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Comment by bheadmaster | Hacker News Reader

Sure. I'm not saying mothers should keep their children under a glass bell until adulthood. When (slightly older) children start abusing their crying for attention, they should absolutely not be (completely) indulged.

But we're talking about infants here. I seriously doubt that infants are crying because they want to be entertained (as implied by "crying gets me attention") - I think that they cry because they are f-cking scared. Yes, they want attention - the same way that a person stuck in a dark alleyway with a gang of thugs wants the attention of a police officer.

Or am I missing something here?

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I am going to guess you don't have children. I may be wrong, but I would be shocked that a parent would hold these beliefs. When you have an infant it is plain to see how infants use behaviors from the past that get them the results they want. That is what infants do. They are exploring the causal graph. Not to say they never cry because they are scared, or hungry or a myriad of other things. The manner and duration of crying are things a parent can pick up on and your goal is to give the child what they need, not just what they want. It is an arms race!

I am going to guess you never took a minute to check the development a human brain undergoes. It takes month until the human brain can form basic memories. Until then only things that they can actually see, exist. Understanding that consequences exist take another couple of month. Using them to their advantage consciously is a mental stunt infants can for sure not do. Seeing it as a correlation in these things is highly likely your human brain trying to rationalize the often irrational behavior of infants.

PS. I don’t want to imply your kids where not able to do such things. It would be a rare behavior though. PPS. Father of at least one

Yes I think people that don't have children don't understand how smart and manipulative infants can be in certain areas from a very very young age (3-4 months old), while at the same time being horribly stupid and incompetent in others.

But getting attention from their parents is one of the areas they are very advanced!

I do have a kid and I'm pretty sure children aren't manipulative at all at 3-4 months old. They just operate on immediate needs and instinct. Manipulative behavior starts at around 1 year old, beliefs of small infants being manipulative are typically just projection (you feel angry because your baby wakes you up every 2 hours, so you think it's manipulating you, and that makes you feel better about being so angry).

Of course they are good at getting attention, but that's because they need attention. That's why nature gave them the ability to cry surprisingly loud from the moment they're born.

Perhaps the 4 month old is not "manipulative" per se, but it also cannot be argued that the kid is doing much of a cost-benefit analysis as to whether it's worth waking Mom and Dad up for this (whim/legitimate need).

Thank you for pointing this out. I hope your honest and direct response opens the eyes of some of the people in this discussion to rethink whether their 4 months old is manipulative or is simply scared of being alone…

Sorry to say. But this is not true in most cases! Manipulative thinking requires a sense of fully empathy which kids do not develop until they are 3 years old or even older! If a 3 months old is „manipulating“ you it was pure coincidence!

i have kids and i agree 100% with the comment by bheadmaster

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