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Comment by karaterobot | Hacker News Reader

I just checked the Screen Time statistics, and my average daily screen time last week was 18 minutes, the week before that was 22 minutes. I've never been in danger of becoming addicted to smart phones, just like I've never been in danger of being addicted to alcohol or gambling: none of them really appeal to me that much. But there are plenty of things I know I am addicted to, and I'm pretty sure the way to treat that addiction is to address the underlying issue for which the addiction is a response or a coping mechanism. Not to buy something and then pat yourself on the back. I very strongly doubt that just buying a flip phone is going to fix it; sorry folks (seriously).

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This ignores the fact that many of the apps people use are designed and A/B tested to maximize time spent/wasted. The fact that it happens to not work on you does not mean it works for everyone.

Sometimes an addiction really is because something is designed to be incredibly addictive, not because of some underlying psychological issue with the user.

Uninstalling the apps is a good first step.

The problem is that most of these apps have good and bad stuff on them. I get a lot of value out of high quality content on youtube, but I also have to try really hard to not get sucked into watching an endless stream of garbage youtube shorts.

Also even if you delete the apps, most people are in social groups with people who still use them and send links to content on them. It’s hard to avoid them entirely.

It's pure gaslighting 'it isn't the drug that's addictive, it's the user that has issues' lol no sweetie

Hardly 'pure gaslighting'. Both can be true. The user is a part of the equation.

The user is more likely to turn to a drug or their phone if they find their life unsatisfying but that doesn't alter the fact that the drug/phone can be far more stimulating than any experience they'd encounter 'organically'

That's the issue; the real world can only offer up so much so fast. Drugs and the scroll can offer it faster. Expecting people to turn away from that even when it's visibly harming them isn't reasonable; we know for a fact it doesn't happen, people overdose on fentanyl and then immediately go back to buy more.

I think we agree that things are addictive. Perhaps we disagree on the practical approach to resolving that. You aren't going to rid the world of fentanyl or cell phones. So now what?

The physical world is hard to manipulate; the digital one less resistant to legislation.

India banned TikTok by legislation and made it stick. Rule that social media properties are either dangerously addictive or enemy cyberweapons and ban them.

> the way to treat that addiction is to address the underlying issue

Given that a very very large number of people are _visibly_ addicted to their phones, what would that look like, what action would you propose, what resources would be deployable?

Are you saying that a majority of the population have an 'underlying issue' that needs to be addressed? What is that issue?

There are many making money using manipulation and I certainly don't condone that. Hopefully we can push for regulations where it makes sense.

Even still there will always be obstacles in life to overcome. CBT has been helpful for many so it may be a place to start. CBT can help one understand the underlying issue and replace the vice with a healthier coping mechanism.

I think this focus on their being an 'underlying issue' is problematic; many times there is no underlying issue, these are just normal humans with normal brains being totally normally affected by a product that's designed to be addictive. They don't need therapy because there's nothing wrong with them, in fact if there was something wrong with them they'd be less likely to become addicted. They just need to remove themselves from the influence of the addictive substance i.e. put the phone down, socialise normally and build strong bonds with their family and their local community.

People by and large don't need therapy and to pathologise and dwell on nonexistent issues, they really just need to hang out more with other people and realise that what they're seeing online isn't representative of reality.

It sounds to me that we are in agreement on outcome, only that you feel that everyone can get there on their own. In fact you're almost describing CBT without naming it.

I guess my main issue with CBT is seeing it mentioned so many times on reddit, and reddit is such a pathological place that I've come to feel anything mentioned there must be some sort of scam or trick.

That's really it lol

The issues can be as varied as the individuals.

I think one action is this, talking about it, raising awareness. To some it might be obvious that being glued to a tiny screen to the point that you need to constantly look at it while you're driving is a problem, but in some circles it's normalized.

I have seen a number of motorcycle delivery drivers in the city in which I live who have _two_ phones on holders on their scooters - one for the delivery app, one for tiktok. They jam up the traffic lights because they don't notice when the lights go green because they're literally glued to the tok. It's genuinely disturbing.

I'm a fairly calm person and not many things produce anger in me, but seeing someone on their phone while driving is one of the few things that make me rage.

The topic that interests me more is the effect on the general population of addictive apps so if you're going to one-track this onto your pet peeve I'm gonna peace out; it's pretty obvious that using the phone while driving is a bad idea, there's just not a lot left to say on the topic, it's all been said... more interested in discussing a new and vibrant topic than something that's been literally done to death, I mean, people were probably ranting about cellphone drivers on usenet in 1995...

I don’t think smartphones are your problem.

I don't have a problem, I'm just unsure as to why that conversation went the way it did; we're talking about addictive apps and all of a sudden the topic is phone use while driving? Okay I guess but... what conversation are we really having here and why? Odd.

I mean I just expressed agreement with a sentiment that you posed, you brought up texting and driving? What a weird person.

> To some it might be obvious that being glued to a tiny screen to the point that you need to constantly look at it while you're driving is a problem

These are your words. You raised the topic of driving in response to my comment which didn't mention driving.

me:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39256964

your reply:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39258323

What a weird interaction this is. Are you misreading the thread?

How do you get to the underlying issues?

An addiction is a layer of defense. It keeps you distracted from those underlying issues. If you remove part of it, you're not "fixing the problem and patting yourself on the back", you're getting a break from it in order to better look at those underlying issues from a distance.

I spend longer than that just responding to people's messages. Do you use something else for messaging?

Sure but I have a machine with 18 inches of my person basically 24/7.

My phone won't tell you crap.

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