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Comment by pembrook | Hacker News Reader

The idea that someone would switch to the Windows (or linux) ecosystem because of some visual tweaks to MacOS settings is very amusing to me.

For example, have you ever used the system settings panel in Windows? It’s the most confusing, horrible, and neglected part of the OS. For like 15 years they had mashed together settings panels from different versions of Windows without even bothering to make them visually consistent. Ditto for a lot of Linux distros.

I think you’re overthinking it. MacOS has barely changed at all in last 20 years from a UI perspective compared to Windows. Upgrading from an 8 year old intel model to an M1/M2 model is going to feel like strapping on a jetpack.

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"Upgrading from an 8 year old intel model to an M1/M2 model is going to feel like strapping on a jetpack."

i did just that, and it simply felt "normal" again after years of increased slowdowns on every macOS update without any noticeable big improvement to the UX.

The bloat is real.

No. My MacBook Pro is a 2012 pre retina with a decent Samsung evo SSD and 16GB RAM. It has a OCLP’d Monterey install and it is smooth and functional.I dev on this machine and honestly, same hardware runs MacOS better than Windows 10 (212H iirc) in Bootcamp. This is VS Mac building Mac Catalyst, Android and iOS apps. Building my pet PSP tool chain for .Net and Retro68 GCC port for BeOS PowerPC. Nothing trivial.

This is my conjecture, too. M1 is fast, but only because MacOS is ludicrously slow. Apple has their hardware figured out right now, but their software experience keeps me away from using MacOS

I think you're just getting used to the M1.

There's only been 1-2 major macOS releases since the M1 launch and benchmarks have gotten faster during that time. There's simply been no "years of increased slowdowns".

> There's only been 1-2 major macOS releases since the M1 launch

Consider that the "years of increased slowdowns" probably referred to the years before the M1 was released a year or two ago. Which would make sense, as the comparison was pre-M1 vs post-M1.

Again, the benchmarks for M1 have gotten faster by macOS release, so my comment is entirely within the scope of what OP was saying.

The rest is irrelevant to the point.

> The idea that someone would switch to the Windows (or linux) ecosystem because of some visual tweaks to MacOS settings is very amusing to me.

That wasn't even the gripe. They have disliked the last few major revisions of macOS. I think that's a good enough reason to consider a switch.

Spending a week on Windows will help provide some perspective… it’s hard to remember just how bad things can get when you’re spoiled by MacOS for so long.

I am not too happy with the direction macOS is moving towards, though I do understand Apple’s motivations and agree it is still better than Windows. For reference: been a Mac user ever since I was like 10 years old or so, starting with System 6.0.

I do feel some Linux or perhaps a BSD system with a GUI like WindowMaker might feel like an improvement at this point.

It’s something I will probably try in the coming year.

Just curious how you would describe in a couple sentences what that direction feels to you

Apple's OS is becoming more and more secure and while I understand this makes sense for the average user, it brings many annoyances. Also from a developer perspective (notarisation, having to jump through hoops to install software from 'untrusted sources', etc...). This is my biggest annoyance with macOS at this point.

I'd like to have a system that is 'less secure' in which I feel I have more control over my system.

Also it seems Apple is moving apps included in macOS to be more in line with iOS, which is not really something I like to see. It will likely dumb down app functionality.

I think you expressed my feelings as well quite accurately. Dumbing down + adding more (unfortunately somewhat necessary on a mainstream platform) annoyances and hoops.

I used OS X exclusively from 2008 onward, and I switched fully to linux late last year. I managed to make the switch tolerable by learning and falling in love with tiling window managers and minimal desktop environments that are available on linux. I could never stand 'traditional' desktop environments on linux, they always felt so clunky. With Sway (or i3 on my desktop), the operating system just disappears out of sight. All I see is what I want. A little bar with information and system status, a browser window, a bloated text messaging program or two, and heaps of terminals. Really fast, too, unlike macOS.

My work provides me with a Surface to do my thing. I get to experience both. With that birds-eye view, I can decide that none of my money gets spent on Windows. Xbox, sure. Windows, pfft.

If I switch to Framework I will run Linux on it.

> It’s the most confusing, horrible, and neglected part of the OS.

The worst part is: It's not even neglected. It's been undergoing constant changes, and while they're mostly for the better, the constant stream of changes really highlights how poorly thought out it was in the first place, and makes finding anything an exercise in frustration.

>> makes finding anything an exercise in frustration

That's what I use Spotlight for. Years ago someone pointed that use of Spotlight out to me and I've been using it that way ever since. No longer have to pull up System Preferences and I can find any setting I need immediately.

> For like 15 years they had mashed together settings panels from different versions of Windows without even bothering to make them visually consistent.

Closer to 30 years actually - there are many configuration dialogs which have been virtually or entirely unchanged since their first appearance.

I've been using Macs for nearly 30 years, and over the past few years, I've been switching to Linux, at leasat for personal stuff. At work, I sill try to avoid Windows (and the crappy work-issued Dell hardware). There's definitely a feeling that new Mac development from Apple is more a thing to dread than to look forward to.

Looking forward to the day when Linux becomes the de facto OS that MS and Apple look up to for inspiration.

MacOS seems to be slowly morphing into Gnome.

Its new settings looks like Windows 11.

And that is the sad state of things, it isn't macOS ( old or new ) is perfect, but neither Windows or Linux Distro seems to be trying to compete.

wow - pick a terrible choice because there is only one other choice that is worse.. really?

MacOS has changed dramatically in the last 3 years alone. This isn’t just UI tweaks, although those are annoying. I have daily driven MacOS for 10 years now. It’s no longer serviceable.

Specifics? I’m not saying you’re wrong — different use cases are different use cases — but I just don’t see anything in the last three releases that changed it enough to make it unserviceable for any previously suitable use case.

Been using macOS/OSX for work since 2010 or 2011. It seems basically the same to me, aside from a couple performance-enhancing releases that really did improve things noticeably. And better/smoother interoperation with iOS and iCloud. I don't see any big differences.

iOS, that's changed a lot. Could we move back toward iOS 6? I still miss it.

I’ve used OSX on Intel since Leopard (10.5), though I have a Jaguar (10.2), Panther (10.3) install on my old PowerBook and Tiger (10.4) on my G4 Mac Mini, and small things changed, but on the whole the OS is the same. I mean, Aqua style changed massively between 10.2 and 10.5, so there are arguments that the UI might have seemed better to some pre Intel. For me, Spotlight, Exposé and Spaces made a massive difference and that is what I miss most when I have to do something on a legacy install. Even Tiger is painful to use because of missing Spaces and Exposé.

I use Monterey at the moment on my main Mac and it’s absolutely fine.

Tiger has Exposé, it was introduced in Panther.

Possibly the lack of spaces? I use Exposé mostly to organise my spaces these days. I use older OSX less and less as PowerPC is only useful to developing the retro68 port. Since I got Sorbet Leopard on the G4 it also hardly boots Tiger.

The one big core OS thing that's changed by my reckoning— and I don't even believe it was within the last three releases— is the hoop jumps required to run unsigned code. I honestly don't see a problem with the move because they do provide a path to execute it when you need to, but it could probably be a little more straightforward.

I don't use music, but whenever I connect a bluetooth audio device, it opens. You can't disable it without disabling SIP.

Just tried this with a pair of AudioTechnica headphones and an Insigia bluetooth speaker and couldn't reproduce it. Tried regular already-paired connections and removing/pairing. Maybe it's driver-specific with something you're using?

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