Nuclear smartphone 3V battery lasting for 50 years | Hacker News Reader

Nuclear smartphone 3V battery lasting for 50 years

energymetalnews.com

23 pointszx808038 comments

What's with the title, the current battery produces 100 microwatts, and there is no "smartphone" in the title.

And I assume the "63 nuclear isotopes" mentioned in the article refers to nickel-63, not actually only 63 isotopes...

not a very high quality source article indeed, first paragraph: "A Chinese startup has unveiled a new battery that it claims can generate electricity for 50 years with the need for charging or maintenance."

wauw, a battery that needs charging.

did they even read what they wrote?

Unless it's a perfectly legitimate output of ChatGPT or the likes.

100mW probably enough to idle a sizable % of phones on. One could definitely make a low powered phone that slowly recharges a super capacitor or regular battery while idling. Basically use the nuclear battery like a range-extender in a hybrid car, dumping power in, but not driving the phone.

100mW is probably enough indeed, but the battery in the source only does 100uW.

"placing 63 nuclear isotopes into a module smaller than a coin"

Whoever wrote this does not know what an isotope is. Also, the site's attempt to ban copy/paste is annoying.

Interesting product if real!

I first laughed after reading that sentence... I guess they are speaking about some amount of ⁶³Ni, which actually decays to copper as they say.

Might be broken cut-and-paste obscuring the meaning.

If you copy ⁶³Ni (written that way or using html <sup>) and the two programs involved share only fontless ASCII as format, the conversion via ASCII might leave 63Ni or 63 Ni (if the </sup> becomes a wordbreak); easy to misunderstand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betavoltaic_device

> In 2018 a Russian design based on 2-micron thick nickel-63 slabs sandwiched between 10 micron diamond layers was introduced. It produced a power output of about 1 μW at a power density of 10 μW/cm3. Its energy density was 3.3 kWh/kg. The half-life of nickel-63 is 100 years.

And there's nothing to suggest that much has changed in the last ~5 years. It's essentially a radiation source sandwiched in-between solar panels.

> Beijing-based Betavolt said its nuclear battery is the first in the world to realise the miniaturisation of atomic energy, placing 63 nuclear isotopes into a module smaller than a coin.

My guess is that this is 63 'modules', rather than 63 different isotopes?

> Betavoltaic nuclear batteries can be purchased commercially. Available devices include a 100 μW tritium-powered device weighing 20 grams

This will just about run an RTC, you would struggle to run an entire smart phone, which random sources seem to agree is about 2W minimum.

> The quest to miniaturise and commercialise nuclear batteries was taken up under China’s 14th Five-Year Plan designed to strengthen the country’s economy between 2021 and 2025, while research institutions in the US and Europe are also working on their development.

Here is your motivation for the bluff - companies under pressure to meet arbitrary 5-year plan goals set by the CCP [1].

My major concern would be in what happens to these batteries after use. This is not the kind of thing that should be thrown into landfill.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_five-year_plan_(Chi...

My guess is that this is 63 'modules', rather than 63 different isotopes?

My first guess was element 63, so an europium isotope, but now that you mentioned it, it might also just refer to nickel 63.

Fake news: battery producing electricity using beta decay aren't a new technology, are arounds for decades, those devices produce electricity in order of micro ampere/h, 1 / 1'000'000 of ampere, currents, so small can only fit to niche application, like preserve the status of few bytes of RAM. A phone needs million of time that current not only to operate but even to have a detectable recharge level increase. So article stating they can power or recharge phones and drones are pseudo-science and fake news, I'm reporting this because I observed a proliferation of articles with the same topic, this "50 years miracle battery", without reference, scientific documentation, tests, any paper with scientific value :

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38966352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38978085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38970438 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38980963 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38943144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38951104

maybe they are a scheme to deceive potential investors.

to be clear, it's not nuclear as we understand it usually, by having a fission reaction, but using the energy of the decaying radioactive isotopes concerted to electricity. The technology is used in space probes. The issue is that it is still radioactive, and I'm very wary to see an associated pollution if it's used by the general public

> to be clear, it's not nuclear as we understand it usually, by having a fission reaction, but using the energy of the decaying radioactive isotopes concerted to electricity.

Isn't radioactive decay a fission reaction?

Is there any mention of what kind of radioactive decay this is powered from? Based on the name, one might assume beta? This would also track with the "research done in the 20th Century" bit considering beta radiation is just electrons.

My point being - what impact does this have on the safety of the device? Any more than certain light sources containing mercury, for example.

Not sure about this particular device, but https://citylabs.net/technology-overview/ apparently makes use of tritium, which is betavoltaic based.

Just noticed for citylabs it says - "Base price starts at $5,250 per battery"

I'm curious what they'd be used for considering the very low power output and cost.

That sounds nice on paper but what if it e.g. burns up in an accident? Won't it pollute our environment with radioactive materials?

I think this is meant for pacemakers and such. Very little risk of it leaking since there is usually so much paperwork associated with corpses.

This won't work for populations that have been deemed expendable via mass bombing campaigns, so probably won't be certified for use in those sectors.

first time I heard of nuclear being used this way. Undeniably interesting, though obvious safety concerns!

Yeah cool tech, but if it's in a device that pulls a Samsung Note, you become an unwitting dirty bomb.

It seems like the kind of tech for industrial application anyway, one of them things that's just impractical for the consumer world.

Except Samsung Notes combusted because lithium-iom batteries can combust.

A phone powered this way wouldn't have any combustible spontaneously ignitable materials in it.

100 µW = 0.0001 W * (365×24) = 0.876 Wh per year. Which is about capacity of CR2032 cell. Regular good 18650 battery have capacity of ~12 Wh, so assuming no loss at all, single battery will last for 13 years. In real world, self-discharge will drain battery faster than that.

Discussion: "Tiny nuclear battery be commercialised?"[0] (27 points, 58 comments, 2 days ago) [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38943144

Hmm. Even if it emits only alpha radiation which is super easily shielded, wouldn't it cause some other emissions through bremsstrahlung? Not sure if I'd be happy with this.

But for implants I see the benefit of course. Never having to replace anything

It depends on the kintic energy of particles. If it's low enough I think the frequency of photons generated might be low enough to be safe.

Nothing to see here, delivers 100 µW while your phone needs more than 1000 times more.

I'd rather have to charge the smartphone battery everyday, than carrying radioactive material in my pocket.

Lots of things are radioactive. A banana for example.

You don't get a dangerous dose of radiation from a banana if you open it. Not sure about their battery...

You don’t open a battery while it’s in your pocket. Not sure about their banana…

You don't like bananas in your pocket? :D

If they are 3 volt I think you would most likely use them in parallel for more power, not in series.

This sounds too good to be true!

The catch seems to be delivering only 100 microwatts. Very far from powering a phone.

I think it's for sensors. With some capacitor and a smart sensor that powers on only after voltage exceeds some threshold and does the measurements and sends out the result in one short burst before energy runs out.

It's another Better Battery Bulletin.

Someday, one will be worth reading

100mw

currently 1000 times less: 100 µW

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