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Comment by bigmattystyles | Hacker News Reader

Who can blame them; asides from low pay, two things stick with me; many of our friends are teachers, when we get together and there are a couple of drinks, if a photo is taken the teachers in the group reflexively hide their drink out of sight. They’re afraid it might be used against them by parents or a hostile school administration. I had a friend who was wearing something low cut and asked me not to post a group photo for the same reason. That feels like such a violation and outrageous that teachers have to live like nuns in their private lives. The other, lack of respect or deference. My kid knows his teacher’s first name. That’s just weird to me for some reason.

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Male teachers have their own set of challenges: https://jakeseliger.com/2014/09/08/why-dont-more-men-go-into... that likely dissuade many from entering the field.

> Yet that person can’t forma genuine connection without being able to spend at least some one-on-one time with some students.

I don't understand this sentence. I'm from Germany but I don't remember a single time I've had any kind of one-on-one input from any teacher. Been a while that I went to school, but even if I take all my Hollywood High School impressions as fact.. our school system is just so different - my time at school was 8am to 1pm for most of my 13 (regular) years.

If I follow your reasoning none of us Germans was ever compelled to anything. I'd say it's totally possible to form a bond with teachers (or vice versa) - maybe it's more about smaller class groups (as we have in the last 2 years, only 10-15 people instead of the usual 25-30)

// edit: This is not about your overall point here, but I feel this is a key argument that is worth debating on its own

This would definitely factor into my decision if I was considering entering the profession in 2022.

Why is it weird to know your teachers first name?

To me it seems absurd not to know your teachers first name.

Growing up in Australia, calling a teacher by their first name as a student was incredibly disrespectful and worthy of being sent to the principal if done repeatedly. This often resulted in students never learning their teachers’ given names. Generally, adults—teachers or otherwise—expected to be called by their title and surname, and would likely correct a kid if addressed wrongly.

I rarely see kids out and about at all these days, and if they are, I never see them interacting with adults other than buying take-away. It’s a bit concerning, really.

> Growing up in Australia, calling a teacher by their first name as a student was incredibly disrespectful and worthy of being sent to the principal if done repeatedly

Same in US. I have been out of school for a long time, but this was definitely was not something you did without consequences.

Where I'm from in the US, I agree that it was very disrespectful to use a teacher's first name, though I don't feel like that made it a secret. I think I knew most of my teacher's first names.

I had the same thing (also Australia), but it was common for us to know what the teacher's name was even if we didn't use it.

It's similar for military officers. They're expected to uphold high moral standards on and off duty. They're also held responsible for their kids' behavior.

It goes double when stationed in a foreign country. Officers and their families were required to behave as guests there.

Source: I'm an Air Force brat.

Military officers and diplomats are pretty well compensated and have perks which include almost everything paid for. And also not having to deal with little kids creating havoc. Teachers have to deal with low pay, little benefits and being judged in their personal lives. Pretty much an awful deal.

Education in our modern knowledge based meritocratic society is LITERALLY a matter of life or death. An entire person's future is decided at age 12. Get sent to the wrong high school and it has impact on your life expectancy FFS.

And yet teachers are chronically underpaid and underappreciated.

> An entire person's future is decided at age 12

Don't overstate your case.

> little benefits

Public school teachers get likely the best benefits package of any profession.

Teacher pay in the Seattle area is up into the 6 figures.

As for military officer pay, it's enough to finance a lower to middle class lifestyle.

What does "up into the 6 figures" mean?

If I read https://www.seattleschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Ce... correctly then indeed experienced non-supervisory teachers may make over $100K/year.

But if you're really considering the maximum, then military officer pay is up into the $200K range, says https://www.federalpay.org/military#officer .

If "6 figures" is supposed to be average or median, https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-scho... says "The average Public School Teacher salary in Seattle, WA is $60,126 as of June 28, 2022, but the range typically falls between $50,222 and $73,312", with the 90-percentile at $85K.

https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/finance/Budget/cu... says :

> For the 2021-22 school year, a teacher in Seattle Public Schools costs approximately $131,525. This includes base salary, time responsibility incentive (TRI), contract days, tech days, medical, and other benefits.

> Specific details include: Average Salary Total: $79,673 / Medical insurance: $12,212 / Other Benefits, and Payroll & Pension Taxes: $39,640 / Total Cost: $131,525

So that's 6 figures if you include all benefits.

But military officers also have other benefits besides salary, like VA services for life, housing, and commissary access.

As for "best benefits package of any profession", ... really? Better than, say, college president?

And all those benefits come from at most $51,852/year on average?

We software developers ("The average Software Developer salary is $70,497 as of June 28, 2022, but the salary range typically falls between $62,812 and $78,654." - https://www.salary.com/research/salary/recruiting/software-d...) have a higher salary than Seattle-area teachers.

Why are our benefits worse, and what can we do to make them better?

You brought up software developers, and only mentioned salary. Again, talking salary without value of the benefits package is very incomplete and misleading.

Software developers don't get pensions for life, for example.

> college president?

Are there "entry level" positions for college presidents? Of course not. It's not really considered a category of profession.

Again, what does "up into the 6 figures" mean for both teacher and military officer pay?

Because I am unable to find a source for total benefits for software developer. Microsoft, as another Seattle-area company, offers 50% matching contributions to 401(k), stock and cash bonuses, child daycare accounts, life insurance, public transit card, and more. But other companies will differ.

Do you have any better numbers? You must have some idea, in order to judge that software developers have worse benefits than Seattle public school teachers.

A lot of government employees get pensions like public school teachers do, so what else do teachers have which makes it likely the best benefits package of any profession? What am I missing?

Since stock options, 50% matching to 401(k), etc are worse than what teachers get, what do software developers need to do to get a piece of that sweet pension benefit?

Negotiate better? Start a union? Get laws passed? Start online discussions about the poor benefits in software development?

The teacher union salaries + benefits are not sustainable. They're a gigantic problem for state governments, and there's a huge overhang of unfunded pension benefits that keeps getting kicked down the road.

While other government employee salaries + benefits are sustainable and funded?

What additional benefits do teachers get that make them so special?

Nothing stands out when I compare the teacher pension and state patrol pension at https://www.drs.wa.gov/plan/ .

Military officer pay is up into the 6 figures. Their pension is "monthly annuity for life after 20 years of service. The annuity is based on a calculation of 2% per year served." (https://www.usa.gov/military-pay ) which is what TRS-2 does (https://www.drs.wa.gov/plan/trs2/ ) for Washington teachers. Plus veterans get VA access and other benefits.

I don't see what makes teachers' benefits so special.

Except the all-pervasive surveillance system used to enforce these "moral standards" on teachers was not only non-existent before 2008 or so -- but (up through the 90s) basically unthinkable.

"Thinkable" in science fiction, yes -- but not as something that could emerge, full force, in actual day-to-day reality.

I'd add business leaders who aren't Elon Musk.

I guess it’s culture and generational thing but when I was in high school in the early 00s a teacher sharing their first name was a form of building mutual respect.

When I was at school, the full names of teachers were available. I think even in some kind of display cabinet on site and also in the school's official yearbook. Endof the 90s though, so before anyone cared about privacy :P (This is Germany btw, land of Google Maps blurring)

Students in Sweden use the teacher's first name. Today it is uncommon to hear people use proper titles.

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