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Comment by Silverback_VII | Hacker News Reader

Ukraine is not allowed to choose its own alliances? Strangely it’s never Ukraine complaining about this, it’s always Russia and Russian apologists.

There is simply no future for European countries with a hostile Russia in the neighbourhood.

From the US perspective, the war and the nukes are far away but that's not the case in Europe...

Step 1. Make Russia hostile.

Taking defensive measures or creating new alliances for protection is not as hostile as invading a country. Especially after Crimea.

You're basically telling countries "If you try to prepare for war, we'll attack you. The best thing to do is be as unprepared as possible with as few allies"

  >You're basically telling countries "If you try to prepare for war, we'll attack you. The best thing to do is be as unprepared as possible with as few allies"

Glad to hear you support Iran's and North Korea's nuclear programmes.

So how do defensive nuclear weapons work?

You have a nuke, so people don't invade your territory for fear you might use it.

Cuba was not allowed to station Nuclear weapons right?

Who's stationing nuclear weapons anywhere? There is no need nor any will for that. It isn't 1962 anymore, modern missiles are intercontinental.

>>U.S.-owned nuclear weapons stored in five NATO member states across six bases: Kleine Brogel in Belgium, Büchel Air Base in Germany, Aviano and Ghedi Air Bases in Italy, Volkel Air Base in the Netherlands, and Incirlik in Turkey.

https://armscontrolcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/NAT...

And i don't even talk about "shields" that fire the nuclear competition until today.

>modern missiles are intercontinental.

No those are the old missiles, easy detectable starts and "lot's" of time for countermeasures.

Even if US/CIA did push a coup in Ukraine, Russia should have foreseen it and counter acted it. Intelligence operations is a thing and you can't start genociding just because you sucked at basic intelligence work in neighbouring countries.

   > Even if US/CIA did push a coup in Ukraine, Russia should have foreseen it and counter acted it.

They did, which is how they ended up taking Crimea.

Is there evidence of this coup?

FYI, the account that you are replying to has a very long track record of pushing this talking point (and other crank opinions), so do not think that you are engaging in a good faith discussion with someone who can be convinced (1) - if they could be, it would have happened long ago. They're here to push that opinion into the public sphere. That account was even banned from posting for a while (2), thankfully. Why it was allowed back, I do not know.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33679821

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32314627

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32990026

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32314574

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32323579

The word coup, which user "yucky" hasn't introduced in this conversation, is used informally and not in a literal sense. It does not mean that the U.S. installed a military junta.

It means that U.S. officials interfered in the Maidan revolution and picked favorites. How much influence they had is questionable, but they were there.

If you think that is a crank opinion, the BBC is a crank outlet.

> The word coup, which user "yucky" hasn't introduced in this conversation

That account has in fact introduced the word "coup" with reference to Ukraine, many times over in conversations. And you're right, it does carry with it the ugly, false and deceptive connotations of "installed a military junta against the wishes of the people".

Not to imply that they always "introduce" it. In fact, if you say it, they probably pop up like Beetlejuice for the opportunity to launch into the shpiel again. You are again correct that this conversation appears to be one of those times.

Assuming that you're asking this in good faith and would like to read more from reliable sources, here are a handful of them from across the political spectrum:

"Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call" - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

"The CIA And FBI Are Reportedly Advising Ukraine As Pro-Russia Separatists Spread Across The Country" - https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-and-fbi-reportedly-advis...

"Pierre Omidyar co-funded Ukraine revolution groups with US government, documents show" - https://pandodaily.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-u...

Our use of CIA/State Dept Tech Camp to help foment revolution, video posted by US embassy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpIoBUDuL3U (also see this for background on how we use the program elsewhere: https://www.fastcompany.com/1744389/hillary-clintons-senior-...

"Washington Was Behind Ukraine Coup: Obama admits that US “Brokered a Deal” in Support of “Regime Change”" - https://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-was-behind-ukraine-...

"How and why the U.S. Government Perpetrated the 2014 Coup in Ukraine" - https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-go...

"In the rapidly worsening Ukraine fiasco, the U.S. is reaping exactly what it sowed" - https://www.salon.com/2022/02/02/in-the-rapidly-worsening-uk...

"A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War" - https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia...

"The 2014 coup in Ukraine" - https://www.wsws.org/en/topics/event/2014-coup-ukraine

"The United States Is Reaping What It Sowed in Ukraine" - https://progressive.org/latest/us-reaping-sowed-in-ukraine-b...

"Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault" - https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-t...

5 days ago, same repetitive junk pushing the same deceptive political take: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33681030

Rather than stalking my comments which is against the rules of this site, you could instead just reply to the content of the sources I provided. They are legitimate and credible. If you dispute any of the actual content, please cite and provide sources and reasons.

There is no point in giving good faith rebuttals in reply to rhetoric that wasn't good faith and seeking understanding in the first place. A different user summed that up earlier, I think in three words.

I started on another thread here

I respect you for doing the work, and you should definitely keep a copy for next time, but it is pretty much what I expected: the "balanced start" from "across the political spectrum" is expected to impress us into nodding along, and never to hold up to close inspection. Which of course it does not. It's the bullshit asymmetry principle at work: even if you do refute, you have been bogged down wasting time defending on that.

It is a confidence trick, as the idea that a popular uprising against an unpopular government "must be the US's fault" is inherently laughable, even before we saw how hard the Ukrainian people have since fought to keep what they won then.

> "sugar words" to entice you to believe them. George Soros, Hillary Clinton, Q, Pax Americana, deep forces, dark forces 2

Ah. I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that it's that basic.

Will you convince the parent poster? Of course not. Here they are 7-8 months ago, banging the same drum:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30880343

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30651712

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30624560

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30677945

This is why debating this account is a waste of time. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

How did the US interfere in Ukraine? They already lost part of their country in a previous war with Russia and now when they seek alliances with the US you think that's being forced upon them? It's most logical thing to do and has proven correct since Putin invaded again.

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