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Comment by jonahbenton | Hacker News Reader

Got the kids a $2k Roland FP 90x for Christmas to replace a $1k Casio. I don't play but they liked the Roland action when we tried their models in stores over Yamaha, Casio, and some others. Now that we have it- incredible instrument, well worth the upgrade, good match for their skills. It is a really, really good sound producer, better than most analog pianos I've heard, though I can easily tell the difference between it and their teacher's Steinway grand. The sounds emitted by the Roland are very fine, but still digital. It feels like a $10k digital would get much closer to being able to trick a listener into thinking it was a fine analog.

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To me even the very highest end digital pianos still sound digital, but they are close enough and the benefits of digital outweigh what you might sacrifice in sound for most people.

I've noticed there is also fierce debate between digital pianos that are based on sampled sounds versus modeled. I believe most Roland digitals are modeled with Fourier series, while all/most of their competitors are sampled (not sure about Nord). That said Pianoteq is a popular after market VST that will bring a very convincing top tier modeled sound to even a low end digital piano.

For anyone price-sensitive, I highly recommend getting the cheapest 88-key hammer-action keyboard you can find and hooking it up to Pianoteq Stage rather than buying a dedicated digital piano.

Exception if you're going to travel with it. Built-in sounds save you on setup time.

I’m not extremely concerned with sound quality, both because I intend to play around with lots of VSTs and because I‘ll be upgrading from a Roland RD-700SX which has served me incredibly well but which is very outdated when it comes to the sound engine!

Sounds like a good approach to me. Buy for the best action your budget will allow. With VSTs you can tailor the sound to your liking. I don't have a stake in Pianoteq, but if you aren't aware they claim that version 8 is going to be brought to iOS soon.

If you use a decent quality open back headphone, I feel like this is even more true, because the onboard sound becomes irrelevant.

I used Pianoteq on PC many years ago, and I just heard that they’re possibly coming to iOS soon. I’m looking forward to it.

The FP-90x is currently at the top of my list. The price and portability makes it much more practical for me than the bigger console pianos, even though I am very allured by some of the nicer actions with longer keysticks. I’ve played the RD-2000 enough to know I’ll enjoy the action, but I haven’t been able to find an FP-90x in a showroom yet to hear it in person. The piano sound samples I’ve listened to aren’t super impressive, but I’m not super concerned about that.

One of the things I plan to do is connect my iPad and laptop and play around with all the newer piano VSTs that I’ve missed since being away from that world for about 10 years. Sadly Kawai pianos don’t work as USB audio interfaces, so you can’t pipe the VST output back into its onboard speakers. The Roland pianos all support this feature, as do I believe most or all Yamahas.

It's a matter of taste I guess. I had a Yamaha and switched to Roland and much prefer the chunkier key action and the slightly brighter/compressed piano tone. Definitely important to try it in store.

My absolute favourite is the Nord Grand, but it's a little too expensive.

Ooo, yeah, I saw one of those, didn't get to listen to it. It does seem like it would totally be about taste and preference.

Was really pleasurable, also wistful, taking my son to try them out. We could just hang out in this large room in a retail store in the middle of NYC for a few hours, he just playing whatever was there. Sometimes other kids would drop in too. That kind of relaxed vibe now incredibly rare.

And though I can hear and feel the music, I can't make it, never learned. Don't have time and space to do it now. Really glad he is getting it into his brain at a young age.

I believe the Nord Grand uses Kawai’s Responsive Hammer III action, which is also on the much cheaper (and excellent!) Kawai ES920 portable digital piano.

Yep - https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2986123/n...

You could go Kawai VPC-1 which is just the controller, and then connect it via MIDI to whatever you like. That way, you get a wooden action without paying for the sound engine (I've got my VCP-1 connected to a CP Reface):

https://kawaius.com/technology/wooden-key-actions/

The Reface CP is amazing isn't it!

I looked up the VPC-1 and while I probably would pay a bit more just to have speakers and a sound engine - the weight difference is interesting. It's 29.5kg for the VPC-1 vs. 17.0kg for the ES920!

The VPC-1's weight is, from what I can tell, reasonable given the action it uses. Its bizarrely named "RM3II action" is much closer to the Grand Feel action they put in their high-end digital uprights than to normal portable digital piano actions. Also, the ES920 is significantly lighter than its competitors.

yeah, it's heavy. I had it on my desk, and the desk started buckling so it's now on a stand

To be honest, the CP is really nice. There's also a hidden piano if you move the knob in between two values and then power cycle :)

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