A practical guide to quitting your smartphone
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
We've tried smartphones out for the past... oh, decade and change. They've been around longer, but were niche enough that they didn't dominate society, and even around the start of the iPhone era, "Crackberry" and such were common enough terms (with "Put all your devices in the center, whoever picks theirs up first buys the next round" being a fun game to play in certain company).
The results are solidly in: They're an utter disaster for most people, and for society at large. In no particular order, they ruin social interactions in public situations (think "talking to people in the grocery line" - though I've seen fewer people on their phones lately and can get some conversations going), they're utterly toxic for teenagers (especially teenage girls - studies vary on just how bad it is, but "awful" is a good start), and on through the ages.
I think it's important for the "techie sorts" to very actively reject that which smartphones (and most of consumer tech, really...) has become, and that's one reason I carry a flip phone instead of a defanged smartphone - it's visually different and stands out as a "... wait, you carry one of those?" conversation starter.
I've been trying very hard to get back to an offline-first life. And dumping the smartphone is a key step there.
I DONT WANT TO TALK to people in grocery line, especially when I don't have a phone. I perfectly ok to just stand quietly.
> they're utterly toxic for teenagers
sometimes, and still we have to be sure that its a phone and not society.
I do! My day is almost always made better by a random encounter with a stranger. I wish I was confident enough to start those interactions myself, but I always inevitably think back to messages such as yours, and my anxiety gets the better of me.
Having kids helps inasmuch as my eldest will talk to every kid she sees and that usually means at least a hello to the parent.
Funny enough I was at a playground a few weeks ago and my kids envied another kid's sled, they talked and the other kid was happy to share, and I talked to the dad who had also moved here from Ireland and even had similar interests (Green party member, etc.). Sure, usually it's a pleasant hello and then not much, but sometimes you meet people you get on with really well. I don't think that would have happened if I had just been sitting on the bench looking at my phone while my kids played.
> most of my chance interactions lately come from talking to other parents while my kids play in the street or playground.
I think there's a signal here that's the difference. If I'm on a bus, I probably don't want to talk to anyone. Similarly, if I'm in a grocery store, I don't want to talk to someone in the baking aisle, I just want sugar. But if I'm out with my kid/dog, I know that's an inherently more sociable situation that may end in an interaction.
> Sure, usually it's a pleasant hello and then not much, but sometimes you meet people you get on with really well.
I've a dog and live in Edinburgh, I've found that the people I get on with are people I see repeatedly. Neither of us made the effort the first time, but after 2 weeks of seeing each other every morning at 8:30 in the rain and the dogs saying hello to each other, you can end up talking. I immediately have more in common with this person than going to the same destination as them, for example!
Of course people were reading, and/or wearing headphones (mostly younger people), but not all of them. And many were open to conversation even though. Sometimes you read a book to pass the time, but you can be as well interested to a random exchange with a stranger. I was also reading in the train and often wearing headphones, but that didn't prevent conversations from happening. I think that people were less taking book-or-headphones as a signal that you don't want to be disturbed. The experience could also be relatively different depending on what the train population is (e.g. whether the train is filled with tired commuting people or with people coming back from a week-end break).
I'm not taking the train as much recently, but people are clearly more isolated into their smartphones now. And have to say, sometimes discussions still do happen.
I do agree that the last point is true - but see OP's message. I don't want to talk to you in the grocery store. If I'm standing there with Earbuds in, and you make Smalltalk with me, don't be surprised if I totally blank you or seen confused.
By the way, pubs aren't one of those really, as they're too unstructured.
> pubs aren't one of those really, as they're too unstructured.
I'm not sure what you mean by "third spaces", then.
It's more than the past 3 years. People really started coming unhinged in late 2016, by my observations. But the trend has been increasing for a while, and I'm willing to point a pretty sharp finger at the various social media, news, etc companies who are enabled in their "pour liquid oxygen on the fires of division for stoking outrage in the pursuit of more ad views" by things like the smart phone - because now someone is connected 24/7, by default.
Host firepit nights and invite people. I've yet to find a better solution to getting good actual conversations going than to have regular firepit nights (right now, I have one a week, and would like to get another few per month going this summer with different groups of people). Yes, some people will look at you like you're nuts, and others will turn into solid friends.
Fundamentally, I don't think we're going to fix the problems of smartphones and consumer tech (in the general "surveillance capitalism" sense) with more of that stuff.
But i suspect there is much more and many people are not like that. It should be richer and not so monotone.
Are we really at that level of discussion ? Smartphones, and the web, clearly have a magnifying effect on many topics which are detrimental in a lot of cases
Human nature didn't magically change in 2007 when god emperor Steve Jobs shat out the first smartphone
Its always the simplest way to forbid something, but I think we have to be more caution with easy ways.
"it's just a tool" is level 0 of argumentation. What is the tool used for ? What are the people in control of said tool getting from it ? Who's benefiting for it ? Who's getting abused by it ? &c. We can collectively make decision about things, we've done it on thousands of different subject for thousands of years, history didn't stop in 2007
Look, if you just want to win this discussion then please imagine that I agree with you, that my comment is "oh, Im so wrong and you so right" and go fight in comments with someone else.
I’d think of giving up my smartphone, but that’d mean I’d not be able to use WhatsApp to communicate with family and friends that are on it. Heck the parents group at my kids school is on WhatsApp. I’m not going to make everyone switch to “this other special” app. I gotta be where others are in this context.
Another is Maps - it is modern convenience that is hard to live without. Not only do I get turn-by-turn navigation, but I can quickly check whether the shop I want to go to is open or not. No, a Garmin device on a car doesn’t really solve that elegantly.
Thirdly, majority of my actions are on a web browser and it often happens when I’m mobile. Sure, I could remember things and then find them when I’m at my desk - yeah, I’m not going to remember that..
Fourth - my phone is my camera. I have pictures of my family memories, daily utility stuff.. even quickly taking a picture of a design I see somewhere as inspiration to stash it in my Notes. I can’t imagine giving up that convenience.
I’m however conscious of the bad effects of having the social drug on my hands. I don’t have Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Snapchat, TikTok, games or the like Apps on my phone. My battery usage report says 70% of the time was spent on web browser, and my mini iPhone lasts 1.5 days on a full charge.
whatsapp works great in the browser on a laptop. if you only have a dumbphone you can use your number to register the whatsapp "app" on any tablet and can then log in on any other browser you want to use it on. works super nice.
- installed the whatsapp "app" on my crappy old android tablet that i hardly ever use
- used SMS to my dumbphone to link the installed app to my phone number
- opened "web.whatsapp.com" on my laptop browser
- scanned the QR code in the android app to link the browser session to my account
i have been using web.whatsapp.com on laptop for long time - pretty sure it's 3-4 years at this stage. maybe i am wrong on that.
i also find the browser/laptop whatsapp much nicer to use - copying/pasting etc. is so much easier than a smartphone, for me at least.
I had used WhatsApp in the browser on a desktop some years ago, at web.whatsapp.com, but when I tried the same site recently from a mobile browser, it redirected me to plain whatsapp.com, and asked me to install the mobile app. I guess that was because it detected that my browser was on a mobile phone, by the user agent header.
But as someone who has never really had a problem with my smartphone, taking photos of a map and trying to pan around on a dumb phone sounds like pure torture. I can’t imagine it working well for any of the locations I actually need to pull up a map for, which are almost exclusively far away and require long sets of directions.
Though your point about the phone/map telling you if the shop is open or not is a pretty strong advantage
In 2022 I did a year long stint on a Nokia 110 4G and I carried a Canon PowerShot G7X Mark 3 around. It's a one inch sensor compact camera that fit my pocket just as well as my smartphone did (and since there's nothing to do but make phone calls and text with a super shitty UX that phone lived in my backpack). The UX for a camera is more annoying depending on how and why you take pictures. It does force you to be a little more mindful and focused on what you're doing though.
My smartphone functions as a watch, notetaking device, and communication device. I rarely get lost now that I almost always have a map. It is a music device, which is really helpful considering I walk and take busses for most of my transportation.
The sole reason I've not had to carry around a wordbook is because I have a translation app on my phone.
It is much easier to choose to not carry a purse or bag, which sometimes makes me safer.
Not to mention that I have internet on my phone, which is better than phone books ever were. Looking stuff up saves money and time if you use it correctly.
You shouldn't expect folks to talk to you at the grocery store: That wasn't exactly a universal thing everywhere. Seems like this is just you missing something that others don't - and not everyone needs this stuff to fill their social interaction quotas.
Yet, many apps on it are addictive, that i would prefer not to be. Those things I don't want in my life, just like access to drugs. But it is tough, as these apps are mostly connected with other people, friends mostly... and i want that too.
It sounds like your phone is preventing you from the very normal human interactions that made society pleasant.
There’s no amount of asserting that others are uninteresting that can convince me that a society is better when strangers only interact transactionally.
I'll add that not everyone needs to learn a language to make use of wordbooks and translation apps. Vacations exist. Temporary work assignments exist, the sort of which are much shorter than the time it would take to learn a language to even an intermediate level. Heck, my required language classes lasted 2 years at 18 hours a week of classroom time, which is definitely longer than work assignments.
And no, forced pleasantries at a gas station doesn't make people friendly. Plus it is labor for the cashier. I shouldn't be shamed for not paying attention to everyone on a bus and listening to music instead. This stuff isn't people being nice, it is people doing obligatory thing. A heart-felt thanks isn't the same as the one your mother made you say - greater society is similar. And I'll add that it isn't really making society pleasant: That sort of smalltalk isn't universal. I moved from the US Midwest to Norway, which really hasn't expected folks to chat up cashiers or talk to strangers on the bus. Society here isn't unpleasant, though.
It also demonstrates respect for people of the country you're traveling to.
> Looking stuff up saves money and time if you use it correctly.
Living in a pod like in Matrix saves money and time too, if anything it's the most optimal way to live
People been complaining about walkmans, comic books, DND, rock music, rap…
Raise your hand if you’ve blown airplane smog in others neighborhoods from flying lately. Going on road trips?
Being sedate on a phone might actually be good for the planet and thus future of the species.
Is it social media screwing people up or the meta awareness of how shitty existence is and how few fucks we seem to give despite all the rhetoric about caring?
Did you get this opinion from others, or is this your own rationalization?
Living’s mostly wasting time
And I’ll waste my share of mine
But it never feels too good,
So let’s don’t take too long.I really just want to know though: is this something you have decided makes you more pleasant to be around, or have others told you it?
If you need to suppress your thoughts by using a tool while being alone and not doing something (to be pleasant), maybe you should do something about these thoughts rather than suppress them?
Also, sometimes when you're waiting at the doctor's office you're waiting for important news that would trigger anxiety in the healthiest among us, and distracting yourself is a great strategy in those moments.
I also prefer to read books in these situations, or face with the thing which makes me uncomfortable. I don't like to have a puddle of thoughts which fester and attack at the most inconvenient times, making my life harder than it should be.
Not everyone is scrolling through endless feeds, either - I'm more likely to play a game. There are more than two things you can do with a phone.
The main issue with waiting is that I'm just waiting. I don't like waiting and don't don't see an issue with doing something so the time passes more quickly.
If you don't like something and have the tools to make it a little better, why would you not use them? Especially if it makes you a bit less irritated if they are running late - it makes things better for everyone.
You might believe that, a lot of people do. However, from what I understand the actual science doesn't support is assumption.
In short, for eons, humans lived in the shadow of boredom. The brain evolved in that context. That is, life without boredom has no historical precedent. When boredom is habitually removed you are doing the brain a disservice. You are stifling creativity, insights, and other growth that comes from the seeds planted by boredom and "down time."
Put another way, the convenience of constant access to your device comes with an opportunity cost. And often we're too distracted to consider the loses due to that cost.
Just because someone passes time while waiting doesn't mean they don't have downtime. I can entertain myself while in a position of waiting and still have downtime each day - I cook and clean and take walks and things. And I promise I still have creativity. It allows me to do non-representational art.
The reason I'm more pleasant is simply because I'm not annoyed at the waiting bit - which isn't a thing with most downtime.
I*m not sure everyone in the past was bored. There was stuff to do then, too, and some of that boredom was discouraged. After all, we got sayings like "Idle hands are the Devils playthings"
Please feel free to revisit your answer once you've done the necessary amount of research.
"There was stuff to do then, too, and some of that boredom was discouraged."
Yup! This ^^^ is exactly the point. Prior to that something (constructive?) to do, there was boredom. Pile on enough boredom and the brain finds "answers". And the opposite is true...no boredom...no answers. So we agree then.
The problem here is, your timelines are too short and your extrapolations too shallow. Perhaps that's a symptom of a lack of boredom. See?
I've sat here and taken fixed something annoying - waiting for appointments. I fix that by doing things like playing low-effort games. You seem to think this is about "losing control" or something and it isn't like that. If you lower the amount of things that annoy you - and there always will be those things - of course you are more pleasant. You know, in a general sense. It isn't like I'm sitting here treating the staff badly. I'd get worse service - I'm an immigrant, and I really don't want things to go awry.
You've obviously misread. It isn't like I don't have boredom. I know boredom well enough to know that it isn't all productive or even possibly productive.
I don't think that everyone just "finds answers".
Creativity and "Answers" requires more than simple boredom - boredom isn't a magic pill. Heck, you don't even need actual boredom, just time for your mind to wander while you are doing something with low mental effort. Again, this doesn't mean games while waiting at a doctor's office are bad.
- In my daily commutes, I dedicate my smartphone screen time to creating art and short animations.
- If I ever do feel the urge to read news, I'll pull up HN via the Harmonic app. If I stumble upon an interesting post with healthy comments threads, I'll bookmark it to read on a properly sized screen when I return home.
- My monthly data plan is purposefully capped at 4GB. I use an app firewall to whitelist the most essential apps while everything else is blocked by default from accessing cellular data.
- I don't use streaming services at all but I do occasionally pre-fetch longform podcasts for later consumption. I also disable all phone notifications and wear a "smartwatch" to tell time, track my step counter and monitor barometric pressure in that order.
I’m in the age group that is just old enough to remember adult life before everyone had smartphones.
Honestly, it’s getting weird to read people’s unrealistically idealistic descriptions of life before smartphones. I don’t recall people striking up conversations in grocery lines before smart phones, nor would I have been interested in it.
I think people also downplay how much smartphones just replaced rampant TV consumption for people who like to be entertained constantly. The same people who can’t entertain themselves without their smartphone and who consume toxic content would probably be sitting in front of TVs and watching Jerry Springer type shows instead of scrolling /r/relationships or watching Fox News talking heads instead of whatever weird political thing they’re consuming.
Smartphones changed many things, but the idyllic offline-first fantasies I keep reading about weren’t reality before smartphones either.
If you find yourself unable to moderate consumption, then ditching the smartphone is a good idea for you. However, I reject the idea that all techies need to reject technology and smartphones and embrace an extremist anti-position on the matter. Personally, I handle smartphone usage just fine as do most of the adults around me.
People should recognize when they have a problem, but projecting their own solution on to everyone else is about as appealing as the person who had a problem with drinking too much trying to insist that nobody else should drink any alcohol at all either.
I also use my smartphone for important things like maps, taking photos, keeping lists, and even paying for groceries if I forget my wallet. The way some people talk about smartphones as if they were just social media scrolling devices and nothing more is entirely foreign to how I use my phone.
Modern society is definitely more deliberate in how people interact. You lose some poetic spontaneity but gain in peace and order, which make society scale up. I'm not saying it's all good but it's a trade-off.
Heh, knock on wood. It's an election year.
Maybe, but what I'm saying is that, if they were to do it today, as the parent comment wistfully longs for, that would be what the locals have to put up with.
It doesn't seem obvious to me that this is true. Is there data about this?
Best is to not have the app and use it through the browser to avoid mindlock
I think this dim world view of smartphones is a product of excess. Sure, you wouldn't have many random conversations with strangers at the grocery store, yet they did happen. I suspect they happen a lot less often these days. While those random conversations with strangers were not always welcome, I don't recall them being received with as much hostility as seen from some of the commenters here.
As for people projecting their own solutions on everyone else, I have mixed feelings about that. Ideally people would be able to curb their smartphone usage independent of the world around them. Yet that is easier said than done. You're going to have a challenging time curbing your smartphone usage if the social expectations of your friends or expectations of your employer depend upon using a smartphone. To use your alcohol analogy, it would be like an alcoholic trying to give up the bottle when their friends and colleagues meet up at the bar every night. It's not so much a case that everyone needs to stop drinking. It is a case of the people around them needing to respect that alcohol should not be a fundamental tool for social or professional interactions.
You’re suggesting that because one person struggles with smartphone addiction, all of their friends and professional acquaintances should also give up their smartphones and not use them for social or professional interactions?
The alcohol analogy is apt, because I’ve had a couple friends struggle with alcohol addiction and recover. One of them tried to push complete alcohol abstinence on everyone else, insisting that it couldn’t possibly be used responsibly.
Yet the rest of us did use it responsibly. They didn’t understand how we could simply choose not to drink most nights (or weeks, or even months if we wanted) and how we can choose to drink only a single drink and then be done. They insisted that the entire concept of drinking was flawed and uncontrollable and that we all needed to acknowledge that it’s not working out for anyone. That we need to give up completely, hard stop.
And that’s exactly what some of these extremist anti-smartphone arguments are suggesting: That everyone’s consumption is uncontrollable and negative, that nobody can control themselves, and that the only possible solution is to go back to dumb phones. It’s a severe failure to imagine that anyone else’s behavior might differ from their own, or a failure to accept that maybe their own problems don’t extend to everyone else in the world. It’s certainly comforting to believe that your own problems aren’t a personal failing but rather a feature of being human, but the truth is that many of us do use smartphones with moderation just fine.
To an extent, I suppose so. That is not to say that everyone should abstain from smartphone use, but they should show some consideration in how they use it. For example, should they be using a social networking app for communication when a voice call or SMS will do? Likewise, should that staff meeting be held in a bar when it could be done on the business's premises?
I do. You may not quite be old enough to have seen/participated in this. Or maybe it wasn't happening where you live for some reason? (E.g., this was probably more common in the urbs than the sub-urbs, due to other alienating forces in the latter).
> people also downplay how much smartphones just replaced rampant TV consumption for people who like to be entertained constantly
It was (mostly) not possible to have a TV with you at all moments, on the bus, in line, in the toilet. This meant lots of times where people were with their thoughts or one another. Also, phones have not replaced TV but overlay it. Many (most) now watch their TV (even if streaming) while also layering distraction from their phone.
> Personally, I handle smartphone usage just fine as do most of the adults around me.
Good for you! I'm curious, what's your average phone usage in hrs/day?
IMO, the degrading effect of smart phones (and the distraction machines of the attention economy more generally) is something that should be discussed and problematized. If some are good at self-moderating, their contributions to the discussion may be especially helpful.
> I reject the idea that all techies need to reject technology and smartphones
Just to clarify, rejecting smart phones as they are currently designed and implemented as bad technology is not the same as rejecting all technology per se.
> projecting their own solution on to everyone else is about as appealing as the person who had a problem with drinking too much trying to insist that nobody else should drink any alcohol at all either
This is an interesting analogy b/c ["No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health"](https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-...). I doubt that smart phones are as unequivocally toxic as alcohol, but I do suspect that the current way they are used and developed may be, esp. thanks to gamification, nudge design, and surveillance. Research is coming out on this, but I think there is good reason to not assume it is systemically innocuous as you think it is.
However, b/c living in an inattentive society may actually be worse for everyone, it's possible that a better analogy may be smoking in public or drunk driving: if you smoke in public places or get behind a wheel, everyone is at greater risk.
> I also use my smartphone for important things like maps, taking photos, keeping lists, and even paying for groceries if I forget my wallet.
Imagine a utility that enabled these important functions but did not also constantly disrupt your attention with push notifications, harvest your data, or present the temptation of hours wasted in toxic digital fun-houses! :D It's possible!
Now everyone is in their own social / information bubble, oblivious to their own surroundings. We are more polarized, lonely, and with less real life friends.
Telling people not use smartphones is like telling them to not use the Internet. People will need to figure out the distractions and social media with their phones.
Maybe some secret cabal of psychologists are actually behind it to raise their revenue.
[1] https://nypost.com/2019/08/13/big-tech-is-using-psychology-t...
If nothing else it makes it obvious who is trying to plug themselves into the matrix so you can stay away.
I like having a smartphone. And as I have no kids, I only go home a few hours before I am to sleep. I can't have my workstation in my car, but the phone suffices most days.
But your opinion got me thinking: what gadget would I replace my phone with? Maybe a flip phone, a kindle, and one of those AI rabbit gadgets.
1. Translation
2. Maps and Directions
3. Ticketing Services
4. Ride Hailing Services
5. Weather
6. Camera
7. Making calls from anywhere to anywhere
None of those are necessarily what people think of first when they hear "smartphone", but without them traveling would be a pretty difficult experience. I know firsthand, because I traveled prior to having these things. I had to deal with the expense policy at work trying to figure out how to get and handle cash in multiple countries so I could pay for a taxi and risk getting ripped off, or buy a train ticket. I had to carry around a phrase book and hope my pronunciation was close enough to get things done without offending anyone. I had to deal with paper maps, and get lost, and hope I made appointments on time. I had to roll around a wheeled pelican case with camera gear to get any decent photos, taking up precious space and making me stand out. And for the weather, well, I just looked outside and hoped I brought the right clothes.
I don't use social media, except Hacker News (if that counts). I don't really do any of the things you probably think of when you think of smartphones being problematic, but having this devices has made my life immeasurably better. So much so, that it's probably the most essential thing in my travel kit.
I do resent things that require smartphone though. E.g. parking or ordering in some places. And especially if they require your device to be certified as locked down by the Google-Apple duopoly
My current flip device (Sonim XP3+) is mil-spec tough (in the sense of "Is tested to a range of military standards and passes"), lasts a casual week on battery (or two, if I shut it down at night, which I frequently do), and I can use it just fine with gloves on - which isn't a problem because the usable temperature range is radically wider than smartphones too. It also has a far louder ringer and speaker than almost any smartphone out there.
But more importantly, to your second point:
> I do resent things that require smartphone though.
The way to fight this requires "not carrying a smartphone." If you obviously have a smartphone and refuse to install the apps to do [whatever], you're just being cantankerous and can be safely ignored. When you pull out a flip phone and act baffled, it really surprises people. I don't think a lot of people under the age of about 30 even realize there's anything that's not "Android" or "iOS" out there (or if they do, they're still shocked that anyone would use it). So because I object to "smartphones required," and I'm old enough/stubborn enough to help counter that world, carrying a flip phone is a way for me to help fight back against the "smartphone as default way of interacting with all reality" thing that's been creeping in for quite a few years now, accelerated with the touch-free stuff during Covid.
The same happens when I show them my Librem 5 running PureOS and ask for a Linux app.
I got trapped by this over the weekend. I had a date to a hot new restaurant in town. When we arrived, I discovered that not only do they not provide actual menus, requiring you to go to a website instead, they also don't let you order and pay except through that website (Toast).
I was livid. But I was on a date and so felt forced to smile and pretend everything was cool, and subject myself to what turned out to be a privacy policy and ToS that I would never have agreed to under any circumstances.
But lesson learned: now I need to call ahead to establishments to ask if they force their customers to use that sort of nonsense, so I won't get trapped again.
Not for me. I don't use social media (I'm even one of those few people who spend less than an hour or two per day using my smartphone at all), but smartphones are still a real problem for me.
I also find it fascinating from an engineering perspective. I wonder what other apps they've managed to integrate into the flip phone?
I want an actual dumbphone, but I can't find any on the market anywhere.
https://koshercell.org/collections/dumb-phones
Though there may be other features of a Kosher phone that don't make it a good choice for somebody who wants a dumb phone but doesn't live within a specific type of insular religious community. I'm not sure.
There are very large benefits to having one, but I think that the drawbacks, of the sort you're talking about as well as the privacy/security issues with them, are larger than the benefits. They are a net negative. And I don't even use social media.
It wasn't always so. This equation became unfavorable just a handful of years ago.
And the fact that it's hard enough to give them up that I need a transition period gives even greater urgency to the need for me to give them up.
Half a decade ago I eliminated all my social media. Then about a year ago I started by removing work email and messaging from my phone.The next step will be having a designated spot for it to stay while I'm home.
I don't know if I will ever revert back to having a thick wallet and a pocket full of keys, but maybe someday I can evolve to look at the smartphone as a utilitarian device without the addictive qualities.
Now to get back to scrolling on Hacker News.
If you use GPS only for navigation in a car, get a Garmin or something similar.
Payment: Is it that hard to use a CC like most people do...? I only recently used my phone for payments (lost card and was waiting for replacement), and did not find it any more convenient than using a card.
Lighting: Do you need to do this only at home or away from home? If the former, buy a Google Home (albeit that has its own issues...)
Car/house key: Sorry, no experience with this. I'd be terrified of using my phone that way.
Health tracker: No experience with this, so I don't know how you use it and what the alternatives are.
> Half a decade ago I eliminated all my social media. Then about a year ago I started by removing work email and messaging from my phone.The next step will be having a designated spot for it to stay while I'm home.
Good steps. I never allowed work stuff on my phone. And if I take it out at home, I'll leave it wherever I took it out. I have a PC so I don't need the phone (and yes, it's great that the PC is not mobile). I use my VoIP line as my main phone, so I have those all around the house. People know I may not answer my cell phone at home due to me not hearing it ring.
> thick wallet
How thick is thick? 1-2 credit cards, 1-2 debit cards. Not that thick.
When I've got my phone, I don't need my keys. I don't need my wallet. I don't need a book. I can have a whole night out with the only thing on me is my phone, other than a few bucks stashed in my shoe for emergency bus fare.
You can't even drive your car?
My phones have failed me on multiple occasions over the years.
What happens if I lose my wallet? What happens if I lose my car keys? Its not like these other things are immune to "what if it gets lost?" Sure, there's a bit of risk tying it all to one thing, but in the end I'm not talking about being more than a few hours walk to home or a friend's house. And like I said, I usually carry enough cash in my shoe to cover a half day fare.
At least for my car, I do have a backup code I can type in and access it.
My phone is waterproof. Its durable enough, its fallen out of my pocket while riding my bike before and been fine. I did have a problem of breaking phones in the past, but since waterproof phones and far more durable screens have been a thing I haven't really lost any to damage since. The last time I broke a phone was 2012. It seems like if I managed to break my phone I'm likely to be picked up by an ambulance anyways.
> And what do you do if you run out of batteries?
My battery lasts 2 days. If I'm away for a night I pack a charger along with my toothbrush and clothes. I genuinely cannot remember the last time I was caught off guard by this.
> Or lose the phone?
Short term - same as if I lose my keys or my wallet. It's a giant pain in the ass. longer term, doesn't matter, new phone + restore from backup. I don't need to phone my bank and cancel my cards, or change the locks on my doors in case my keys were pickpocketed and I'm targeted.
> Or it gets wet and won't turn on?
Many smartphones have been ip68 rated for the best part of a decade. Note that to not turn on, you're realistically talking about submerging it, not just being out in the rain. Maybe I live a more sheltered life than you, but finding myself unexpectedly submerged is about as extreme a situation as I'm going to find myself in, and not one I plan for other than being able to swim.
I was stuck without essential functions until I could get it repaired or replaced. Luckily I was able to get it opened, cleaned and dried and a new screen fitted by a local repair shop within 2 days.
Without my phone, I can't pay things on my credit card sometimes (some payments require phone app 2FA), and I can't login to several of my bank accounts (they use authentication by mobile app even for web-based banking on my laptop).
GPS, check.
Payment, check.
Lighting, check.
Car/house key, no.
Health tracker, check.
I'm pretty sure there was a simple OSM app for GerdaOS -- the rooted privacy a friendly version of KaiOS for the Nokia 8110 4G.
GPS: Garmin, or use a map.
Payments: use a card, or cash.
Car keys: use the keys that came with the car.
House keys: Carry them with you, or get a keypad lock.
Lights: use the switch on the wall
Health tracker: notebook and pencil
> Payments: use a card, or cash.
The card part ends up requiring phone confirmation as a second factor, often online, occasionally offline.
> Health tracker: notebook and pencil
Convenience matters - notebook and pencil method cuts down people benefiting from health tracking by a couple orders of magnitude.
How?
Or take pressure monitoring. My whole life, I've been suffering from acute chronic cannot-form-a-habit-to-save-my-life-itis, (now also known as "treatment-resistant part of my ADHD"). There's no way in hell I can stick to daily (or worse, less frequent) measurements using cuff-style upper arm monitor. It may be portable, battery-powered, trivial to use, but it's still too much of a hassle. What I can do is use it to recalibrate my smartwatch every couple weeks, and use that to take measurements - I still can't form a habit, but at least something I can do within couple seconds of remembering it. So, thanks to the watch, I get some data, where otherwise I'd have none, and that's all because of convenience factor.
Or just look at the popularity of fitness bands and watches. Some people derive value from those automatic measurements. Of those people, many (most) wouldn't otherwise bother if they had to use a stopwatch and a notebook instead.
I went through periods of wanting to make changes in my life, and I thought it was all about figuring out a perfect system.
It turned out that the bigger problem was actually overthinking, and it was that overthinking itself which wanted more data and more methods.
In actuality, what helped was removing as much friction as possible. I have no data about my sleep except for the clear fact that I wake up earlier and spend almost no time rolling around my bed before getting out of it. I don't need either a watch or paper to tell me that.
I don't say that as a way of critiquing your methods, just wondering if you notice real, considerable change as a result, the kind that you don't need to minutely keep track of because it's so obvious.
Or to make it not personal, is there a known correlation between the popularity of fitness tracking devices and significant weight loss across populations?
My macro point was that the smartphone introduced several very sticky conveniences, so I kept my smartphone instead of adopting a light phone or similar device. Instead, I am working on treating it as an appliance or a utility device vs. a constant extension of my arm.
For example, my two vehicles can be accessed via a smartphone key/app or a card in my wallet. So my wallet is slimmer than before, but it has a credit card, vehicle access cards, insurance, license, etc. I now carry one credit card instead of multiple physical cards since my phone wallet has several to choose from for tap to pay.
I can unlock my home remotely or via a phone tap, watch tap, physical key, passcode, or remotely. Most phone lighting controls are convenient instead of getting up and going to the switch. But the phone allows for finer-grained control of light temperatures, brightness, electrical usage, etc.
If I was determined to rid my life of a smartphone, I could sell my vehicles, buy a non-smart lock for my home, and stop tracking my workouts and diet with the phone app.
At the moment, ditching my smartphone isn't an option. I'm taking steps to treat it like any other appliance or a utility vs. an entertainment or consumption platform, which is where I believe the addictiveness lies.
Again, Google Home gives you most of that...
Fortunately for me, the for factor + UI of phones always sucked for me, so needing to use it for anything is a deterrent. I dislike small screens, and dislike non-physical keyboards. After decades of efficient PC usage, using a phone always feels like a speed bump.
It's good to have data on the go when needed, and good for camera. For everything else, it feels inferior. And whenever I find a really neat use for the phone, the Android Police clamp it down and break it (e.g. the AutoMagic app and automation in general).
However, they also come with a ton of tracking, and are a disaster for privacy.
Good luck.
You won't though, "because sekhurity" - the trend points at everything using your phone as a second factor, and not even via the authenticator app, but vendor-specific push notifications, on a remotely attested phone. Banks and media companies are pushing hard for it.
I put my phone charger in a drawer by drilling a hole in the back in order to run a power cord. I found that just having the phone on silent and out of sight helps a lot.
It also helps with clutter, instead of having a ton of random devices and cables, all of that mess is in a drawer that doesn't bother me.
Sounds like a good compromise, like a basket where you put all your keys you need when leaving home.
I think the core issue with attention is ultimately the same as with infinite scroll, and the reward mechanism.
For me the unease can be felt as soon as I unlock phone, it’s like a bunch of candies and there is this implicit feeling that you need to do something, to interact with something.
Then there is this angst like when you get physical mail and you anticipate who it might be from back when we wrote more letters. Only now with smartphones it gets repeated endlessly throughout the day.
Can we really force ourselves to slow down ? To live a simpler life ? I think it’s not possible until profound changes in our society such as basic income.
The smartphone in a sense is symptomatic of the rat race. It’s the only way we found to make things better when better is « doing more things in less time ».
I employ a lightweight version: in my home is a "charging station" where it is easy to place a device and then forget about it. Some days I don't even see my phone until noon. If I drop my device at the charging station when I walk past it or when I get home, it's likely I won't pick it up for many hours. This practice has been a game changer for elongating my attention span and conducting myself with greater presence.
Notes:
- There's no downside to this strategy; I still have a 2-factor auth device, maps for travel, music for car rides, convenient contactless payment, etc.
- The charging station should be away from the main living areas and bedroom – mine is in a hallway's open cupboard near the main entrance.
- The "charging" part of the charging station is a misnomer, you don't have to charge anything, but the label serves as an enticement to drop off the device.
My trouble is that it's not necessarily the phone I'm addicted to, but screens in general. I have a tablet that floats around the house, and my laptop is never far away, so without the phone in hand, I'm reaching for one of those two preferred devices.
The justification is that I'm not playing games or endlessly scrolling social media. If I'm on my tablet, I'm reading news or a book. If I'm on my laptop, I'm working on a project or learning something.
I view my devices as tools, so any use of them is intended to inform me or further my understanding on something. Still, I arguably spend too much time on all of them collectively and I am not clear if this is healthy or not, but it does make me happier than my actual job or going out into the community which inevitably involves spending money I don't need to spend. Of the people who know me and understand this, nobody seems alarmed by my behavior.
I mentioned that because I deal with substance abuse in my life as a 12-year-sober recovering alcoholic. When we start applying the word "addiction" and it's barbed hooks to things like technology, I take notice. I'd argue that it depends on what you are doing with said device. Doom scrolling? Gambling? Eroding your self-worth by comparing yourself to people on Instagram? Watching vapid YouTubers read listicles from Reddit?
The activity matters...BUT, is the person performing the activity getting some joy from it without harming themselves or others?
It's a sticky subject, to me, but one worth discussing.
If it is to be used as a "reader" device then, well, whatever. But in that case why not just use a "reader device" then.
Which there are much cheaper options in the same form factor! The InkPalm 5 is 1/3rd the cost. Neat little gadget too.
I'd rather work on my paranoia than on getting a fully secured device.
By the way, I am writing this on a mobile with 2 GB RAM and running Android 9 as my other mobile got broken.
Part of me thinks I should just go for it, because I read a lot on my smartphone and miss Android’s Moon+ Reader - with Goldendict for Startdict/Lingvo dictionaries, it made a killer combo for reading foreign language texts with many new words.
Videos being unusable would be a fantastic QoL feature.
I've tried reading on phones, reading on tablets, etc, and the problem is that there's always so much else to do - or, at least, things that interrupt you (SMS messages and such on a phone).
I moved... oh, 10+ years ago, I think, to a Kobo (e-ink reader, not Kindle, far more hackable and open, swallows everything except some DRM which I strip on a desktop). I now have several, as they're just such good devices for reading text. I've also moved a lot of my "web reading" to them via Pocket, in which I send a link to Pocket and get the article, on my device, as long form text without any of the nonsense that's in most web articles (most images work, but not all).
It's far better than trying to have a combo device. And my 10+ year old Kobo Auras still work just fine for reading.
I also have a dedicated audio player (Shanling M0). Great for listening to an album before sleeping or for focus sessions.
I prefer having dedicated devices. The phone is only for communication, taking photos, and quick browsing. And some of the desktop apps I use have their mobile counterparts so I can do a quick tasks without getting the laptop. And I think that suits its main purpose for me, a PDA.
I use the phone as a 4G hotspot, Apple Music, plus apps such as Uber, Waze, wallet, etc. No social networks (LinkedIn and Reddit only on desktop browser), no messaging.
Apple Watch replaced with Casio GShock (solar powered and automatically adjusted via radio, expect it to last 20 years)
Palma has WhatsApp and telegram, outlook (closed most of the time) and reading apps.Podcasts too.
Most sites are consumed via RSS. PDF to Readwise for read later, notes on desktop Obsidian.
I can use Organic Maps in the Palma, and most tickets via QR. I try to force myself not to use the iPhone at all on the street except one of those cases (recharge public transport ticket, camera, payment, etc)
1: I don't bring my smartphone into my bedroom. My bedroom is a personal and intimate space, no need for the outside world to barge in via smartphone.
2: I disable or silence every notification I get. The only time my phone draws my attention is if I am getting a phone call, my wife texts me, or if I get a Pagerduty.
3: I uninstalled or disabled all social media apps.
Number 2 had the biggest impact on my family and work life. When I spend time with my kids, my phone only rarely interrupts me.
My phone is like yours, it only rings for a certain few. I do not know what "Pagerduty" is, but I purchased numeric telephone paging service [to a "beeper"] and give this number to the few important people in my life that need to be able to get my attention.
Surprisingly, paging services still exist across metro-US, even in 2024 [I use pagerdirect, no affiliation].
#4: I rarely leave my house with a cell phone, and it is heavenly. Asking anybody to "leave their phone behind" invokes constant anxiety in most travel companions...
You lucky bastard.
It's for getting paged into on-call events. It shows you don't go on-call which makes me want to know...is your company hiring? haha
It also needs to be a default functionality of browsers. The ability to limit time on websites.
There is LeechBlock for browsers.
Right, there’s plenty of extensions, paid and non paid for users. But what I said was:
> It also needs to be a default functionality of browsers.
So we voluntarily (I have to stress, this is something we both are 100% on board with, don’t be a creep) set a passcode, and from midnight to 8pm our browsers are locked down, we can only use a few apps, and we’re focused on the kids or work. The only problem with this is overriding it requires us to be together in person, but over a few weeks we’ve hammered it out pretty well. Each one can ask the other to unlock stuff, but just having that little extra hurdle goes a long way in helping reduce screen addiction.
The only criticism I have of it so far is my wife gets really weird when everything unlocks because she’s in sort of a mad rush to watch her shows, haha.
The only unexpected bit is that you two need to be together when replacing the phone (such as erasing it, transferring contents, or similar).
I am now using it to easy off some sites and I've set a couple of 7 minutes sessions per day and I've limited my time time considerably in the last month
Of course, the companies fight back, e.g. Facebook messaging isn't (last I checked) available through the Facebook-in-the-browser; it requires the Messenger app.
I would be curious to hear your experience - it's been functional for me for quite some time, but just recently it's had a banner declaring that it was going away....
My news is literally only a digital newspaper subscription on my phone. So once I've read that, there's nothing more to read for the rest of the day.
For awhile I would pick up my phone, realize there's nothing interesting on it and go do something else. I've read 6 books so far this year. I'm on pace to 5x my reading from last year. I'm watching movies or tv with complete attention, where I used to be confused as to what was going on cause I'd be on my phone.
Whatever helps you get rid of your unskillful habits, keep at it. The rest of the world is always going to be vying for your attention, it's yours to spend how you choose.
I don't mind it. It's easier to do half-blind and just sanity check your results.
But more importantly, it's been a thing I use to move some longer form interactions to email. I won't have a long form conversation via text anymore, I go to a proper keyboard.
Sometimes an addiction really is because something is designed to be incredibly addictive, not because of some underlying psychological issue with the user.
Also even if you delete the apps, most people are in social groups with people who still use them and send links to content on them. It’s hard to avoid them entirely.
That's the issue; the real world can only offer up so much so fast. Drugs and the scroll can offer it faster. Expecting people to turn away from that even when it's visibly harming them isn't reasonable; we know for a fact it doesn't happen, people overdose on fentanyl and then immediately go back to buy more.
India banned TikTok by legislation and made it stick. Rule that social media properties are either dangerously addictive or enemy cyberweapons and ban them.
My phone won't tell you crap.
Given that a very very large number of people are _visibly_ addicted to their phones, what would that look like, what action would you propose, what resources would be deployable?
Are you saying that a majority of the population have an 'underlying issue' that needs to be addressed? What is that issue?
Even still there will always be obstacles in life to overcome. CBT has been helpful for many so it may be a place to start. CBT can help one understand the underlying issue and replace the vice with a healthier coping mechanism.
People by and large don't need therapy and to pathologise and dwell on nonexistent issues, they really just need to hang out more with other people and realise that what they're seeing online isn't representative of reality.
That's really it lol
I think one action is this, talking about it, raising awareness. To some it might be obvious that being glued to a tiny screen to the point that you need to constantly look at it while you're driving is a problem, but in some circles it's normalized.
These are your words. You raised the topic of driving in response to my comment which didn't mention driving.
me:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39256964
your reply:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39258323
What a weird interaction this is. Are you misreading the thread?
An addiction is a layer of defense. It keeps you distracted from those underlying issues. If you remove part of it, you're not "fixing the problem and patting yourself on the back", you're getting a break from it in order to better look at those underlying issues from a distance.
>Each article would take a little over two minutes to read for an average adult. Reading all of Wikipedia would take about 140 000 hours, which is 5800 days, or almost sixteen years. That's assuming that you're reading 24 hours a day! Reading a standard eight-hour workday seems more reasonable.
It's such a learned helplessness statement "oh no, I can't possibly not open the reddit app 30 times a day. Save me from myself."
Like, I get it, it's not easy but it's also a pretty basic part of being an adult. Like brushing your teeth, eating healthily or doing exercise (which is to say: if you think "I have problems with those too" then the problem really isn't your smartphone).
Everyone knows smoking crack is bad for you. A lot of people want to quit but are unable to no matter how much “self discipline” they have. And app developers have teams of people dedicated to making sure you stay on these apps longer and longer.
Now imagine your dealer is in your pocket 24/7.
Again: learned helplessness. You've picked a comparison to ensure that you have maximally separated any notion of your own culpability. Drug addicts who get clean start by recognizing that they made the choice to start, and need to be mindful of the choice to quit, outside the physical addictions which drive it.
The answer for them isn't "I need the crack dealers to all go away first".
You wouldn’t tell a depressed person to just stop being depressed either and that they lack the discipline to be happy.
Externalizing the locus of your problems is itself a pathology: "I receive too many notifications from social media apps" in a normal person leads to "so I just silenced them all" or "that's why I don't install social media apps, who needs that?".
The first thing anyone does in this topic though is externalize the problem: it's not a problem with them, it's a problem with the broadest possible generalization of a thing. They're not incapable of having a smartphone, everyone is.
People fail therapy and rehab all the time because of that expectation mismatch: you don't go in and "they fix you", you go in and put in the work to fix yourself, with some assistance.
The US army officially considers cyberspace to be a dimension https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Dimension_Operations
If a factory is polluting the air, the water, if you can't sleep because it makes loud noises at night, you don't tell people they should get air masks, or water filters, or take melatonin, or to just move somewhere else.
If you live in an area that a corporation is about to deforest, you don't just tell individuals to just plant a tree.
If you live in an area where traffic lights don't work, the streets are full of pot holes, you don't tell people to just drive better and get a jeep, or to just walk places.
The internet is a shared space, and you have to consider who you're siding with and why. You initially said this "triggers your learn self discipline" response. Did you stop and ponder why you have that trigger and why you feel so strongly about shifting the onus from powerful corporations towards individuals?
Thus proving my original point: the immediate reaction is to try and externalize the problem, despite the fact that it is entirely being driven by your own choices.
You've carefully constructed your example once again to make yourself the idle victim: powerless against those evil corporations who are just forcing those alluring social media sites on to you. As though you exert no control or dominion over your smartphone or it's applications, or how you use them.
Given that you ignored pretty much all of my points and instead doubled down on your bootstraps mentality I'm just gonna say your empathy is very atrophied.
Perhaps the language of idolatry as used in the Bible (reflecting thousands of years in the Jewish and Christian traditions) may be more helpful. What many see as addictions may in fact be an underlying spiritual condition of serving something as an idol, or a God-substitute. The only way to break that is repentance, turning from the idolatry to the living God. But this gives hope, because as people we are able to do exactly that.
We are more that a bag of matter and energy. We can exercise responsibility over our actions.
The doctrine if sin and the language if idolatry actually can give hope, as the possibility of repentance and belief is always there.
billions of dollars invested into behavior manipulation algorithms using billions of terabytes of data gathered through constant surveillance
vs
just don't use it lol
If you were to design a visual drug, as a concept, you wouldn't get very far from the current state of affairs.
The preponderance of substance abuse addicts in recovery that "swap the witch for the bitch" and adopt behavioural addictions also support the genetic basis for addictability (my word).
I am a behavioural addict in recovery (4442 days today) and when I consider my siblings, parents, their siblings and their children (my first cousins), there's a >50% incidence of addiction to either smoking (>2 packs/day), alcohol, sex, food, gambling, or drug use. Half of that cohort have more than one addiction and among those almost all share a substance addiction with a behavioural addiction.
I appreciate that this is just one family and is statistically irrelevant. However because I've been around people dealing with their addictions for so long and spoken to so many, this is not an uncommon familial pattern among addicts.
I'd also add that in my clan there are many instances where one sibling is an addict and another isn't. This is not learned behaviour (though the introduction to addictive pathways/behaviours etc is often as a result of environmental and psycho-social factors).
We talk about habituated phone users - people who sit there refreshing their social feed for 14 hours a day - and while these are troubling cases, I don’t think they represent the majority of people who say they want to give up their smartphone.
Meanwhile in France: https://www.upworthy.com/under-french-law-businesses-cant-em...
I got rid of social media apps a while ago, and except for Spotify I feel like I could manage without a smartphone; but none of them have a good enough photo quality for me (that and the icloud sync)?
Am I missing something?
I don't really care about taking high quality photos ( or any photos)
When you go out with friends you haven't seen in a while, isn't it nice to have a photo to compare with to see how much you've changed?
I think given the options of a) having a photographical recollection of your life and b) having nothing, I'm not sure why would one pick the latter.
It also has a new update on icons. I finally now have consistent icons even for rare apps (e.g. specific to your country/locale) after a long long time. It honestly feels a lot better when specific apps (designed to catch your attention with the "notification dots") don't stand out.
Make your homescreen boring.
There is probably a middle ground like this article suggests that's more realistic. Just take the addictive stuff off, control notifications, add timers, add friction where you can etc. Just leaving my facebook account logged out basically killed my random scrolling habit.
I've got a flip phone (Sonim XP3+) with a viable camera in it. It's not amazing, but it's more than good enough to document stuff like that, and I can send things with a computer when I get back home (though admittedly, I carry a powered off laptop with me often enough - that plus tethering off my phone gets me a backup for just about everything I could want, though I almost never use it).
Or just carry a cheap point-n-shoot digital camera in your bag. I've started doing that too - the rugged/tough variety are well suited to banging around with you until you need them for something.
[1] https://digitalvegan.net/review/digital-vegan-reviewerscopy....
That’s not a phone then. It’s a computer (?)
iPhone 12 mini is my first smartphone late 2023. I have used iPads for ten years. Love how the iPad freed me from sitting at the PC.
Now similarly I wonder if I’ll ever buy iPad again and just buy a good smartphone. Can go airplane mode anyway if I want to.
iPhone is kinda like a iPad mini with the SIM card stuff.
The convergence is inevitable, Apple Pay is great. My banking app is easier to use on phone than on PC WTF phone doesn’t require me to swipe card in some physical card trader, just type in a short code.
It only makes sense someday the phone will be like your ID for everything.
IMHO the core unease here is not really the device but just how apps are built, especially social media, which itself is symptomatic of a distorted way of life (cf koyaanisqatsi)
It has wifi though, but you can't watch videos or scroll fast because of the e-ink screen.
It's a flip phone that runs android, so can still use whatsapp, signal, email, maps, use rideshare apps, scan qr codes, and play music, but is limited enough that I'm not scrolling on it during free interstitial moments. The screen is too small to really be useful for reading the internet or using something like instagram, but I'm not totally cut off from friends and family.
I've used other dumbphones in the past, notably the Punkt MP01 and the Light Phone II and the Cat feels like one I could use indefinitely and not have to have another device handy. The only exception I would note is that I recently got back from traveling to a foreign country and a city I'd never been and I think I would have rather had a smart phone there.
1. Turn Mobile Data Off
2. Turn Bluetooth Off
3. Turn WiFi Off
4. Turn AppleTV off (this one is fun because it can cut off a show mid-sentence)
5. Set brightness to 10%.
Then, a reverse of the above at 6am the following day.
Normal phone signal is still enabled for any emergency calls, but most apps become useless without the internet.
In the early noughties I had saved a woman from being hit by a train: she had been texting and walking without minding her surroundings. That scared me, and I vowed to never become like her.
I got my first and only smartphone in 2020, mostly to get a inexpensive, decent digital camera — because simple cameras that are not smartphones are not made any more. I had been evaluating different models for several months, and mostly been disappointed with how bad the smartphone landscape is compared to computers. I chose the one I thought was the least bad (Google Pixel 4a).
The biggest problem I have had without a cellphone is with other people who just blatantly make assumptions about how I have/use it. I had to start using SIM cards in late 2022 only for 2FA to my online health records.
My car has some crappy navigation which is good enough along with my memory for most of my routes.
Other that that, I bought vintage samsung phone and using it as my main phone.
Sometimes I'm carrying my iPhone, but not often. I also don't use it regularly for stuff other people use like instagram, etc. My work chats are in the browser and my auxiliary chats can live with one-two check-ups in a week. And if someone need me, he can just call me.
I didn't really made it a crusade or something like that, I just found at some point that I don't need smartphone for most of my use-cases. Ordinary phone battery works for few weeks. I have watch on my wrist to check on time.
Of course I know that it takes two to tango, and if I didn't have treatment-resistant ADHD the phone wouldn't have it's hooks in me the way it does. Back to the treatment drawing board, I guess.
Also, going through the feature checklist on https://www.dumbphones.org/ made me realize how many of these things are so helpful. I checked all the ones I would want, and there were no dumbphones that supported them. GPS Navigation, Group Text, Hotspot, WiFi Calling, Rideshare, Camera, Calendar Sync. And, if it can do all those things, its not that dumb.
Super useful:
- Maps / Travel
- Messaging/Calling
- Camera / Gallery
- Search / information lookup
- Banking
- Authentication
But then there's:
- Ads everywhere
- Notifications clamoring for attention, even from the useful apps.
- 10 flavors of social media (which has to include HN, even if it's less intrusive than most).
It's like the utility and connections it gives you are bait. I seldom feel at rest, never fully trusting an app on my phone to want to give me the best experience possible.
I’m also on call for work 24/7, so quickly having access to employer’s and customer’s communication service, software, and files is a requirement.
All of these tasks could be completed using multiple different tools, but with immensely greater friction and difficulty. It amplifies and augments mental capabilities.
The downsides as I see them so far: - Constant access to data, distractions, news, communication reduces ability to focus and can create mental fatigue (but I already had issues with focusing anyway, so the benefits of time management outweigh the cons) - Social media…enough said - probably reduces memory and mental capacity as its easier to simply look something up or run a quick calculation than to remember data or do mental math. So while it can augment mental capacity, it can also become a crutch. Like every new technology there are both benefits and cons. It requires leveraging the new technology in a way that benefits you, and mitigating or managing any negative impacts.
If you uninstall every social media app from the smartphone and configure every one to one communication app to silent mode most if not all of the negative impact that your smartphone have on your life will probably go away or become trivial issues. But then again that's kind of like turning your smartphone into an dumpphone, and decrease the need for a big new expensive one every 18-24 months.
The problem with smartphone centric asocial media is that they discourage one to one and longform messages so what you get is the equivalent of a crowd of people shouting slogans at each other and while that can be tremendeusly entertaining it's mentally draining and rarely lead to closer relationships or constructive dialogue.
Add to this is the fact that.there is indications that being bored is actually beneficial to long term mental health.
iPhone text prediction constantly messing with me didn’t help either. I’m sure it’s tunable somewhere, I just don’t care anymore.
The Problem is not the tool. The problem isn't even the users per se. The Problem is that the "curators" (?) of the experience(s) provided by the tool have their own best interests in mind. They're not working to better us, they have their own self-serving agenda.
I recently read "Stand Out of Our Light". To paraphrase what was for me a key paragraph:
"Some of the best and brightest experts on human behavior are being generously funded by some of the most influential and wealthiest companies in the history of the world...to tilt as much as possible in their own favor (not our own). Given that reality, we don't stand a chance.'
It's not us.
It's them.
To believe other at this pount is naive.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/stand-out-of-our-light/...
My work/friends/family have gotten used to the full-time Do Not Disturb. They can call me if they need me, which my Garmin watch will show.
I listen to podcasts while working and to go to bed, listen to music and play music for my daughter (youtube time is 90% listening).
Does someone have a recommendation?
Obviously when everybody is talking from their laptop in a videocall, source of distractions and the lure of multitasking is much stronger.
Started as an experiment but at this point I enjoy my increased privacy and renewed attention span too much to have an interest in going back.
I have enough internet access on laptops and desktops. I do not also need to be online every second between access to those devices.
Has anyone tried this?
For starters: Don't bring your phone to the grociers, to walks, turn off all kinds of notifications, read mail once a day, or week. All kinds of apps that require your attention should be removed/muted.
i believe that once you disconnect social media and games from your phone usage, you take care of 99% of the issues people have with modern devices. i understand that doing that also is a big task, but so is going back to flip phones of the past.
personally i am plenty distracted without my phone, and i get my fair share without using it a lot. but in my profession i cannot afford to get rid of all tech altogether. i hope there are ways people go about it.
$40 and no subscription. No affiliation with the founders (who I believe have bootstrapped their business).
I'd like to get rid of the smartphone entirely, but it's a great podcast and audiobook delivery device.
I don't really buy into these anti-society articles anymore.
That said, I'll agree that it is increasingly difficult to participate in some spheres without specific apps. The article discusses this too. It is an alarming trend that excludes those who are unable to or cannot afford to use smartphones.
I was thinking I could call forward from my smartphone to my dumbphone when I'm leaving the former at home. Seems like a good compromise?
I would say if one cannot live without a smartphone (for stuff like banking and all + instant messaging) a good middle ground between a dumb and a smartphone is a kaios (formerly FirefoxOS) phone + an android or ipad tablet for home. KaiOS phones usually have a small screen and are underpowered which limit the appeal of browsing and doing too much shit on social medias but the basics are there: - google maps - whatsapp - a web browser - wikipedia - note taking - audio player - a small camera (not for nice pictures but to snap information) - 2FA OTP app
Usually all the stuff you might really need an android for (banking, healthcare, whatever) can wait for you to be home but you can still decide to bring a tablet in a bag when you know you will need it for a specific task (or when travelling).
I've looked into KaiOS, but I read that its future looks murky at best. In principle though, I like this idea.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KaiOS/comments/15wn0co/is_kaios_dea...
Going back to a desktop computer that you turn off regularly (so there's some friction waiting for it to boot) is one of the best ways to approach the internet these days.
I prefer the form factor of board games, paper books, and such things over any sort of digital devices in the evening. So form factor isn't a big deal.
I'm trying to recover an offline-first life, in which I only use digital devices for interacting with other people (or, occasionally, communicating about such things - it's been an intermittent theme on my blog, and I've got a lot more "offline project" posts coming up soon, about charcoal, rock dust, and other related things).
Mostly, anymore, I use a desktop at home.
I turned off notifications and it only wakes when I tap it.
Most of the benefits came from the friction the device itself causes. The texting experience was terrible, so I texted less. The internet browser was laughable, so I just pulled out my laptop when I needed to look something up.
Did I enjoy the flip phone? Absolutely not. The experience was terrible. But I did learn some lessons.
It made me appreciate my smart phone for what it was - a computer in my pocket. The more I can think of it as a tool to use at my disposal, the less of a distraction the device itself becomes. By disabling notifications for every app, I essentially get the same experience as a flip phone. I browse the web through apps to do a specific activity when the need strikes. Other than that, it stays in my pocket (or more likely at home, in the couch cushion).
Plus, I also learned that I like the idea of memorizing directions more than using turn-by-turn nav. It makes me pay more attention to the roads and I gain a better familiarity with my area.
Ideally, I would have two devices: a mobile phone and a pocket computer.
Sometimes I might carry the computer. Other times not.
"He said he slept better, felt more productive at work and had more meaningful communications. Mr. Epstein, a Hasidic Jew, said his choice of device was not unusual in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, which encourages the use of "kosher phones" with limited internet access."
There was some grumbling when the initiative was proposed,
with some predicting that people would quit. But that didn’t
happen, Mr. Epstein said.