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Comment by bitdivision | Hacker News Reader

I'm surprised you can't tell the difference between UHT and regular milk. I've tried a few brands in the UK, and there's a clear difference in tea / coffee, and it's particularly marked if you're drinking milk on its own.

Maybe the UK is lagging behind on UHT? Or I'm just buying the wrong brand.

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Coming from drinking Irish milk, American milk already tastes like water. I can understand UHT being interchangeable if the baseline product is already bland.

American milk is very varied, sounds like you’re describing plastic gallon jug skim milk. If you want something a bit heartier, you can probably find creamline milk from a local farm.

I have been reliably informed that homogenized dairy products increase inflammation, and so I've made efforts to purchase creamline products instead. It's been revelatory, the difference and enjoyment I derive from it. I've found Straus Creamery makes amazing milk and yogurt products. Sometimes the milk comes in a glass half-gallon with a $2 deposit and I return them to the store. It's kind of a game to scoop out a big plug of cream from the narrow-mouth bottle! I guess you're supposed to mix it into coffee or tea, but I just kind of eat it. Yummy. Also, this kind of milk seems to keep for a good bit of time and it goes sour very, very slowly. The fresh scent is very delicate.

The yogurt is likewise amazing. You can get European or you can get Greek, if you don't want to pay for water. I get the plain stuff and again, it's got delicate flavors and odor, not the real tang of plain mass-produced yogurt. It's great to mix with my Muesli or just have a few medicinal tablespoons every day. In fact, it's difficult to stop once I've started spooning it out.

Can you point to any documentation for the inflammation claim? A quick search didn't come up with much besides a study explicitly concluding the contrary: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09586...

Unfortunately, I circulate in woke bubbles where accurate medical information is actively contradicted, rewritten, and suppressed, so it's difficult for me to come by. I read it in a book, by authors with proven credentials, a good track record, and the book is replete with accurate yet suppressed information. I seldom bother searching for more of the same while I live in this backwater, because none of the search results or websites I find will deviate from the establishment narratives.

My stomach can't stand non homogenized milk. My father, on the other hand, loves it. Both of us were raised on it, only I had to be trained with the stick to drink it as a child.

Both of us are lactose intolerant. God knows why he likes it and I don't.

By non-homogenized I mean straight from the cow, still warm.

So i don't like homogenization because it destroys the mouth feel. So i am sympathetic to what you are saying.

However, what would the mechanism be for increased inflammation caused by homogenization? Do you have a source? I'm not saying you're not correct, but I'm more inclined to believe that there is a hidden, highly correlated variable at play.

Regardless of whether it has harmful effects or not, the fact is that homogenization is a wholly cosmetic operation; it's done because urban middle-class consumers were supposedly grossed out by solids floating in their milk and having to deal with the separate elements; it's done more or less in denial of the nature of milk in its natural state. There's no benefit, other than looks and feels, that homogenization offers, so why go through that process, expense, and bother if it's pointless, and may in fact be harmful? Just put the milk on the shelves. I feel that the cream is lovely and I'm thankful that it's separate so it can be handled appropriately.

Plastic litres jug milk sold in Ireland and the UK is what both commenters were comparing to the bland UHT milk.

Generally everything is available in the USA, but there are some surprising cases where the default product is of noticeable lower quality than the default in Europe.

Not gonna comment on something as subjective as "quality", but just the taste of Coca Cola is noticeably different in the US vs at home in the EU.

High-fructose corn syrup is used as the sweetener in US Coca-Cola, rather than sugar.

Yeah, I’d say that the default in the US is generally cheaper and lower quality than the default in France, at least (no experience with Ireland).

I would say that default dairy and meat quality is roughly the same in France and Ireland. France has an edge on bread and pastries, while fruit and veg depends on the season but because so much more has to be shipped into Ireland, France gets the edge there too.

If you spend the same amount in US as France (milk _is_ more expensive in France), is the quality the same? This comment only seems to confirm that cheaper milk will be worse.

Just with https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings... the price is within 10%.

Are you just talking about normal milk in Ireland like this?

https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/en-IE/products/250005606

It's essentially identical to whole milk in the US. Nutritionally, compositionally, and flavor-wise.

I really can't imagine what you're talking about "tasting like water" unless you switched to skim milk or 2% in the US without realizing it?

Nope. American milk is pasteurized to a much higher temp. It lasts way longer. Irish goes off in days, US milk will last a month in the fridge. The extra pasteurization effects the taste and flavor.

I can't find any evidence to support that.

High-Temperature, Short-Time (HSTS) Pasteurization appears to be the standard in both Ireland [1] and the US [2] -- 71.7°C / 161°F for 15 seconds.

And I can tell you from personal experience that US milk goes bad in days as well, and has for decades. I don't know where you're getting the idea that it lasts a month in the fridge.

There are real differences in some foods between the US and Europe, e.g. American eggs are washed while European ones aren't. But fresh milk from the supermarket appears to be very much identical.

[1] https://ndc.ie/accordion/what-is-pasteurisation/

[2] https://www.usdairy.com/news-articles/why-is-milk-pasteurize...

I also looked into this and couldn't find any reliable information on what pasteurisation method was actually used in the UK.

I did find that US allows the use of hormones to increase milk production. Possibly that's a factor? But very difficult to tell.

I can say in my personal experience that fresh whole milk in Europe and the US tastes the same.

I really don't know why the original poster claimed otherwise. Maybe it's just an urban legend in parts of Europe or something.

I live in the US but grew up on a dairy farm in Ireland. In my personal experience the two milks are very different.

I think mikk is disgusting, but even the few times I've tried it in the USA it's obvious there's something wrong, lower quality, with it.

Perhaps it's the homogenization. Too aggressive perhaps?

Or maybe the comparatively poorer diet/aggressive production schedule?

Not that Im surprised though. The one thing I throughly dislike about the US (otherwise I love it) is the low foods standards. My local WF doesn't hold a candle to the quality of any grocery story in any country Ive lived in.

> mass-produced "fresh" milk (at 2% anyway)

At 2% I would not even bother considering this product as a milk.

I don't think you deserve all the down votes. I grew up in the U.S. in the 90's drinking healthy 1% or skim milk, then lived in Europe for two years drinking probably 3.5% or 4% and I tried going back to low fat milk and just can't. Whole milk all the way

The taste difference between 2% and skim is vast to me, but the difference between 2% and 3.5% seems much less noticeable. I regularly buy either 2% or whole for no particular reason other than my mood and they are interchangeable, at least to my taste buds. Skim milk is just milky water as far as I'm concerned.

2% is semi-skimmed. I can’t imagine confusing what with whole milk. Even 3.5% and 5% are quite different from each other.

Here (Ontario Canada) 5% is sold as light cream.

That's angry American guys, probably *grin*

The other guy deleted his comment, but:

> it's 3.5%.

Thanks, I know, I say this about the taste and.. texture? At 2% it's just a watery fluid with a hint of milk for me. Back when I had milk in ny house I never bought anything with less than 3.5%, it was pointless for me.

I don't think the UK pasteurizes their milk to the same degree as North America. When I lived in the UK a pint of milk would last a week or so at most, but here in Canada it can last a month.

> here in Canada it can last a month.

This seems to depend on the container as well as the brand / market segment.

"low end" Nielson / Sealtest / Beatrice in bags seems to last < 2 weeks, whereas stuff like Natrel / Lactantia / Nielson Truetaste in cartons seems to last around a month.

A month??? That’s definitely different.

UHT can easily last longer, it's shelf-stable (like literally on the shelf, no refrigeration needed) for months.

It's kinda wild it has as small of an impact on taste as it does. There's absolutely a difference, but it's surprisingly decent.

Oh, yeah, UHT can last for ages on the shelf. But I read it as referring to ordinary milk, in the refrigerator. "When I lived in the UK a pint of milk would last a week or so at most" sounds about right for that.

I personally think there's a big difference in taste, and I don't use UHT unless I really need to, but I'm sure that's partly just snobbery. You're right that it's perfectly OK for most purposes.

I've tried UHT-processed milk in other countries and agree with you that the flavor is bizarre; usually the stuff is sold in TetraPak containers ime. But in the US, I can't tell the difference in flavor compared to non-UHT milk - Horizon was the first brand I noticed that sells mostly UHT milk products but nowadays, most grocery store-brand milk is UHT processed and it seems fine.

I live in the UK and always thought UHT milk was horrible. Recently I spent some time in Spain where all the milk is UHT (presumably because of the climate). At some point I realised I couldn't tell the difference, or at least it wasn't horrible. However, I was only consuming it heated up, like in a café con leche. Maybe that's why GP can't taste the difference?

Could be! I imagine I also notice the difference because I usually use UHT when I've run out of fresh milk. So the taste of coffee with fresh milk is pretty recent, vs travelling to another country.

I'm sure if I was using UHT every day I'd start to forget the difference.

I agree that the difference is very noticeable, but it's still small enough that if OP was, say, a smoker they might not be able to notice it.

In my personal experience I prefer the taste of UHT over traditional milk. I do however buy UHT from a local dairy.

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