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Comment by bradleyjg | Hacker News Reader

Dishwasher cycles have been getting longer and longer and it’s a pain in the neck. Give me back my hour long cycle and actually clean dishes, please.

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You may or may not have seen Technology Connections' many, many videos on the subject of dishwashers.

The tl; dr is:

  * use the basic powder stuff
  * put some of the basic powder stuff in the "pre wash" section
  * if your washer doesn't have a prewash, sprinkle a little on the inside
  * turn the sink water on hot until it's producing hot water before starting the dishwasher
  * if your dishwasher has a filter for food, check that it's empty
  * you're probably using too much detergent

https://www.youtube.com/@TechnologyConnections/search?query=...

I found this to be bad advice. I switched to the basic powder stuff for a while and my dishes were always horrible. Went back to Cascade Platinum pods and I've never had a problem.

I've switched over to using Cascade Gel in the prewash and a Platinum pod in main wash after watching the video a couple months ago. I felt the powder stuff gets kinda messy amd the gel is easier.

I don't need to pre rinse and scrub anymore. Silverware, dishes, and pots go straight in even with food residue dried on, so I save a bunch of time.

Everything comes out perfectly spotless and squeaky clean. Older GE dishwasher on auto.

As America's Test Kitchen said a very long time ago, use the pods that have as many different colors as you can find. Those Cascade Platinum pods are great.

I just go with most expensive and most marketing filled one. It is not that much more expensive for me and I usually try to wash dishes with really dried food. So it works well enough for most of them.

You can blame detergent regulations for this. About a decade or so back phosphates were banned from detergents. The problem is that was the thing that made them work really well. In order to compensate for less effective detergents, cycle times have gotten longer.

Phosphate detergents are still available in commercial soaps, but I don't recommend skirting the regs here as they had some solid reasoning (algae blooms). Instead you can get away with shorter cycles by doing 2 things.

First - run your tap until the water is hot before starting the cycle, and second, use a booster powder instead of only using a pod or the main detergent door. These 2 things will get significantly more gunk off your food during that first rinse phase. As a result you may be able to get away with the "quick" cycle.

Funnily, if you ask around outside America, you'll get the opposite advice: a cold water connection gives better cleaning, because starch and protein do not coagulate in the initial rinse[0]. I suppose conventional wisdom only serves the status quo. Which effect is actually greater? Have yet to find a scientific test.

[0] Compare what you find with

  dishwasher hot water site:reddit.com
  dishwasher hot water site:forums.whirlpool.net.au
  spülmaschine warmwasser forum

PS: dishwashers with condensation drying cool the tub with water for the next run stored in a tank beside it. This is probably why European brands have a reputation of not drying in the US.

My mid-range Bosch dries the dishes just fine. If I unload it right at the end of the cycle, they’re slightly uncomfortably hot.

I think the long cycles are more related to energy efficiency regulations, most dishwashers default to a 3h 'eco' cycle with 50 degC, but also have a 1h 65 degC cycle.

The hot water tip does not apply in most parts of the world I think as the heating is done in the dishwasher (hence the temperature settings).

I wish HN had a forum signature like function so I could just put a "all of my comments written through the lens of living in the United States".

Most US dishwashers require you to hook up to hot water supply line. Problem is since they only use a gallon or two of water, if you don't run the tap first you are very likely feeding it lukewarm water. There are indeed heating elements but they don't get the water up to temp immediately - so starting things off already hot tends to help.

Dishwashers contain a heating element no? Not sure if booster powder is a specific product but yeah detergent on the little lip of the main detergent door is a significant help.

For those interested, here is a wonderful 30min deep dive by none other than Technology Connections about dishwashers and detergent usage: https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04

Aren’t phosphates a critical component of fertilizer? I’d think that’d be a far larger source of runoff than dishwashers.

Removing phosphates from dishwasher detergent was stupid because phosphates are measured in the discharge water from the waste treatment plants where it is regulated, and they can be dealt with chemically. All removing phosphates did was save a tiny amount of money on water treatment. Zero effect on the environment. Total greenwashing like plastic wish-cycling.

If you want zero effort spotless dishes, just mix STPP in a 1:4 ratio with cheap powdered detergent.

https://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Tripolyphosphate-Super-Cleans-...

You only throw fertilizer down on the lawn a couple times a year if at all and of course most of it is taken up by the plants you are feeding it to, whereas most people wash their dishes at least once a day and all of that water ends up down the drain.

What about industrial agriculture?

That's a whole other animal. I mean why is California always dealing with water shortages but still growing almonds? My comments here are talking about residential stuff. I think I mentioned above that commercial detergents also still have phosphates. The whole 2 sets of rules thing is pretty common in the US shrug

Well but this is my point. I don’t know the ratios resident/industrial for phosphates, it was an honest question. But for water, I do know the numbers. Indoor residential use isn’t even a rounding error. So why are Californians taking crappy showers with low flow showers when it doesn’t even make any difference?

If we really want to solve these problems and not just feel good about ourselves we should have a different set of policies.

I think we are kind of on the same side of this particular argument :-)

I love how you just gloss over 'solid reasoning' and 'still available in commercial soaps'. If it's bad enough to be taken out of residential use it should be taken out of commercial use. There should not be separate classes of what people are allowed to do in America. Things like this previously drove me to be an a*hole libertarian out of frustration.

Check out the Miele G7000 series, I got the Miele G7156 (entry-ish model for the 7000 series) and exclusively buy their consumables (except for water conditioner salt). Calibrate your water hardness and double check your install (just in case, install techs where I live will just breeze through menus and do really dumb stuff they shouldn't like run it with the softener dry). Then set it to Quick + Intense Zone and never mess with the settings again... It just works and the time estimates are dynamic, we get ~1h4m full cycles with three washes per cycle. You can make it faster, but only by reducing intensity or reducing the wash count per cycle. It's amazing and possibly my favorite appliance purchase. As I said entry-ish, but only for their latest series, it's still luxury, and the steps up are mostly AutoDos (automatic consumable discs at a premium price), connectivity, and touchscreens. The G7156 is basic non-connected, has push buttons, has a water softener and will auto-open for faster drying (can be turned off, but I suggest keeping it on).

Not sure what you're putting in your dishwasher, but FWIW I have a 30 minutes / 60°C cycle on my dishwasher (off-brand) that I use when I forgot to run it at night. Dishes come out clean as new.

The eco cycle I use at night is 50°C and longer (not sure how long, that's why I run it at night) and everything always come out clean as well.

Whenever anyone complains about how appliances are getting worse and worse in the name of eco friendliness there’s always someone that pops out of the woodwork to say that actually they are great.

If this was true we wouldn’t need bans in the first place. CRTs weren’t banned and where are they now.

Do you want me to say my dishes are dirty since they banned phosphate? It's not the case.

Honestly the fact phosphates are banned even in the US shows the impact they have, given the crap this country doesn't ban, including in food products.

Maybe if CRTs had had a major impact on local water quality they would have been banned too (and I sure hope so)

Sure. Acknowledge that the new dishwashers (washing machines / stoves / toilets / grocery bags / etc.) suck but we need to save the planet. Then show me the evidence they we are actually saving the planet and not just peacocking. I’ll be there with you.

Don’t try to tell that we live in a perfect world where there are no tradeoffs and those that I’m seeing are just in my head.

they work just fine. Less energy, water and chemical consumption is always a welcome effect.

My dishwasher (a Samsung) has an "60 minute express wash" option.

I've never used it in a full load, but it works well when I have a smaller load.

But that would require phosphates and those are bad now

Only bad for residential users. They are actually totally OK for commercial users (in America rights and restrictions get split into different classes for different groups of users now).

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