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Comment by jimbru | Hacker News Reader

For anyone interested in L. Reuteri, you can buy it in the U.S. as Gerber probiotic drops (https://medical.gerber.com/products/supplements/soothe-colic...). Marketed for babies but obviously works on adults too. Last I checked Gerber had an exclusive license on U.S. distribution of this bacterium—there’s a Swedish company, BioGaia, that IIRC is the original patent holder.

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This probiotic at Costco also has reuteri, “trunature Advanced Digestive Probiotic”. 15$ per 100 caps https://www.costco.com/trunature-advanced-digestive-probioti...

also costco has "garden of life" probiotics with it too

That's correct for BioGaia. In Europe, it is rather easy to buy.

"BioGaia Gastrus" contains 2 strains of L. Reuteri (DSM 17938 and ATCC PTA 6475)

I crush the tablets to make yogurt following Dr. Davis recipe in SuperGut [1]

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Super-Gut-Four-Week-Reprogram-Microbi...

I have questions, please.

How long have you been eating the yoghurt? Do you use any other tablets/pills/etc to make it? Why make the yoghurt instead of just eating the pills? What do you think it's done for you?

>>> How long have you been eating the yoghurt? About 3-4 months now

>>> Do you use any other tablets/pills/etc to make it? No, but there are other recipes in the book than combine different bacteria

>>> Why make the yoghurt instead of just eating the pills? To increase bacterial count; often like x1000 (from millios to billions)

>>> What do you think it's done for you? I did not take it for any particular reason, so I was not expecting much. Most definetively, improved mood after 3 weeks.

Why can you patent a naturally occurring bacteria?

You usually patent the use of such bacteria, not the bacteria per se.

The strain itself (and its specific genome) can be patented. Not as it's found "in the wild", but with genetic modification. The thing is this "genetic modification" includes not just techniques like CRISPR, but also just letting the bacteria mutate in a vat.

I think it's total nonsense, but the law allows it. If wild bacteria growing on your skin happens to mutate into the exact same genetic code as a patented strain, you could technically be in infringement.

[1] https://internationalprobiotics.org/focus-on-probiotic-paten...

Even still, why would such a patent be useful? Couldnt competitors just sell the generic version?

They can and do. But if you pay for a bunch of lab/clinical research with a specific strain you get to say it’s the one that’s actually been tested.

Is it possible to introduce this to the body without buying it specifically? Or put another way, how did people get L. Reuteri without pharmaceutical/supplement companies growing it in labs?

It is found all over the place in nature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limosilactobacillus_reuteri

> It appears to be essentially ubiquitous in the animal kingdom, having been found in the gastrointestinal tracts and feces of healthy humans,[7] sheep, chickens,[8] pigs,[9] and rodents.[10] It is the only species to constitute a "major component" of the Lactobacillus species present in the gut of each of the tested host animals,[11] and each host seems to harbor its own specific strain of L. reuteri.[10][12] It is possible that L. reuteri contributes to the health of its host organism in some manner.[13]

The labs got it from nature, not the other way around.

The article says breast milk is one source. Don’t wean your babies to formula too early!

You can buy breast milk from lactating mothers on Craigslist. Good luck.

Breast milk is inherently sterile (unless the mother has a severe bacterial infection). It usually gets contaminated with the skin microbiota during feeding.

So no, I wouldn't count on L. reuteri being found in a random sample of breast milk.

Breast milk is not sterile.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2643565/

That's hotly debated. Even the study you cite cannot rule out skin contamination.

But unequivocally showing the existence of entero-mammary pathway (translocation of maternal gut bacteria from the gut to the mammary glands) would be very exciting news indeed.

In the context of this conversation, does it matter whether the cause is skin contamination or not?

Yes, because if you are buying breast milk from a woman who used a breast pump, then the skin contamination is very very little compared to actual breast suckling.

A seller:

https://cosprings.craigslist.org/hab/d/colorado-springs-brea...

So you're telling me I should actually be drinking all of this e-girl bath water I bought?

The article says that L. reuteri is present in other places in the body besides the gut.

You can get HIV from breast milk, it's not sterile.

HIV is an infectious virus. Also, bacteria in milk is usually a sign of mastitis. I'm explicitly talking about healthy mothers.

> Breast milk is inherently sterile

There is nothing sterile in the human body. Not even the brain.

You've put more confidence in your statement than the scientific consensus allows.

A brain microbiome is hotly debated, no concrete proof (yet?). I personally also have a hard time believing in a healthy bacterial blood microbiota, but it's also proposed.

I know lactos are in the environment naturally. When I ferment peppers or other vegetables I lightly rinse them to make sure some bacteria is left. Eating raw fruits and vegetables would certainly pass some bacteria to the gut.

Labs usually get them from bacterial strain collections, e.g https://www.atcc.org/search#q=lactobacillus%20reuteri&sort=r...

They know someone who knows someone who swears their cousin had the best kefir, or a proper “Tibetan mushroom” complex. Supplement companies aren’t the devil.

Thanks, I came to ask this. It seems like the probiotic market is largely a hit or miss. Reviews online are filled with people claiming their purchases failed milk culturing tests (I don't know if testing as such even works), claims that these bacteria can't survive on warehouse shelves, etc.

That’s why Visbiome ships in insulated packaging with ice packs. There’s even a color indicator that turns red if the contents exceed a temperature during shipping (and refunds are granted if this indicator is red when it receive the product). You then store in the freezer. Unfortunately, the product does not contain L. Reuteri.

Have you used it? Are you satisfied?

I used it for six months. I have UC. It did not help my symptoms one bit, ufortunately. I heard they changed the formula :/

Nowadays I just eat kimchi and kraut and hope for the best.

Yes I use it regularly. But I don’t have IBS, Crohns, or any other GI disorder. I use it to periodically populate my gut. So to answer “am I satisfied” is difficult. I don’t notice a difference with or without it, because none of us are consciously aware of our gut micro biome. I could say “well I haven’t been sick in years”, but who knows what else contributes to that.

> none of us are consciously aware of our gut micro biome

The chronically ill are. I know people who feel when they don't have their Danone.

You mean the ones on Amazon are fake?

The patent is for a particular strain that was used in experiments. I don't know how likely it is that closely related but unpatented strains that you can buy from different companies have a different effect.

> You mean the ones on Amazon are fake?

That’s unheard of!

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