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Comment by poloniculmov | Hacker News Reader

This is such an american POV, don't require a certification because it will make it harder to underpay teachers. Why not focus on getting those people affordable education?

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Why does a childcare worker need a college education?

To learn pedagogy?

Any evidence that makes for better childcare?

"oh he's not being a piece of shit, his brain is literally incapable of processing this!"

"this behaviour seems indicative of abuse… welp I better contact authorities!"

And many other examples that you will disregard because you've already decided that childcare is not a real job, unlike YOUR job, which is important and serious.

My job doesn't need a college degree either. I think a certain kind of person venerates school rather than seeing it as a cost. For this type of person school is, by default, something that people should do. Personally, I don't share that view. School is something that should be required where necessary but optional otherwise.

You absolutely do not need a college degree, or lessons on pedagogy, to understand that children are immature or what abuse indicators are. The former is intuitively understood by pretty much everyone, especially people interested in childcare, and the latter can be covered in on the job training.

I'd like to return to my original question though - any evidence that childcare is improved by a college degree? Anyone could come up with things you'd learn in college that might make you better at childcare - but that's not the same thing as evidence.

> You absolutely do not need a college degree, or lessons on pedagogy, to understand [...]

Not everybody is as lucky as you, apparently born with infused knowledge :)

> Anyone could come up with things you'd learn in college that might make you better at childcare - but that's not the same thing as evidence.

Ah, you redefine "evidence" to be "something that by definition I will reject".

Ok I have no evidence then :)

I don't get why you're trying to be snarky and also obviously wrong. College isn't the only place to learn things. There's K-12, independent learning, and on the job learning, etc.

I define "evidence" in the usual way which excludes baseless speculation. As easily as you can imagine some fact that one might learn in college would be useful to a childcare worker, I can imagine that it would not be or that it would be learned elsewhere.

Where would the "elsewhere" be? You're just arguing for the time spent learning to not be spent learning.

That’s garbage. Personally have 10 years experience as an iOS engineer. No degree. Where could I possibly of learned this knowledge without school! Not everyone needs to be spoon fed

Making a bad app the first time is somehow not as bad as being a shitty educator to tens of kids, in my book.

Certain professions have less leeway for mistakes than others.

For example a surgeon vs a musician; or a software developer for phone apps vs a software developer for fly-by-wire components.

> That’s garbage

It isn't, and you being rude will not make my ideas any less valid.

Yes, and I can list examples that are more of a threat (screwing up an insulin monitor app).

Your idea is invalid regardless of me being "rude". People have been watching and raising kids virtually forever without degrees. I was responding to your careless lack of need for evidence. The burden of proof is on those who want to demand such credentials.

Specifically you saying about "things you'd learn in college that might make you better at childcare" means the replier "redefine "evidence" to be "something that by definition I will reject"." is in fact garbage. "might" and "evidence" are not synonymous.

The more childcare workers were educated in my experience, the more likely they were to claim my brain was incapable of processing something, and they were wrong. The educational system has a bias towards treating more and more kids as incompetent since they have a direct funding incentive to do so and that's hardly something I want to amplify by spending money on this training. Nobody actually measures if any of what schools are teaching childhood educators actually has a positive impact on kids, it's just assumed that it does, and people want to force people to do years of labour on the basis of said assumption.

I don't know if recognising the signs of abuse requires a college degree. Seems more like a certification sort of thing.

Comments like this one are a perfect example of why we need to do a better job at education.

Yes childcare worker being able to distinguish between normal behavior and troubled behavior, knowing few things about brain development, knowing effective strategies how to teach children do make difference.

I apologize, my question must have been confusing. I was asking for evidence of the claim. Something a bit more substantial than your speculation, perhaps.

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