The Quest for a Dumber Phone
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Our society expects you to have and use a smart phone for nearly everything.
This might be less annoying if it meant only new functions or supplemented old things, but in my experience it's the opposite. It's often the most simple low-fi things we have been doing for ages, that have been overhauled to require a smartphone, app, and data plan. It's hard to be looked at as 'the person complicating things', when everybody else expects you to carry a luxury item (and an expensive monthly service bill), just to perform a basic task, like paying a bill, or reading a menu.
I'm not one to wander around expecting society to cater to my own needs, but I openly admit that I find this Twilight Zone-like first-world problem (What do you mean, you can't use our app?) the most infuriating.
With that said, you can still get by in most situations, but I don't see the above getting better on into the future, unless there is some cultural revolution about how view and use technology.
In some countries this could be an accurate description, though. And I agree with the overall sentiment, I would like it to be easier to get through my day without using a smartphone.
That being said, it really doesn't have to be all that expensive. Sure, if you buy the newest iPhone every year and get a high-end Verizon plan, that'll cost some dough. But you can get a used or low-end smartphone and a cheap plan - they're out there: https://www.tomsguide.com/us/best-cheap-cell-phone-plans,rev...
Especially when they're a broken mess.
This summer I visited LA, and at one restaurant they had a QR-code menu. They didn't require installing any app, it just sent you to some web page.
I had good service (outside, LTE, full bars) but it was impossible for me to see the menu. The thing would never load. Sometimes it would somewhat load, but when scrolling and trying to pick things (it was an ungodly mess of drop-down lists) it would disappear again.
> But you can get a used or low-end smartphone and a cheap plan
The above was on an iPhone 7, which I admit is "old" (but it is up-to-date software wise). So, I wonder what you mean by "cheap low-end phone", and how that would compare with mine. Especially since we have some low-end Android phones at work, which are "current models". And the scrolling in the settings app, for example, feels much less smooth than on my geriatric phone. They just lag all the time. My phone basically never does that, which is the reason I'm not particularly looking to get a new one.
This was the first time I couldn't have my phone do what I needed. The site worked well-enough on my friend's 11 pro.
In other words, we're all spoiled brats ;)
More expensive ones are not significantly better, either, unless you pick a brand known for keeping up with security updates.
Recently moved and didn't have internet service setup yet. I got an unlimited data bundle from them for £17 for 30 days. Felt like a pretty good deal, and it didn't get throttled at all. Latency was a slight issue with zoom calls though.
I get 15gb for 10€ from them.
After being given a few years ago an old, pre google raising its ugly head samsung, which I loved, I went on to purchase four more cheap phones on sale, the last two were merely to install apps that needed a much newer OS. My experience with the newer and cheaper phones were not the best. The last being damn right nasty with poor ability to properly clean up the phone's limited amount of storage, and permissions set that no app (I use) could write to the sd card. Sadly if that was the only small issue I might have considered it worthwhile to root the device. Reset ultimately freed up the internal storage space and it's now an excellent hotspot device and phone ... if I think to change the settings back to accept calls.
Before applying any subsidies for low income people, you can get a perfectly usable smartphone for under $40 and unlimited data cell service (slow but usable for basic tasks) for $10/month. An iPhone, with service, can be had for a total of under $50/month.
These aren't luxury items anymore.
Cash and bank accounts are two systems in parallel. Cars and public transport (or bicycles, or walking) are systems in parallel. Good clothing and poor clothing are systems in parallel.
A physical driver license and a digital driver license are systems in parallel. Banking/services on a mobile phone and visiting a physical store are systems in parallel.
Where is the bad analogy?
Pen and paper? Obviously. Smartphone? Internet? Phone?
With that said, expecting anyone to shell out x dollars/month, so they can pay to park, or scan a QR code - rather than tapping a plastic card, or handing them a piece of paper - doesn't really feel like technological advancement.
For clarity, I believe there are many other things that Smartphones do, which definitively make life simpler. (I believe technology should make life easier, or better - or at least be useful.) And, I even think it makes sense to have certain utilities combined that don't really provide an advantage alone, such as: If you can pay with a phone and not need to carry another payment method, sure - why not just pay with a phone?
Again, the point I was trying to make originally was if you choose not to use a smartphone, you will run into situations where a stupidly simple process has been not supplemented (or improved), but totally replaced with 'you need a phone and data plan'.
< Disappointed Muhammad Sarim Akhtar Meme >
This is a real frustration point that anyone considering living without a smartphone will run into.
And that's before government subsidies, which can lower monthly service cost AND device cost to $0 - depending on state/income/age.
Recently I caved and bought a smartphone, but I remember a time before that when some friends and I went to a bar.
Someone paid the bill and asked everyone to Venmo him their share. Lacking any immediate way to do that, I reached into my wallet and handed him some cash.
He looked a bit perplexed. "Oh, don't worry about it."
Supporting these people are one reason why we won't get beyond SMS based two factor authentication for the foreseeable future.
I have a smartphone and this annoys me to no end. No I don't want to zoom through your menu in some PDF format which doesn't render nicely on my phone.
I have left restaurants because of this, and told them why.
Let's say you have kids and you want to use any of the family settings (e.g. Screen Time) Apple, Google, etc provide for an iPad or Chromebook: All app based.
I happen to use an old iPad just as an admin panel for these cases, but the almost complete lack of any desktop or web interface is stupidly depressing.
In my case, I have a 2017 Pixel 2 XL running LineageOS, with a text only home screen launcher (OLauncher). I only have SMS, phone/contacts, camera, open street maps, KOReader, Music, Podcasts, Notes, and Calculator. That's it. Everything else has been purged or disabled, including the web browser, via ADB.
I don't really use it all unless I'm driving. I wrote about my setup here: https://chuck.is/phone
Dumbing down a smart phone doesn't fix the size and delicateness of the device either. I essentially want a tiny durable smartphone, ie size of an iPhone 3g.
My biggest thing is I hate how important this device is while also being unwieldy and easy to break. The only entertainment I use on my phone is twitter and even then I find it easy to stop scrolling.
I want the abilities of a smart phone, but something I can keep on me without worrying about it, like wearing a watch or how I can throw around my wallet.
Ugh, agreed. Pockets aren't getting bigger!
Set up Apple Watch for a family member - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211768
Bought a dumb phone but found it lacking for your exact reasons -- no GPS, crappy camera, and texting using the number pad was tedious as all hell.
Gave up, got a Pixel 7, might think about flashing it.
Not surprising. My experience across a few different Android devices over the years is just about all USB-related functionality is a flaky mess, and that includes things like ADB and installing new ROMs. How it's flaky varies from device to device which makes it extra fun.
I recently started having issues with the data functionality of the port. I can't get ADB to run at all, it will only charge. The power button also doesn't work so I've had to set it to shut off the screen by holding down the "Recents" button.
> Bought a dumb phone but found it lacking for your exact reasons
I like the idea of dumb phones, but I don't want to have to buy separate things like a digital camera, GPS, mp3 player, etc. Seems like it's just adding more complexity.
My anxiety with ditching Android to LineageOS is the loss of all the software-defined image quality in the Camera app.
What has been your experience using your phone camera with Lineage? As in is it good enough to also capture some family moments or do you use it just as functional camera to take pictures of something you need to remember?
https://buy.jolla-devices.com/
Or even installing CalyxOS? You can get a Pixel 5a 5G phone (selling on ebay for under $200) and then install CalyxOS on it.
I'm going to grab one of the Jolla devices and give it a test drive next month. I think there's decent alternative out there where you can still maintain your privacy without having to step all the way down to a "dumb phone".
That claim is a bit nuanced, IMO. Before I finally chose to move to iPhones, I tried my best to remove distractions from my Android phone, and I failed. iOS is less customisable, but comes with a configuration/ecosystem baseline that's far easier to tolerate, and insofar as it is flexible, the changes are far less painful than bringing an Android to that level.
Again, that's just my experience. YMMV.
I got a Pixel 5 few years ago (seemingly the smallest form factor Android device), didn't install any apps, removed a bunch of stock apps I didn't need, and turned off notifications for everything beside incoming calls/messages. After that, I just trained myself to avoid using search/the browser unless necessary and to do something else when the itch arises to check the phone for something.
My daily work is in forestry, as a brush cutter -- occasionally, GPS would be necessary (unavoidable even). For 95% of the cases, though, I've found a workaround by postponing the map-related tasks (e.g. making sure I understand the borders of a particular forest subcompartment correctly) to the next day and hand-drawing the shape of the subcompartment from an online map to a piece of paper. With the drawing in hand, I can usually accurately confirm the borders by visual observation. Once more, this probably only works for simple blue collars, not for guys that need to do more on-site planning.
Other than that, I occasionally miss a tolerable camera (for digitizing expenditure checks) and QR code reading ability.
All in all, living with old dumb phone is fun. Zero cost if you break it or ruin it in the forest (mud!). I hate my current Nokia, though -- but can't ditch it because it still works, lol. I still miss my Nokia 3310 (the original one), which I used every day for 12(!) years in a row, starting in around 2001 as a high school student and finally letting it go in around 2013 when I was a young father. It was one hell of a phone.
My current favorite oldscool dumb phones are the "senior phones" with huge buttons. This ZTE s202 was really enjoyable to use (belonged to my grandpa), and the no-bs design somehow feels really elegant: https://i.hinnavaatlus.ee/p/1200/99/43/S20220must__6ee8.jpg
This is just incorrect IMO. I work in marketing, I'm tech-savvy for a normal person but by no means an IT enthusiast, and there are plenty of business, history, economics, science, culture, etc. links and discussions on HN.
It's definitely not usual and it made me curious. Most of the people I meet who talk and understand IT also work in IT, or at least did once in their life.
I've never met a blue-collar worker who seems to understand IT. That doesn't mean that I'm saying that blue-collar workers are dumb or can't ever understand IT, the venn diagram is just very slim in my experience.
Sorry for asking I guess, I'm a bit confused by the fact that now two people have questioned my question, I didn't mean to be rude.
> People's backstory can be more complicated than most people expect.
That's why I asked...
I really don't get why now a couple of people have told me that I'm wrong. I'm talking about my own, real-life experience, not some kind of mental, non-existing argument.
I am not saying that IT can't be a diverse field and that only IT people can know about IT - I'm saying that in MY life, I have never met someone who knows IT who doesn't also actually work in IT or did at some point in their life. So I was curious why an IT person started to work as a brush cutter, or how they got into IT etc.
This made me curious about this persons background. These details just created a very interesting image in my head - brush cutter by day, Free-/NetBSD hacker during the night. If they don't want to go into it, fine, just figured I might as well ask.
Fine?
As for BSD, Perl, Tiny Core Linux, Plan 9, etc -- I suppose I have a long-time intellectual interest in various "fringe" IT topics, computers as a tool for thinking, and repurposing old computers and ultra-minimal OSes in a meaningful way. I'm a horrible coder, but I love programming languages, lol. (I would have probably made a decent linguist, syntax or spoken language researcher, but oh well.)
Obviously, HN is an excellent place for folks like me -- people who are (always?) slightly lost in life. Unable to make big bucks (this is fine!), but still intellectually curious. It really is a perfect online environment, and IMO a remarkably good embodiment of free speech and democracy. Thanks HN, and thanks dang, for the excellent moderation!
I'm relieved about that!
Thanks for telling your story, glad that I asked :) And good to hear that you sound like you found your way.
Really slow UI; too much of everything. Not even close to the simplicity of the 3310.
Conversely, if you turn off data, there are not many possibilities to spend huge amounts of time on your phone. (And yes, there are still plenty of useful offline smartphone apps.)
The good news is that you don't need to set a very high bar for a better use of this free time. Read a book. Go on a small walk around the block. Take care of your garden, if you have one. Do simple chores. Do nothing at all. Almost anything is better than smartphone usage.
That might sound obvious and borderline stupid, but it really feels like I had forgotten that for a while. This insight made cutting down my smartphone time dramatically easier and much more successful. Because while I had strategies to replace bigger chunks of social media consumption with reading books, going for walks and other hobbies, you can't really read a book if you just have a short downtime (like waiting in a queue). So I pulled my phone out to bridge that little bit of downtime which eventually always crept back into more and more situations until my screen time ended up right back where it started.
Realizing that I can just 'do nothing' made a huge difference. I also read a paper that found that boredom plays a huge role in creative thinking, which made it easier for me to do nothing because it suddenly felt like that was a productive activity.
It's a little sad that 'taking care of myself' wasn't a good enough reason to accept boredom into my life and that I was only able to do it once I believed it would have an effect on my productivity, but it worked very well and I have yet to see a downside.
I am sleeping better, I am more emotionally balanced, I feel like my problem solving skills have improved and I'm slowly, but noticeably, increasing my attention span.
All in all I can highly recommend reducing mindless doomscrolling as well as accepting more boredom into your life.
This was definitely only partially effective, probably because I already had bad habits from my laptop. OTOH, to this day I do have at least a rudimentary deeper reading/writing flow for my phone I can focus on without too much conscious effort, so it wasn't useless.
My conclusion is that most of us probably would benefit from either intentional choices or self-imposed restrictions... but most of us could also probably benefit more from a combination of both.
This sentence is a good tldr for the book, Atomic Habits.
- Punkt MP02 (Pigeon): small black & white Android phone with a non-standard launcher. Doesn't support MMS on Google Fi, which is needed to participate with friends & family (USA), so it sits on a shelf.
- Unihertz Atom: tiny Android phone, storage chip began dying within 3 months. Supports MMS, but my previous company's MDM locked it out due to a lack of recent security updates and their phone plan required a login to receive MMS!
- For a truly "dumb" phone: `quietude.sh disable all`
- Disable distractions but keep the app store: `quietude.sh disable distractions`
I delete all app that I waste time in, but keep one that are useful. (I won't blow two hours scrolling Lyft, and it's very helpful sometimes) I then set screentime permissions to block websites I don't want to use (like reddit), and prevent app downloads. I set a screentime password and give it to my partner.
This way I get all the "benefits" of a smartphone with none of the scrolling and time wasting. It's also very easy to switch it back to a full smartphone, get the password from my partner and turn off screentime. I'll do this when I travel internationally for work.
Hope this setup helps some others.
I love having a smartphone because it's a cybernetic appliance. It's awesome. I just don't need it constantly occupying my attention. It's annoying how many apps, even system ones, that want to show notifications all the time. I wish iOS supported an affirmative toggle, let me disable all notifications by default and then let me turn them on one by one. Do not disturb by default and let me affirmatively enable "ok to disturb". I filed ERs to that effect when I was at Apple but I'm sure they went to the Future/NTBF black hole.
I ask because I've been trying to make this system work for me, but find that the app update flow (partner unlocks phone -> update apps -> partner locks phone) always breaks and I end up with an unrestricted phone.
The fact that you can't allow updates while also not allowing installation of new apps is a huge blocker here for me.
If I really need to know the answer to something, I will ask Siri. And most things I just add to my to-do list for looking up the information later.
It's been great!
As it stands, smartphones are the worst of both worlds though: the form factor of what is essentially a legacy communication device, but none of the human interfaces necessary to make it useful enough to really take advantage of all its computing power (and often also its software cripples the device unless you're running a custom android ROM). What people hate about smartphones isn't that they're constantly plugged in but that they have a device on them all the time that is basically designed to turn the user into the ideal consumer: a passive addict with no attention span. If it was more common to have access to portable hardware that is designed to empower users being creative and productive, maybe it'd be a different story.
But then again, I think most human beings probably want exactly what they're getting with smartphones and are miserable and alienated at the human condition itself of being so susceptible to seeking out low effort short term dopamine feedback loops.
Something like what? A small laptop is little more than a display attached to a thin keyboard. I'm not sure how you'd get something much smaller while retaining a physical keyboard and still being reasonably useable for programming.
The case has a front cover that opens like a book and converts into a stand. There is a weak magnet embedded inside the case so that when you close it, it sticks.
It turns out the bluetooth keyboard will also stick to this magnet! So I just stick it on there when I go out, and carry them around like they're a single unit. When I want to type something I pull it off, convert the tablet case into a stand and have a very serviceable laptop-like experience. Now if only it was running a proper Linux distro instead of Android...
Only drawback for your use case is the programming part. Though you could also get a small Samsung or Lenovo 8" Android tablet which would give you much more flexibility. There's also the 8" laptops from a few niche companies, though they will probably be thicker than tablet + keyboard case and wouldn't have the same battery life or cellular options.
Smallest, easily available device I can think of in this form factor is a 7" Amazon Fire with the Zagg hinged keyboard case. It's slow, has so-so battery life, and you'd still need to get a cellular connection elsewhere. But it's about the size of a VHS tape and it's pocketable. I had one for a while because I wanted a cheap tiny laptop. Fire tablets are easy to turn into mostly generic Android machines so it would be useful.
So I decided that it's my phone and I'm the one who decides how to use it.
I have a reasonably new iPhone. I spend maybe 15 minutes a day on it (excluding navigation), total.
I have removed apps I don't use. I disabled Siri, FaceID, most notifications, and location is turned off unless I'm using maps. I have one page on my home screen and there are maybe a dozen apps on it (and that still includes a few I have never used so I could pare down further).
closed source.
That's right, closed source services.
If we were able to write our own minimal Messenger, Whatsapp, Signal, Viber, etc. clients without fear of getting a cease and desist letter from a trillion dollar company we could easily sideload them into any phone with an internet connection.
Phones are meant to be used for communication, but communication is not SMSs or emails anymore, it's a bunch of proprietary services which dictate what platforms we can use to access them.
That’s why I’ve really big hopes for Mudita: they open-sourced their whole OS (I didn’t checked the code but it seems to be fully on github).
My biggest problem with dumbphones is that, in Belgium, nearly all banks now require you to use their app. (my solution so far: keeping an old smartphone with broken screen in a drawer, only for banking purposes).
Also, I realized that my use is completely different while traveling: I’ve an app for belgian railway, I synchronize PDF tickets to my phone and I also need the companion app for my bike GPS. My solution so far: using the Hisense A5, with eink screen. No google, most apps don’t work but bike GPS works great. Problem is that Firefox and Protonmail also work great, which is not a minimal phone anymore.
Seems like the problem is the law and legal system being abused to prevent adversarial interoperability. The official clients being closed source doesn't change anything.
In general, I agree with many commenters here. Separate devices with dedicated purposes tend to do a better job, and smartphones are designed to be both useful and addictive. As a result, I view the smartphone as a very dangerous tool. It can be used to great effectiveness, and it can become a blight on society.
When I was a child, I dreamed of a computer roughly the size of beeper that had no screen. Instead, I thought people would have a headset similar to Apple's wired earbuds with a microphone and we'd compute via voice with an internet connection to fetch data. Sadly, we're here 30 years later and there's still no sign of such a future. Amazon tried, Apple is trying, Google is trying, and no one is winning in that space. Apparently, it's both hard and unwanted. Today, I think my idea was naive, because such a device would likely play a minute thirty of ads before giving you the result of your query, and I would end up tossing the thing out the window of a moving car.
they still use a smaller display they keep in their pocket for visual content, but it exists as an accessory to view things queued up by the voice interface
I love the idea and the approach, I wish there was a way I can use this on a real subway (in the movie there seemed to be a lot more distance between people/users)
I was quite fond of the Japanese vision of future, where there is an item/gadget/accessory for everything. That way, people could choose to which degree they want to interact with their technology.
But here we are, stuck in the IoT software-focused world.
One day I noticed I have some Thought Problems, and after thinking about it I realized that most of my daily interactions take place with the same two devices.
Doing work on the same computer you game on, deal with family drama, communicate with co-workers and family, etc. takes its toll-- there's never any new stimulus, just living in the same 10'x10' cube playing with the same two toys for years on end. When you have a particularly stressful interaction with either, you're still forced to continue using it. (No wonder the kids are miserable. We replaced toys with smartphones.)
Things improved when I broke away to console gaming, set up a dedicated work computer, and did personal stuff on another. DSLR for pictures instead of phone. Moved away from taking notes on the computer and do data/object modeling with physical objects (anything from index cards to Legos). Etc. The only thing I use my phone for these days is reading news on the toilet, which is apt because it's all the same shit to flush either way.
I would actually kill myself if I had to spend any more of my time interacting with the world through a singular device. It's not a life worth living.
It's pretty nice because I still have Bluetooth calls in my car and navigation in a pinch. I can still stream music and ask Google to look things up for me.
Actual calls on the watch are fine, but I do keep a pair of bluetooth headphones on me so I don't have to take business calls on speakerphone.
If texting is your addiction, technically this doesn't solve it but it doesn't increase the friction so maybe it's less of a temptation. I don't text that much so it's not a big deal to me. Doomscrolling is my downfall and fortunately not really doable on a watch.
It had seemed like stand-alone watches were nearly there, but not quite the last time I dug into it. But it works for you?
Honestly I think using an Android phone with minimal apps, or having two profiles, one for work, one for play/weekends makes the most sense. And on iPhone using screen time to force your grip from app vices makes more sense than the self punishment of these phones.
That said my ADHD makes me want to buy one of these https://skysedge.com/unsmartphones/RUSP/index.html
That's expensive for a phone with basically zero features...
Why not just buy a nokia 3310 (the new one) for around 60eur, where you get a better, faster phone, with basically the same limitations as any other of the dumbphones, but it's cheaper and works faster and has a better screen? Also, the ergonomics are better, dual sim, sd card slot for music... and again, no apps, no emails, no notifications.. just a phone as it used to be (well.. with music and bluetooth).
Whether or not that's a feature that resonates with you is, of course, another story!
For me I have the money, would like to vote with it by supporting a company aligned with my interests, and don't mind paying that premium. You might have different finances and prefer the $60 EUR option, and that's fine too.
If you check out Jose's channel (from the article), he reviews tons of these phones and there's likely a sweet spot in there for most people that are curious.
I agree about the driving thing... maybe nokia n95 needs a new release too :)
For me dumb phone is no use, as I don't use cellular voice for anything (I've talk with my friends and parents on daily basis, but it is always Telegram/Skype voice call, not cellular voice), and only usage of SMS for me is force-feeded 2FA for banks and other services which don't know better (unfortunately)...
Who will I call, we all are all around the Globe? Why I will text?.. Ok, week ago I had birthday party and there were a fair amount of guests, so some of my friends now in same location as me. Do they have local phone numbers? I bet, they have, because without it it is impossible to open bank account or rent a flat. Do I know these numbers? No. Because for what reason, we all communicate in messengers for years. These accounts are fixed identities for us, and phone numbers are for governments and banks.
I could simply turn off my smartphone with same effect as have dumb phone :-)
Oh, maybe, I need to call ambulance once a year...
Edit:
Idea of phone which is technically LTE Modem with all chat/voice protocols under the unified phone-like interface, plus ability to run some offline GPS, like Organic Maps or OsmAnd, looks good, but politically impossible due to close nature of most chat/voice apps.
I _feel_ as though I need those things, at any rate.
I've got a printer at home. Sister in law printed a plane ticket on it the other day, just in case there'd be an issue with her phone. Instead of "GPS device + car ride services" I've got an old-fashioned thing: a car. The car happens to have its own GPS so I can get around.
It may not suit everybody of course.
Sometimes I'll draw a little map for fun and use that instead of the phone directions, for simple things. Once I draw the map I find that I actually memorize 90% of it anyways and often don't end up looking at it.
As for car ride services, I just stopped using them except for super essential times, at which point I can pull my iPhone out of a drawer.
But that's still two devices instead of one, which ends up being more complicated, not less.
[1] https://intercom.help/flipdapp/en/articles/1970782-how-to-se...
I have a Pixel 5 because it's the smallest form factor Android smartphone available. I never installed any entertainment (games, social media, video streaming) apps on it. Those that came pre-installed (ie. YouTube), I uninstalled or disabled.
After this, I disabled notifications for everything besides calls and messages (SMS, Signal, email). I cleaned my emails so only genuine stuff ever pops up, and I make it a point to not check my phone, except for set times throughout the day, unless I'm being bombarded by messages or calls (as would happen in an emergency).
The phone that is left sits in my pocket 99% of the day, but still has the tools that I may need (Maps, Uber) should my forward planning be thwarted by unexpected occurrences (lost my pre-planned route to a new place, a cancelled bus/train). My daily smartphone use is maybe 10 minutes. Some people have commented that they didn't think I had one, because I'm barely holding it.
I don't understand the need to get rid of tools which could help in an emergency or unexpected circumstances. I anecdotally had a friend who uses a dumbphone because he wanted to simplify things, and he ended up pestering the people he was around to check their maps or to look something up. In the end he went back to a smartphone.
You can do this with any smartphone, cheap or expensive. I did it with a Pixel 5 just because I liked the form factor of something that can easily slip into my running bag, pockets etc. Plus, as a bonus, the low usage of the device should keep it going for a couple of years until my next dumb smartphone.
you can use smartphone exactly same way as dumbphone and still have smart features available when needed
problem with dumbphones is mainly horrible camera, so you would need to carry camera if you wanna capture something, smartphone with self control solves this issue, nobody forces you to use anything but Phone and Messages apps and you will still have great camera and GPS, which are both lacking at dumbphones
if you use phone this way you should have pretty great battery life even with smartphone, you can choose some power efficient SoC combined with huge battery, for instance in Sony Xperia 10 IV, which is also relatively compact (narrow, but longer)
if you wanna save your time delete all social media apps and preferably also block these sites in browser, then also turn off notifications for everything but Phone and Messages, eventually Email if you need and your problem is solved
if you wanna go a bit more extreme you could use custom ROM without gapps, but honestly as someone using this config for almost decade I am hardly limited by apps because pretty much everything works even without gapps
By their very design these days, smart phones are created with a singular goal of keeping the attention of the user. Incessant A/B testing, analytics and dark patterns use make them more addictive than an average willpower can handle. It can be done, but that individual is officially fighting off efforts of companies with budgets sometimes rivaling those of nation states.
I can agree that the problem is people, but I think we disagree on the exact nature of the problem.
But it is a real answer. Solution to being fat is not some miracle pill or miracle diet, but lower the food/calories consumption and more exercise/movement (which is both again self control), simple as that. Seems like people nowadays are so childish they can't even admit how stupid and lazy they are and they prefer to blame someone else for their own misfortune caused by themselves. No one forced you to become fat by excessive eating. You can always become slim, if you start eating reasonable amounts of food and start exercising, but of course you can ignore this and try each year new miracle diet, same as people moving away from smartphones to dumbphones to fix their self control issues.
> smart phones are created with a singular goal of keeping the attention of the user. Incessant A/B testing, analytics and dark patterns use make them more addictive than an average willpower can handle.
I think you are confusing smartphones with apps/sites. Smartphones themselves and their manufacturers (maybe besides Apple since they produce complete package) are certainly not using any of those methods to make them more addictive. People are addicted to social media apps, not the phones, phones are just tools. It's like blaming silverware producers for being fat, because you eat sugary/unhealthy food.
If you wanna blame someone blame companies developing/producing apps/services, your blame on smartphone companies is misdirected. I don't think Xiaomi or Samsung (these two have pretty much all Android market in Europe) produce many addicting apps, while I am certain Facebook, Bytedance, Twitter and other companies produce addictive services/apps.
Um. It is an answer and it is even a convincing one, but it is not the answer.
<< Solution to being fat is not some miracle pill or miracle diet, but lower the food/calories consumption and more exercise/movement (which is both again self control), simple as that.
Yes in general. However, there are studies[1] suggesting that it is not exactly one size fit all in the sense that some bodies may defend their accumulated energy in the form of fat. In other words, there is a genetic component that can't be so easily dismissed with 'just eat less'.
<< Seems like people nowadays are so childish they can't even admit how stupid and lazy they are and they prefer to blame someone else for their own misfortune caused by themselves.
I am not sure I would phrase it quite so bluntly. You do recognize that it is something of a vicious cycle? An obese man is a lot more unlikely to start running around the block precisely, because of all that extra weight weighing him down. It is often a string of bad decisions, but it sounds overly dismissive.
<< You can always become slim,
I mean, in a sense we can always go on a starvation diet, but is more likely to result in a yoyo effect. Hardly a long term solution.
<< I think you are confusing smartphones with apps/sites.
Not really. I do mean both especially now that Google more tightly tries to run its ecosystem. Unless you are trying to convince that their flagship is not designed that you stare at it all the time. And if you look at Samsung ecosystem ( and its flagship ) the distinction you suggests slowly starts to lose its meaning.
<< People are addicted to social media apps, not the phones, phones are just tools.
You are right. At the end of the day, the tool itself is just that. However, if the tool in question liberally dispenses social equivalent of nudges, pushes, validation, belonging to a 'community' and effectively serves as heroine to attention starved addict, the tool is an addiction dispenser. It has to be recognized as such. Like.. I have no problem with drugs.. but I can't just will oxi addiction away. Social addiction is notably different, but you underappreciate its impact, because it is a mental addiction and not physical. I posit that the truly addictive things are more mental in nature.
Also true that phones are just tools; hardware is largely useless without software. Apple, Google, Samsung all provide various time wasters.
<< Smartphones themselves and their manufacturers (maybe besides Apple since they produce complete package) are certainly not using any of those methods to make them more addictive.
I am not sure Google, Samsung or Apple would agree ( openly that is ). To borrow your example, Apple only introduced limits on screentime after demands from various interested groups[2]. I don't even want to think what Google does.
<< If you wanna blame someone blame companies developing/producing apps/services, your blame on smartphone companies is misdirected.
It is a fascinating IF clause. I am paraphrasing while trying to retain the same meaning: "If I want to do something, my action is wrong". Could you elaborate? I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I do not want to assume the meaning you wanted to convey.
<< I am certain Facebook, Bytedance, Twitter and other companies produce addictive services/apps.
FWIW, I blame them as well.
[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990627/ [2]https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/07/two-large-apple-shareholde...
I feel society has moved on and we're pretty much expected to have these devices. I even bought one for my job because they require an auth and I have to verify its me again at random intervals. So secure, so authenticated. I hate it
You've introduced just enough friction to disrupt the habits you want to break without bricking your device like some other commenters have.
I try to keep friction in my life for other habits I don't want to develop (don't keep alcohol or junk food at home, keep credit card in a specific drawer to limit impulse spending).
I don't know how to get others there, though. Things feel so obviously designed to grab my attention and keep me there and I can't stand it, I don't get how others don't seem to care and jump in with both feet.
But then again I can't look a donut in the eye and not fall victim to them. So who am I to talk?
Mostly the "smart phones/internet/etc" are ruining society reaction is the same type of thing as the reactions to the introduction to newspapers/books, electricity, radio, television, etc. These were all destroying society and addicting the youth. But they aren't addictive. The only existing medically recognized behavioral addiction (ie, not a real addiction like to a drug like methamphetamine) is "gambling disorder".
Mine got a lot better when I got a phone that supported their newer 4.5 and 5 g frequencies, so I can't imagine it is great.
Punkt mp02 + prepaid contactless debit card. Cut out chip + antenna from card and glue to inside of battery cover.
The above is the best dumb phone at m. Apple pay ux + signal (pigeon) + no ui-based app distractions.
For GPS best bet is to get a puck for the car or go whole hog and rock a smartwatch % payments
I use my iPhone as a camera, for text chatting with (less than 5) people, and for navigation, mostly. Sometimes I use it as a phone. I could see replacing the phone feature (except for emergencies) with a landline.
I just have a voip phone adapter connected to a random old phone and I use voip.ms for the actual service. It costs effectively nothing to run. It’s not a landline in the transitional sense, but those largely don’t exist anymore.
It's not a real circuit-switched network with its own power supply like traditional POTS service.
What sent me on a quest for a dumb(er) phone was to be able to leave the house without my main phone because I didn't want to be contacted unless it was an emergency (by either my wife or my kids).
It sucks that the phone has essentially become the main way for all communication — From emergency texts to please remember the milk to hey how is it going to happy birthday to our child from the kids' orthodontist! My wife and I lament about this merging of priorities into phone form all the time. We've been experimenting with basically being in Do Not Disturb mode all the time and yes, people get annoyed when it takes hours to respond, but our lives are better.
What I really want though, it is be just about completely disconnected. So, I'm going to experiment with using a second phone number for when I'm out and about for a few hours. I plan on using a dumb(er) phone with this phone number.
I really wanted to the Punkt or the Mutida but they don't have GPS which to me is a feature I don't think I can live without and they have problems with some of the carriers in the US which I didn't want to have to deal with. I hope we can end up with different feature sets on phones going forward.
https://medium.com/the-light-phone/we-re-not-anti-technology...
>We didn’t always have a small computer with us at all times. In the days of AIM, “away messages” and “signing off”, there was a specific chair and a specific desk with our family computer, and when you sat in that chair and that desk and listened patiently to the modem sounds connecting, then you could be on the internet. Leaving that chair left the internet behind.
Do Not Disturb helps with external, incoming communication but not with outgoing.
This is a well known issue that has been posted on the Facebook groups and various reddit pages and from what I can tell, it has been around for at least a few years. It looks like it affects the Pocket and the Slim, although unclear if the original Titan is affected. I tried the various workarounds noted by Unihertz on the Facebook forum posts:
1. Moved next to router. The WiFi screen shows excellent -33 RSSI signal value
2. Settings } Apps & Notifications } Advanced } Special app access } Battery optimization } All apps
2a. System Wi-Fi Resources: Not optimized
2b. Tethering: Not optimized
2c. com.android.wifi.resources.overlay: Not optimized
2d. The app I was streaming video from
4. Ensured my router has different SSID for 2.4GHz and SSID for 5GHz networks
5. Connected phone to 2.4GHz network
6. Not running mesh mode
7. Disabled IPv6
8. WiFi authentication set to WPA2
The endless scrolling and liking on social (which is now a pandemic) could arguably be served by a much slimmed down device. NB: Maybe thats something Meta should build and offer "for free".
I dont know how we could ever get immunized against big tech dumbness and start really using smartphones in smart ways. They pack exceptional hardware. Mine even has an FM radio (thats something to do with electromagnetic waves).
Its just a matter of software. Which is a matter of mindsets, control and economics. I like to think that a society that manages to truly use smartphones as smart devices will get to the next level of civilization
>Why? Is it too political?
When I look at the "active" threads on HN. The majority are political. For example, NY Jails want to ban mail. It's entirely political for a tiny portion of the world, but clearly allowed.
Your problem is that you came up against communism.
Also... I don't understand, why there is flagging without any explanation? How can I learn from it?
Occasionally I break out the iPhone for a Lyft ride to the airport or something, but beyond that there hasn't been much of a need.
Honestly, I love the idea. I've reduced my smart phone usage at this point to convenience of paying for public transit, small credit card purchases, 2FA, and chat - but only to get in on the real world. It's made me happy.
not saying it's going to scratch all the itches that Spotify would, but it definitely will scratch some you didnt realize you had, which is a fun experience on it's own
I'd like to see someone develop a new smartphone platform with all the niceties like GPS, a decent camera, easy cloud (and/or manual) backups of my data, and either a lot of onboard storage or easy SD compatibility, but offer it in a completely different physical format that is more conducive to efficient, intermittent productive/tool-like use and less tuned for consumption. Small form factor, maybe a fold-out QWERTY keyboard (my LG Env3 is the only phone I've ever actually liked), headphone jack, etc. Something reasonably durable that can take a drop or be submerged and simply won't be "fun" enough to spend much passive time on.
As for apps, I like all my basics to be built by the same company that built the hardware, but combining that with an open platform for third-party options seems like an easy win, even if I don't end up using those other apps myself.
I recently got my old iPod up and running again because I loathe the touchscreen/Bluetooth headphone combination for listening to music. But it feels so stupid to be carrying an additional device. I now carry a camera with me too because I dislike smartphone image processing. This also feels stupid.
It's silly that we've concluded the only two options are pocket computers that can't do much at all, or pocket computers that can do anything, but only in this one way that many people find harmful.
I do appreciate the disclosure.
With that said, I've been trying to lock down my smartphone to offline-only apps + text + calls, totally agree with the mission, I've felt so much more distractable of late
Automatic Recording (of all calls) - with prompts optionally (consent), Speech to Text, Spam Protection, "Captchas for calls"
Instead we got this:
https://i.etsystatic.com/28431667/r/il/d1a61f/3334764950/il_...
with a browser in it.