'Dumbphones' make a comeback: 'No one calls me anymore' | Hacker News Reader

'Dumbphones' make a comeback: 'No one calls me anymore'

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Propping dumbphones up as cool is a whole genre

* https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/style/flipping-out.html

* https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/magazine/is-a-dumber-phon...

* https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/15/style/teens-social-media....

* https://time.com/3318573/flip-phones-millennials-iphone6/

* https://www.wsj.com/articles/gen-z-flip-phones-might-be-onto...

Enough to make you wonder if someone (Nokia?) is deploying 'the submarine' [0] ?

[0] http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Yup. Others?

Ask HN: Has anyone here dropped smartphones and used a dumb phone before? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37859015 - Oct 2023 (21 comments)

I’d Love a Dumb Phone, But - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37175154 - Aug 2023 (4 comments)

Ask HN: Suitable Dumbphones and device combos (2023) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37047045 - Aug 2023 (2 comments)

Ask HN: Anyone started using a dumbphone recently? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36920537 - July 2023 (9 comments)

What Is a 'Dumb Phone' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36444681 - June 2023 (4 comments)

Gen Zers Are Snapping Up Flip Phones. They Might Be onto Something - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35793886 - May 2023 (3 comments)

Ask HN: How can I enable a dumber phone to carry sometimes? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34951951 - Feb 2023 (5 comments)

The Quest for a Dumber Phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34415704 - Jan 2023 (200 comments)

Flip Phones: Gen Z has a new ‘vintage’ technology to obsess over - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34391223 - Jan 2023 (9 comments)

‘Luddite’ Teens - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34004822 - Dec 2022 (283 comments)

Am I an idiot for wanting a dumber phone? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32238566 - July 2022 (90 comments)

I used a dumb phone for 6 months. here’s what I learned - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31985598 - July 2022 (2 comments)

Why are so many people turning to ‘dumbphones’? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30840996 - March 2022 (4 comments)

Not smart but clever? The return of 'dumbphones' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30779199 - March 2022 (98 comments)

My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30007742 - Jan 2022 (138 comments)

Dumb Phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28246636 - Aug 2021 (153 comments)

Nokia flip phones are back - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20888753 - Sept 2019 (1 comment)

Request HN: Can Someone Make a Dumb Phone for USA? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19548128 - April 2019 (37 comments)

Ask HN: What is the best “dumb” phone? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19423434 - March 2019 (217 comments)

Ask HN: What “dumbphones” are available and viable in the US? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17641613 - July 2018 (171 comments)

Why I’m Using a Flip Phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17623104 - July 2018 (266 comments)

Is a Dumber Phone a Better Phone? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17093850 - May 2018 (137 comments)

Dumber phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16912679 - April 2018 (343 comments)

Why a Dumb Phone Is a Smart Move - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15093145 - Aug 2017 (2 comments)

It’s time to bring back the dumb phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13530657 - Jan 2017 (45 comments)

Iconic RAZR phone is making a comeback - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11746371 - May 2016 (1 comment)

Show HN: Dumbphone – Turn your smartphone into a dumbphone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8153105 - Aug 2014 (69 comments)

Some young adults disconnecting with 'dumbphones' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7460630 - March 2014 (205 comments)

Why I Miss My Dumbphone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6553684 - Oct 2013 (3 comments)

It's a Dumbphone, But It's the Nicest Dumbphone You Can Buy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6303151 - Aug 2013 (189 comments)

Why I Still Use a Dumb Phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6067474 - July 2013 (60 comments)

The dumbphone strikes back - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3533120 - Jan 2012 (61 comments)

heh, that's a much more exhaustive list than mine

Your links pointed me in the right directions!

I have started cold calling some of my friends over the last year or so, and it's always great. I will sometimes talk for over an hour with a friend I haven't spoken with in a few months+. A normal phone call has kind of become a novel thing, at least in my generation (Z) and the general absurdity of it makes it even more fun.

I agree very strongly with what the author mentions about how we strive for hyperconnectivity with our smart phones, and I have made a goal for myself to abandon mine by the end of the year. I haven't fully decided if I'm going to carry around a dumb phone or not, but I am probably going to not carry any phone for at least some time.

I have also started texting and calling with JMP Chat, which bridges to XMPP, so you can easily use any computer for all my communication.

I just came out of prison, where I stayed 22 months in another country. I also had, besides another phone, a Nokia. When I left prison and turned it on, it started up and worked. It kept the charge nearly two years. I kid you not!

I have a flip phone myself, but it's not really a dumbphone. Articles like these don't really go deep into what dumbphones are even like nowadays. Usually, they run Android and come with all the standard features like internet and email. Hypothetically, I can even sideload apps onto this thing. The specs are obviously weak, but still a lot compared to a true dumbphone. My phone has 512MB of RAM and a 4GB SSD, but there's also another model of this phone that has 1GB of RAM and an 8GB SSD. All in all, true dumbphones are dead.

I wish I could buy a real, high quality feature phone. The only apps Id enjoy is a calendar, a flashlight, a quality camera, and -maybe- navigation.

None of my asks are attention drains.

I still use a sony ericsson elm daily, no problem so far. maybe you could still find one online

Which phone?

ZTE Cymbal 2. I forgot to mention in my original comment, but the salesman said that it was one of the more popular phones in the store, but mostly because of the 65+ demographic. I don't know if the article factored that in when they talked about the rising popularity of dumb phones.

I didn't buy a smart phone until about five years ago. I don't like them. But, they're ubiquitous, and it's pretty hard to be without one and function in the world. The goal should not be to pretend they don't exist, but to reckon with your addiction or 'hyperconnectivity' issues and be able to deal with having one. They aren't going away, unfortunately, and in the future the world will continue to assume you have one, and expect you to use it.

Serious question: why should I care about the world expecting me to have a smartphone?

I can't answer why you should care. Maybe you're more tolerant than me. But I can list a few ways in which not having a smartphone can be more annoying:

It's part of most multifactor authentication systems, as has already been mentioned. You could get by with SMS-based MFA, but you really should not as it is demonstrably insecure. In the future, these other methods will likely just go away as well, as they should.

At some point during COVID, a lot of restaurants stopped giving you printed menus, and expect you to use a QR code to access a menu on the web. Some provide printed menus upon request, but I've been to places that just don't have them anymore.

Here's a personal one: On a road trip a while ago, I stopped at a gas station to buy a map, only to discover that they don't sell them. This blew my mind: growing up, this is just what you did when you were in a state far from home, and you could count on any gas station having a folded paper map of the state in it. I don't think you can count on being able to navigate that way anymore, so you'd either have to plan ahead and buy maps, or buy a dedicated GPS unit, or use a smart phone for navigation.

Later on that same road trip, I stopped in a small town and wanted to walk around for a bit. I discovered that all the parking spaces cost money (fine) but that there were no parking meters or kiosks to pay at. Just a sign with a QR code on it, presumably pointing to a website or app download where I had to pay. In theory I could have pulled my laptop out of my suitcase, connected it to wifi somehow (not via tethering, but maybe a nearby coffee shop or something), and used the webcam instead, but come on.

My insurance company offers a "service" where they track your driving via a smartphone app. This is an optional service, and naturally I told them to screw off. It is not hard to imagine, however, this becoming not-optional, or being penalized for not submitting to it in the future.

Oh, here's another one: my last employer bought me a smartphone on day one of my job there. Not avoidable. I did not stay at that job very long, but I don't think it's all that unusual for companies to just assume you're going to use a smartphone and be in touch with them.

Thanks for pointing out these points. The people who are planning to ditch a smartphone completely, please explain how are you going to overcome these problems.

I will give an abridged version since I'm about to head out:

For MFA: I have an OTP client on my PC, as well as the ability to receive SMS using JMP Chat. MFA does not add much security for me since I already use long, randomly generated passwords from my local password manager, so I only turn it on if a service requires it for some reason.

For restaurants: I will tell the waiter that I cannot scan a QR code. If they don't have paper menus because they seriously expect me to have a phone, then I seriously expect that they have a phome that can scan it for me.

Navigation: this is a hard one for me. I have never driven in an unfamiliar location without a GPS. I am trying to minimize driving in favor of public transit anyways, but my roommate has a GPS unit that they said I can have. Will have to experiment with it.

Parking: this just seems so unfathomably dumb, even with a phone I don't think I'd park there.

Insurance: I'd change companies if mine required something like that.

My partner and I are having our first kid. We were given a sheet with a timeline of the various appointments and check-ins. Each appointment had an associated QR code where bookings could be made. No other details, e.g. contact details, were on it. Not a problem for us, having smartphones, but it did give me pause; surely there are folk who don't have a phone that can scan these, or a phone at all. What extra BS do these people have to go through to do something that would take me 5s with my smartphone? This is only one example, but still, it is an example of how disadvantaged people are even more disadvantaged because of the expectation that everyone has a smartphone. Probably just an oversight on the sheet author's part but is it one born out of their expectations around smartphone adoption? Maybe

That said, maybe there was a sheet without QR codes and the nurse made a call that we looked like we had smartphones and gave us the QR code one. Can't rule that out.

Yeah I'd be totally screwed in that scenario. I've been screwed once before by QR-only things, at a restaurant whose menu was exclusively online, and they didn't know the URL because "it's in the QR code". Like... okay I guess I just won't eat today.

The world is getting to a point where the only way you’re going to be able to do business or any type of transaction is through a smart phone. If you don’t have a smart phone, it’s gonna be very difficult for you to function in the world at some point.

I have not experienced this. I bought my first smart phone last year and I literally just use it for voice and text. Could this be a big city thing? I saw someone mention paying for parking lots but they are all free in the town not far from me. There's no public transit here.

I'm very likely going back to a flip phone, probably something like a CAT unless there is a tougher one that works on T-Mobile.

This is good argument to get a dumbphone and be a thorn in the side of techno-capitalists' vision of "progress." It's all about measuring metrics and tracking consumers in the pursuit of squeezing a few more dollars out of us

- paying for parking in private lots in my area is becoming impossible without a phone app

An often repeated example is financial institutions. Some require the use of their app for 2FA, for example. Think further along these lines and you'll undoubtedly come up with other examples.

I have an OTP client and SMS on my PC, so I'm set there.

You shouldn’t care if you have no use case for one. Not sure if you’re attempting to bait people into argument or if you just want to flex how much of a Luddite you are.

I made a top level comment before this with more context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37875311

I asked because I wanted to know the answer.

Dumbphones a.k.a feature phones, are perfect for children, especially young children that need a means to call their parents, but not a means to browse the internet, engage in malformed social interaction, or game for hours at a time.

My iPhone has not run or vibrated since I turned both those functions off about 10 years ago. My phone is for my convenience, not others.

I would love to have a modern "dumbphone", but with ability to build own apps, either with J2ME or similar technology.

So what I did:

Trying UBports. Got an used phone from this list: https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io (in my case, a Google Nexus 5, bought it 4 years ago, I think - I'd get something newer today) and get a prepaid sim-card without internet.

I do my updates and app installations at home when it connects to my router. Without internet, I never use the browser, don't have chat/social media apps installed. Maps work offline (download the regions you need at home beforehand). Music is stored on the device as well.

If you need an overview of available apps, this is the store available on the phone: https://open-store.io

For app development (I don't do that though) I think this is a good starting point: https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/appdev/ and probably https://forums.ubports.com/category/35/app-development

I both loved and hated J2ME. It kinda had what you needed though, apart from the often "openly" idiotic device implementations that were kind of the norm. Only Sony Ericsson had a great one (fast, high code quality, sane security policies/prompts). Nokia came at second place with medium performance, high code quality and outright user-hostile security policies/prompts.

Consider getting a PinePhone. The A64 CPU on there is so old that web browsing is painful, but you can still use it as a music player, check email, and hack together whatever little apps you want with your Linux framework of choice.

Alternatively, consider Librem 5, if you need more performance.

The sweet spot for me for a while was the iPod Touch. Could load stuff into Instapaper to read on the subway, take notes, write emails, and otherwise be left alone by the Net so I could peoplewatch instead.

Now I think the main excuse to have a phone is the camera, and I'm looking at pocketable digital cameras on eBay.

I would love if when buying an iPhone I was able to specify an entire class of apps that I could not install. For example, I could be banned at an OS level from a curated suite of social media apps. They could also make each app report the domains that it connects to so that the ban could continue at a DNS level. Apple is in a great place to do this because of their walled garden App Store model and withholding of root access from users. To undo it you would have to go into a store to use their proprietary software to change the type of apps you're allowed to install.

Totally I would love this feature. Even to the point where you could use reverse incentives. Pay a fee for having fewer apps. Pay for freedom.

Honestly, I had to go a week without a smartphone earlier this year after I was mugged. I can do nearly everything on my laptop, so I didn't think it would be a big deal.

I utterly hated it. I didn't like not being able to check my email when necessary, I didn't like the fact that I had to find clever workarounds for 2FA, I didn't really have a way of listening to music portably without Youtube music. Even though I'm not huge fan of the Pixel 7, I was still able to breath a huge sigh of relief once I activated it.

>I didn't really have a way of listening to music portably without Youtube music

I mean, you can for sure still buy a cheap MP3 player like you could back in the day. Sure, they're less popular but they definitely still exist.

I still prefer my iPods to listen to music and audio books these days... Way less distraction and much more battery life :-)

But I don't really think `Dumbphones` will ever make a real comeback... it's more like a specific niche, that has to exist for specific people.

I'm sure it's awful when it happens non-voluntarily as for you, but challenging some of those urges on one's own time/inclination is a big part of discovering the value of digital hygiene.

Going without a smartphone entirely is more than most people need, but a lot of people experience unattributed health effects from having constant distraction and stimulation in their pocket. We've almost certainly evolved to rest and just stare at the horizon throughout the day, in a way that many people can no longer even imagine.

There was a meme on Twitter/Reddit a little while back where people were absolutely astonished that some guy was traveling without a phone or book or anything. In a world beseiged by depression, anxiety, obesity, etc the inconceivability of "just chilling" certainly seems like a related point of concern.

That's possible, but I do get a little annoyed at the moralism that people display on Reddit about this, acting like smartphones are the downfall of humanity and we'd be better off if they all went away (edit: to be clear, not accusing you of that!).

Fundamentally, I really really like having GPS on me at basically all times, I like having access to pretty much every song ever written wherever I go, I like being able to read and compose emails on the fly, I like having my TODO tasks synced between my computer and my phone. While not perfect, I do think that smartphones increase my quality of life.

Yeah, I think the realist future has us learn to treat digital stimulation as an intuitive hygiene thing: You can drink, but maybe don't start at 8am. You don't have to bathe every day, but go too long and you're not going to have a lot of friends. Flossing would be great, but at least brush your teeth. Go ahead and enjoy ice cream, but not for every meal.

We just don't have the cultural experience for anybody's specific suggestions to have much weight yet.

I remember when you could do 2fa with a landline number

I like talking on the phone so much more. It’s so much easier to get your point across and so much quicker. Plus I hate typing to text on the phone.

I am the opposite, I feel phone calls are mostly waste of time (except when connecting with a loved one), and text are better is most cases.

It’s so much easier to clarify doubts and concerns over the phone for me. I guess most of it stems from my intense dislike of typing out whole paragraphs on the phone screen.

I don't want a nokia, I want a smartphone without the malware (ie FB, X, IG) because it's not's not the phone, it's the social apps. I like being able to take photos, even watch video when I need to. It's useful to hail an uber, store airplane tickets, and all the functionality that the good apps bring. You just need to fortitude to keep the bad apps off your phone.

The problem is not the uber app. Its the browser. Right now I should be napping for a long evening. Im reading HN instead

LOL. I am currently carrying this one: https://www.telekomweb.de/nokia6310i

And when I see that it sells now for USD 130, maybe I should buy some more. I tell you, the battery lasts ages.

I have been using dumb phones for years. Great battery life and nice physical buttons.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JHXCgaqPSXARvGbw6

I was the first person in my family to own a mobile. I talk to everyone I can on it, but I find my friends who grew up with a mobile or smartphone talk little, preferring to send an SMS, or through an app.

I've thought about making the switch for a longg time. What I worry about is:

* Will they work on all cell towers, i.e. are all towers backward compatible? Can anyone confirm? * Losing out on whatsapp and google maps.

If this idea gets too popular, we'll have to invent texting.

Perhaps someone could come up with a clever system for using a dumbphone's numpad to type efficiently...

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