or something?
Seriously, I wonder if Trump supporters are just making bad buying decision and then blaming Bidenomics for it?
When I lived in Switzerland, I had a lot of price shocks to go through, but my stipend was pretty high so I guess it made sense (more money, more expensive eggs). The recent inflation has been kind of like that (but my earnings went up a lot at the same time, maybe that's not usual?).
People don't seem to realize that, although Biden hasn't helped reduce inflection, Trump and those before him all the way back to Clinton (exclusive) all poured gasoline that fueled this inflation fire.
I wish we could run the economy more like adults, not calling for a Fed ouster when they only cut rates by .25 during what the president at the time was calling the best economy ever.
Yeah people like me who have been buying the same food for the last ten years just happened to buy new items at the same time inflation started.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/202...
Please vote.
TikTok's buyer does not have to be American. If TikTok were a Canadian, British, French, German, Korean, Japanese, or Taiwanese company, the US government wouldn't have intervened in the first place.
Conversely, if TikTok were a Canadian, British, French, German, Korean, Japanese, or Taiwanese company, American would not have to fear a hostile government silently gathering data on American users, or a company repeatedly shown to be lying about using its app to do so.
^1 And boy, do Democrats who shouted Orange Man Bad back then now wish they had supported the move
- Biden will sign the bill (>95%)
- The Commerce Secretary will start the 12 month clock (>95%)
- TikTok will challenge the ruling (>95%), which may delay the clock starting to delist or divest, but they are unlikely to win (20%)
- And if they lose, they will succeed in selling to a US company (75%)
- The sale will be for $30-50B (CI 50%), assuming it does not include certain ByteDance IP
- Walmart and Oracle won’t compete to buy it this time. Microsoft or Amazon are the top contenders, along with a consortium led by Susquehanna or Steven Mnuchin, possibly in partnership with Snap or X.
Will it start to lean towards the nonsense we are seeing with Meta platforms? (Limiting Pro-Palestinian voices, boosting Pro-Israel content).