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Comment by Arainach | Hacker News Reader

Having children is a lot like religion: I have many friends with children and they're nice people and there is no issue, but there is a certain subset of the population that spends their entire life telling me how I'm an awful person making a huge mistake for not [having children/being religious] and they are utterly insufferable and not worth associating with.

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I hear you. But I will also tell you that until you have children of your own, it is difficult to appreciate the value they bring.

They are work and require sacrifice but it can be an investment that pays huge dividends for the rest of your life.

You’re not a bad person if you don’t want children. I think most people with children trying to convince you to have some are well-meaning and just don’t want childless people to miss out.

My advice would be: if even a small part of you thinks you want children, just do it. You will grow to take on the new responsibility. But do it no later than age 40.

Having children changes you right quick. It's not just that you have to change therefore you do. No, it's that it just changes you. A 20 year old dad can be much more mature than a 40 year old bachelor, but there's no reason to think that the 20 year old dad will have less fun than the 40 year old bachelor.

There are tangos (and I'm sure country western, and other songs) that are all about the protagonist having had all these ladies as a young man, but never a woman, or how they left behind the one woman who was their soul mate just to get laid with lots of others. E.g., Ansiedad, by Juan D'Arienzo[0][1].

Here's Nick Freitas talking about getting married at 19[2]. Be sure to read some of the comments.

  [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHGmN9GTPM
  [1] https://www.musixmatch.com/es/letras/Juan-D-Arienzo/Ansiedad/traduccion/ingles
  [2] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/u_q8-UNk4TU

.....and there are plenty of stories of people who got married way too early before they learned who they are and were miserable and got divorced. There are plenty of kids with horror stories of growing up in those loveless households.

Yes, I'm aware. It's taking a chance. Now if the two kids (for, if they are 19, 20, 21, 22, ... they are kids) have had a good education from their parents and relatives and friends, and hopefully also if those people are around and willing to help them, then they should be able to work through difficulties.

Right.

But if you’re mature enough to debate the pros and cons of having children, you hopefully won’t be a bad parent if you do choose have kids.

When a couple of 20 year olds decides to have children, they're almost certainly not mature enough, but it can and should work out.

Why are they most certainly not mature enough. Having children in the 20s or has been the standard for essentially all of human history until the last 30 years, give or take. What is it about modern society that makes human beings less fit for parenthood than every previous generation?

> My advice would be: if even a small part of you thinks you want children, just do it.

Uhh this sounds like terrible advice--kids aren't cars that can be returned or sold if it turns out the "small part" was incorrect.

If this is your view of having children, I would suggest you wait.

They are not a pet or a piece of personal property. Caring for a child is the biggest responsibility of your life and it will likely not go according to plan. If you’re unable to grow to meet the demands, then it may be best to wait.

Caring for a pet should be for the pet's life as well, and it offends my moral sensibilities to put pets in a category alongside personal property.

I think you misunderstand me though--and I'm not sure how, to be frank, I think what I was saying was pretty clear from the context:

Precisely because it's such a huge responsibility, etc., the person to whom I was replying was giving bad advice. They were (basically) suggesting having a kid even if one is unsure about whether one wants to.

edit: oh you're the poster to whom I was replying. Above, you said:

> My advice would be: if even a small part of you thinks you want children, just do it. You will grow to take on the new responsibility.

Now you're turning around and saying "oh no, it's a grave responsibility that shouldn't be taken lightly, don't do it if you're not ready".

Why before 40? Do the kids turn into gremlins if I'm older?

There are many well-known challenges to conceiving and having a successful pregnancy if the man and especially the woman are near/over than 40.

Really there's often difficulty past 30.

Your 20s are the prime years for reproduction, biologically.

On the other hand, not having kids is also a lot like a religion now. I want kids and have many friends who do not and they’re nice people and there is no issue, but there is a certain subset of the population that spends their entire life telling me how I'm an awful person making a huge mistake for wanting children and they are utterly insufferable and not worth associating with.

This is the dominant perspective on the social media that younger generations spend their time on. I’d argue that as a person in their mid 20s today, actually wanting kids is the bizarre position. I often feel alienated for openly stating it among good friends of mine.

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