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Comment by Tepix | Hacker News Reader

In fact it would be interested to compare all sorts of toilets under this aspect. Perhaps there is one that is superior.

On the other hand it's interesting not just to see water particles flying through the room but perhaps also where they are coming from. If you design a toilet that sucks everything out first (without a splash) and the rapidly replenishes the water (in a splashy fashion), the percentage of pathogens might be much lower.

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In the US, commercial toilets like the one tested do not have lids. Probably for ease of maintenance and (most likely) a misguided notion that not having a lid is more hygienic and easier to clean. These are toilets found in office buildings, shopping centers, airports, etc.

Anybody know if commercial toilets in UK and EU tend to have lids?

Not sure about UK but EU at least tends to have fully enclosed stalls (no gaps above, below, or between the partitions) in public restrooms which should hopefully reduce aerosol spread.

In the UK we usually have lids, unless it's been vandalised.

In France, I generally don't see lids on public toilets. In fact, its pretty common to see toilets without seats---vandalized or perhaps removed for maintenance, I'm not sure. (Maybe someone French has an idea why the seats are often missing/removed?)

It's actually cultural, lid and seat presence varies all over the world.

Prepare to be amazed:

Toilets of the World

https://toilet-guru.com/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20505602

(2019; 266 points, 190 comments)

For example, in some places this is normal and acceptable / desirable: https://toilet-guru.com/pictures/greece-kastraki-dscf1764.jp...

> In fact it would be interested to compare all sorts of toilets under this aspect. Perhaps there is one that is superior.

You could also just close the lid before you flush?

Lids must remain up always. For family peace, I removed the lid completely.

What?

How's using the lid a controversial thing at all?

The commenter is likely snarking about living with a female (or females). Some can be, er, particular about the toilet lid.

(Yes, the solution here is to put the lid back up when done, but then that ruins a bit of the GP's (I think) intended humor.)

You're thinking of the seat, not the lid. Although women are wrong about this. The standard should be a single seat manipulation per urinary event. That's the only fair way to do it. Why should the men manipulate the seat twice and women never?

If your goal is to minimize pathogens transferred from seat to hand, you can think of the man's second seat manipulation as "zero cost" in the sense that their hand is already contaminated and they'll need to wash thoroughly

Man 2x, Woman 0x = 1 "contamination" cost incurred Man 1x, Woman 1x = 2 "contamination" cost incurred

This is an interesting view. Like anything else it's important to establish what the goals actually are.

Agreed, lid goes down prior to each flush. Guys raise the seat if they are standing up, otherwise anyone else using the toilet just needs to raise and lower the lid.

Yeah, this has long been my response to the stupid seat-up/seat-down controversy. Fine, lid's going down too. That way stuff can't get knocked or dropped in, and it reduces flush-spray, so it's better anyway.

No, two of the relationships I’ve been in have involved women who absolutely loathed if the lid was down, or if the seat was up. It had to be lid-up, seat-down at all times.

I had to teach my (female) partner to close the lid, too. She got it after a while.

Huh? You open the thing, sit down to do your business, then close it. It's two simple manipulations for everyone, and for civility.

Some men are learning to urinate sitting down. Think about it, if that toilet is sending aerosols into the air, what is your stream of urine doing as you stand distantly from the toilet? Also, if you've ever cleaned toilets then you know about the accuracy of anyone who insists on standing.

https://www.theunconventionalroute.com/men-pee-sitting-down/ or just search using terms like: men are learning to pee sitting down

I piss sitting down plenty and always have (sometimes I just want to sit and relax a bit, you know? Or sometimes you feel like you've got a fart in the mix but aren't entirely sure it won't be a shart, so you sit just to be safe) but I do find it doesn't quite empty me out as well. Standing's better, like, anatomically, for some reason.

Studies have shown that there is no difference for healthy adult males, but sitting is actually better for evacuation as you start to get an enlarged prostate (Roughly half of men over 50).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4106761/

Lovely, maybe I'm getting one of those way younger than I'm "supposed" to, LOL. I think the first time I noticed a (small, but non-zero) difference between the two was in my late 20s.

You still splash when sitting. You'd need to measure it to know what results in less aerosol exposure (particularly considering the distance-to-face factor), even though it probably doesn't matter anyway. And anyone who has ever cleaned toilets knows that the women's room is not a paradise of cleanliness.

Why do you want an open air toilet?

Just like rules are there to be followed, the lid is there to be closed. Ordnung muss sein.

Yes rules must be adhered to, and removing the lid ensures compliance with correct rules.

You can, but closing the lid doesn't seal anything.

If you put the lid down before you flush to protect yourself from all the dirtiness, doesn’t that mean the lid (which you have to touch to put up/down) is itself extremely dirty?

> If you put the lid down before you flush to protect yourself from all the dirtiness, doesn’t that mean the lid (which you have to touch to put up/down) is itself extremely dirty?

The parts of the lid that you touch to raise and lower it are probably relatively distant from the parts of the lid that would receive the brunt of any splashback.

The part I touch to lower is the top of the lid, so relatively distant. But the part I touch to raise is the underside of the lid, at the edge. While it might not be in the most direct line-of-fire, I would expect it would actually get a decent amount of particles because it is adjacent to an air gap, where pressure would escape. But I'm no aerodynamicist — just speculating!

Why would you touch the underside of the lid to raise the it? You can't even reach the underside properly before you've opened the lid.

In any case, just use a piece of toilet paper to touch the lid, if you are concerned.

Remember to wash your hands.

That works as long as you don't touch anything after opening the lid, before washing. Like your phone, for example.

Or the door

Most of the spray will hit the broad inside of the lid.

When you move the lid, you only touch the outer rim at one or two places.

You can use a bit of toilet paper to protect your hands, and wash them afterwards, too.

There are no lids on squat toilets.

Toilets on trains (at least in Germany) work that way. Presumably because it cuts down on the amount of water necessary to flush, but may have other benefits as well.

...as do the facilities on commercial airplanes.

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